Help ! Two dogs = Too much !!

[Ushi]

Hello, I will start (as I see most people have) with introducing myself and giving a little background information:

I am from Australia - I own a 2 year old Shar Pei Female, and a 9 month old Shar Pei Male. I will start with a little information on the female first (as she came) long first...

Ushi is quite a dominent female. When I brang her home, she was here 4 ays before breaking the bone in her albow(how this happened is still a mystery I had dog proofed the yard, but came home to a poor little sore puppy) This meant that we missed our puppy school classes, as she had to have the ablow pinned, and it was imperitive that she was kept still for 10 weeks. During her healing time I did basic training with her, using treats - just sit, come, drop, watch me - using food as a reward. Once we got the all clear from the vet, I started socialising her, taking her in car rides, down to the horse paddock with me (on a lead) and to the dog park. She was always very good with other dogs, and enjoyed playing. We had a few bad incidents with other dogs biting her when she was on the lead - which resulted in her being very untrusting of other dogs arounf her when she was on the lead - she would bark, pull and become qite defensive (never biting to my knowledge) so we always made sure that greating were done in safe off leash areas with ither dogs, and she was fine. I did a basic obedience course with her (positive reinforcement style training) she did quite well with the training, but we had difficulty with barkeing and growling at the other dogs because she was on the lead. All was pretty much ok, we continued with trips to the beach and bush walks on the weekends, leash walks during the week (I work full time) we lived with a friend who also had a dog- however, he was older and bigger and a male - and she was bottom of the pack. Anyway- the real trouble started when I had to move away for family reasons and she was on her own. She did not like being left alone, and she barked and stressed terribly, so after much thought, my partner and I decided to get her a friend (along comes Zepher - the little male shar pei) we got him from the same kennels - but, I am embarrsed to admit- chose him sight unseen- and had him shipped down, as I knew the breeders from when I got Ushi, and I was very happy with there breeding practice and health/temprement of Ushi. Well, the two dogs are chalk and cheese, they are totally different types to look at, and are also very different temprement wise, Zephyr is quite timid and skittish, where Ushi s very bold and confrontational. Thankfully, these two get along very very well, they are best of friends and we have not had a single issue with the two of them together, having a companion solved Ushis loneliness while we are at work.
Now is when the real fun started tho. When they are together, and I try to take them on a walk, or to the park (or anywhere except inside the house) we have nothing but trouble. They dont listen- they run off together and dont come back when called until they want to. When they are on the leash they pull and pull, (Ushi does not pull when walked alone, Zephyr does not walk on the leash at all, he pulls all the time, and just runs from your side until the leash is tight, side to side- everywhere... he has the attention span of a finch !!) Then, to make things worse, if they see another dog, Ushi charges, and barks and growls (has not bitten) at the other dog. her bark is very loud, and she really scares the other dog. I am not strong enough to hold them both on the lead, so I can no longer walk them together, I can no longer take them to the beach or the park or up the bush, as if we see another dog, Ushi goes crazy barking. They have pulled me over numerous times, and today, Zephyr escaped and we had to search for him for ages- as he ran off with another dogs (who was roaming around loose) I managed to hold ushi and take her insuide the house, and Zephyr thankfully came home - but it should nto have happened. I am embarressed I cannot control my dogs. I try and do training, but because there are two of them, I need somebody to take one away why I train the other, wheich means it does not happen often enough. Ushi is still pretty good on her own in most situations - except if there is another dog (which is a problem now even when she is alone) and Zephyr is only able to concentrate on me insude the house, the moment I take him outside he is distracted, adn not even food will bring his focus to me. Al he wants to do is run and chase anything that moves !

We have moved to a 10 acre rural property - which (unfortunately) is boarded by a mature trail where people walk there dogs all the time - this means I cannot leave my dogs outside alone - or off leash ever for fear of them scaring or running off with other dogs.

I really dont know what to do. I am thinking I should get a trainer to come to our house and help. I want to enrol them into obedience school - but I am scared to take Ushi anywhere now. - Ohh.... I forgot to mention- we could not take Zephyr to puppy school because he had very bad entropian and a puppy litter injury (scratch) to his cornea which has meant he has had 3 surgeries - so we did not feel ok to take him to puppy school until he was healed - unfortunately he has very poor vision in one eye

Well... thats the short and long of it. I am sure I have left plenty out.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated. I really love my dogs, they are probably too spoilt, they live inside, sleep on the bed, and cuddled and pampered and I just want the best for them, but circumstances are making our life with them much harder than it should be, I know its my fault... but I am not sure where to start to fix this !

[Mattie]

I really love my dogs, they are probably too spoilt, they live inside, sleep on the bed, and cuddled and pampered and I just want the best for them, but circumstances are making our life with them much harder than it should be, I know its my fault... but I am not sure where to start to fix this !

You are not alone, many of us here have dogs that sleep on the bed and are cuddled and pampered, many are rescues who came with problems but they are still making tremendous progress on their behaviour and obedience so don't worry about this.

You need to walk and train your dogs seperately, the day will eventually come when you will be able to walk them together but that is in the distant future.

First thing to do is open a bottle of wine and chill, then search for all the posts on dominance, Ushi isn't trying to be in charge, she is frightened of other dogs which is why she is reacting to them. You can turn this round by keeping at a distance where she can see other dogs but doesn't react, once she is reacting it is too late to take action as you have found out. Teach her to "Watch me", in fact teach it to both of them, it is a very useful thing to teach. Always put yourself between her and the other dogs but letting her see them. Ushi needs to realise that you will protect her. Do a search for dog aggression and you will see how others have worked with their dogs to solve this problem.

You need to teach Zephry to walk on a loose lead, have a look at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=858, it does work as others will testify. Think of his walks in time not distance because at first you will be going up and down the same path, this will gradually get longer as he gets better. There is also quite a lot of successes with this if you look in the success stories.

You also need to teach them a good recall, again search, there are quite a lot of posts on this, I always teach this using a long line clipped to a harness, apart from my little girl I have had 7 weeks all my dogs have good recalls and Dolly has made a lot if improvement even though I could have killed her this morning when she escaped and insisted on playing with another dog.

I am embarressed I cannot control my dogs

.

Don't be, dogs think for themselves and none are 100%, I couldn't control Dolly this morning.

I try and do training, but because there are two of them, I need somebody to take one away why I train the other, wheich means it does not happen often enough.

I have 3 of my dogs inside my house while I train one outside, I live on my own so there is nobody I can leave my dogs with, all you have to do is to seperate your dogs so you can train one, it can be behind a closed door or gate or in a crate.

We have moved to a 10 acre rural property - which (unfortunately) is boarded by a mature trail where people walk there dogs all the time - this means I cannot leave my dogs outside alone - or off leash ever for fear of them scaring or running off with other dogs.

Personnally I wouldn't leave my dogs outside if there is nobody there anyway, but having this trail is an ideal situation to get Ushi used to dogs. You can sit at a distance from it where she doesn't react, as a dog goes past rain very high reward treats, don't throw them at her but in front, she will soon start to look at you for the treats when she sees a dog. As she gets better you can go closer to the trail.

It would also help if you could give us a run down on their normal day, food, exercise, training etc, the more information we have the better we can help. You have a lot of reading to do but it will give you a better idea on how to solve your problems and seeing others successes it will encourage you.

Good luck and stay with us, we can help you but you do have quite a lot of work to do.

[Ushi]

Thanks so much for your encouragement... I will ensure to get into some of that reading!! From reading other posts, I saw that this was a forum with peole who "love" there dogs, which is why I decided to post here for help. I am not interested in any training method that is not kind to my 'kids'

I have tried loose lead training with Zephyr doing the turning around thing, but it doesnt seem to matter if I do it for 20 minute straight, going up and down the same stretch of ground, he still continues to pull, it doesnt make the smallest difference. I have tried with a little more success getting him to sit everytime he gets ahead of me - but this only works in an enviroment he is not distracted, the moment he gets distracted he wont even sit (altho last night I had them both sitting for me on our walk- however, its dark- so they cant see much!)

I have only called Ushi dominent now as she was fine with other dogs (off leash, I was aware of her fear on the leash) before we got Zephyr, prior to having him she was happy to play with other dogs off the lead, now the minute she sees another dog she runs at it and will not stop barking and jumping on it ! (yet if I take her to the beach on her own... she is perfect!) Ushi is the sort of dog to run and confront everything (visitors, other dogs, scary objects) where as Zeph is quite timid, even after many visits & babysitting he still does not allow my father in law to pet him (he ducks away)

I think I knew it was a matter of training them alone. I just hate leaving one inside alone... as they cry and get distressed. I am building a secure yard for them outside with dog fence and an electric collar system, so that they are secure while I am at work. (at present they are in the barn while I am at work, but I feel that they would be happier if they could see out - they are the sort of dogs that like to see whats going on)

I think the biggest trouble at the moment is it is dark before and after work, so I dont have day light to train the dogs. It makes walking & training outside the barn or house very difficult.

Our current routine is :

Toilet 6.30 am - back inside while we get ready for work.
Over to the barn at about 8am - with 1.5 cups of eagle farm dry food and some form of a bone (usually lamb off cuts or a dried pork bone- to keep them occupied while I am away) the barn has a stable with saw dust for them to toilet, its cement and large enough for them to run around, but they cannot see out - however they are secure and have shelter which is the most important - as I cannot leave them in the house, as Zephyr destroys everything (he chews anything and everything). They have beds, and water and toys (which they dont play with as far as I know) Like I said, I am building a secure yard, and on the weekends 9as I need daylight for this) I have started training them using the electric boundary fencing system( which was recommended given our large property- i tested the collars on myself first, and feel that by training them to respond to the warning tone - they should not need to have the "correction" applied but in dire circumstances (i.e if they tried to dig out or jump the fence)
6.30 - 7pm - I get home from work and take them for a walk (in the dark) around the property only at this stage, as I am too scared to take them out to the trail in case we see another dog. They are both on a leash, allowing them to have plenty of sniffing time- usually about 30 minutes of walk/sniff. when I get back from the walk I do a small amount of basic training.. sit, drop, watch me. Then we head over to the house, I have dinner, and then once we have finished eating, I feed the dogs- they cannot have any red meat so usually they have rice or pasta with tuna, mackeral, or sardines (human canned food) they then settle in for the night, as pretty much the whole time they are inside, they just sleep !!
Back out for about 10-15 minutes of sniffing and toilet at about 9pm then off to bed.

My intention is to start taking them out alone. Also, once I get daylight back, I want to take them off the property - over to a field, where I can start doing better recall training with them both - on a long lead.

I also have horses, and unfortunately, Zephyr wants to chase them, so I am not able to trust him near the horses just yet- however, I am walking him past them and getting his attention (trying to) back to me while we are near them- he is getting better !

[Mattie]

I have tried loose lead training with Zephyr doing the turning around thing, but it doesnt seem to matter if I do it for 20 minute straight, going up and down the same stretch of ground, he still continues to pull, it doesnt make the smallest difference. I have tried with a little more success getting him to sit everytime he gets ahead of me - but this only works in an enviroment he is not distracted, the moment he gets distracted he wont even sit (altho last night I had them both sitting for me on our walk- however, its dark- so they cant see much!)

You are leaving it too late to turn and walk the other way, Zephyr shouldn't get near enough to pull, as soon as his head goes in front of you turn fast and quickly walk the other way. If you let him get any futher in front he can't see you turn, if he starts to pull he is reinforcing the pulling. Dogs pull because we don't go quickly enough for them.

I have only called Ushi dominent now as she was fine with other dogs (off leash, I was aware of her fear on the leash) before we got Zephyr, prior to having him she was happy to play with other dogs off the lead, now the minute she sees another dog she runs at it and will not stop barking and jumping on it ! (yet if I take her to the beach on her own... she is perfect!) Ushi is the sort of dog to run and confront everything (visitors, other dogs, scary objects) where as Zeph is quite timid, even after many visits & babysitting he still does not allow my father in law to pet him (he ducks away)

She is getting the other dog before they get her, each time she does this it is reinforcing this behaviour and it will get worse, she may eventually seriously hurt another dog. You must stop Ushi from doing this, if she done this to one of my dogs I would report it and any vet bills you would be responsible for. Your father in law should not be attempting to pet Zephyr, he should wait until he asks to be petted.

I think I knew it was a matter of training them alone. I just hate leaving one inside alone... as they cry and get distressed. I am building a secure yard for them outside with dog fence and an electric collar system, so that they are secure while I am at work. (at present they are in the barn while I am at work, but I feel that they would be happier if they could see out - they are the sort of dogs that like to see whats going on)

Electric fences are not secure, the shock can also damage your dogs. Ushi will just run through the fence when she sees another dog then won't be able to get back. Other animals can get in and attack yours. Stock fencing is secure and stop your dogs getting out and other animals getting in, it has to be a minimum of 6ft high.

I think the biggest trouble at the moment is it is dark before and after work, so I dont have day light to train the dogs. It makes walking & training outside the barn or house very difficult.

You can get some really good solar lights for outside now, these should give you enough light to train your dogs.

I have started training them using the electric boundary fencing system( which was recommended given our large property- i tested the collars on myself first, and feel that by training them to respond to the warning tone - they should not need to have the "correction" applied but in dire circumstances (i.e if they tried to dig out or jump the fence)

Just because you have found the shock is acceptable doesn't mean your dogs will because you are not a dog, these sort of gadgets rely on the owner thinking like a human and not a dog. Your dogs are not humans, you won't know just how much these shocks hurt because dogs are good at disguising pain. These collars go against everything with positive training, it is training by punishing your dogs and your dogs don't know why they are being punished. It still won't stop Ushi from running through it when she sees another dog, when dogs are aroused as Ushi is they don't feel the shock, they do if they try to get back in because they are no longer aroused.

I have dinner, and then once we have finished eating, I feed the dogs- they cannot have any red meat so usually they have rice or pasta with tuna, mackeral, or sardines (human canned food) they then settle in for the night, as pretty much the whole time they are inside, they just sleep !!

Why can't they have red meat?

[Ushi]

"Electric fences are not secure, the shock can also damage your dogs. Ushi will just run through the fence when she sees another dog then won't be able to get back. Other animals can get in and attack yours. Stock fencing is secure and stop your dogs getting out and other animals getting in, it has to be a minimum of 6ft high."

I am also putting up a stock fence, but unfortunately I have to erect only temporary fencing as we are leasing the property - therefore we do not have the option to erect a permanant 6 ft high fence. The electric system (which is a boundary fencing system which uses a radio signal - not an electric wire) was recomended by our animal welfare authority as the best option to ensure the dogs do not escape. I was not happy with just the electric boundary option myself, as I felt Ushi would do just as you say, and just as you mentioned, i was also concerned about other dogs being able to get in, this is why I am also erecting a 'stock' fence- but using the elecric boundary system as a back up option, to stop them being able to dig or jump out. - The boundary on this fencing system is set so that the dogs will not have any correction unless they are trying to push thru/dig under/or climb over the actual fence, and I am installing this as an 'emergency' situation sort of back up - not as the primary containment system. I am not really happy about the idea of a punishment style of training as I have always used positive reinforcement with both my dogs- Ushi has been clicker trained since a pup and I am doing clicker training with Zeph, (with not as much success as he is bette with verbal reward I have found) and I only walk and train them in Harnesses so there necks are not damaged if they do pull. The only reason I have decided to use this fence is that it is there as a 'last resort' should our other fence not work The fact that our vet and welfare group endorse this product was the only reason I considered it.

You are leaving it too late to turn and walk the other way, Zephyr shouldn't get near enough to pull, as soon as his head goes in front of you turn fast and quickly walk the other way. If you let him get any futher in front he can't see you turn, if he starts to pull he is reinforcing the pulling. Dogs pull because we don't go quickly enough for them.

I realised this after reading the post on loose lead training !! (and I just feel silly..lol) I do have another question tho : Zeph has trouble walking by my side, I am not sure if it is because he has poor vision from one eye ? would it be easier for him to walk with his poor vision side to me, so he can see his surroundings with his good eye, or his good eye to my side, so he can see where he is in relation to staying by my side ? - This is probably the hardest thing i have found about walking him, I am just unsure of what is the easiest / kindest way for him ?

She is getting the other dog before they get her, each time she does this it is reinforcing this behaviour and it will get worse, she may eventually seriously hurt another dog. You must stop Ushi from doing this, if she done this to one of my dogs I would report it and any vet bills you would be responsible for.

This is my biggest fear- and the exact reason why I no longer walk them both together where there are other dogs. I have not done so for 3 months, but I was looking for a solution to start working toward being able to have her back to being able to walk past other dogs with the two dogs together (did I mention she does not become aggressive unless she is with Zeph? She pulls to try & get to the other dog when she is on her own, but I do not let her, I cross the street, or ask her to sit and I stand between her and the other dog, and she is fine) It is only when the two are together that she is showing this aggression/fear in such a way I feel I do not have full control.

Your father in law should not be attempting to pet Zephyr, he should wait until he asks to be petted.

This is exactly what we ask visitors to do with him. We also give them treats to offer him to help him gain confidence in them. He is getting better, I was just using this as an example of his temprement.

You can get some really good solar lights for outside now, these should give you enough light to train your dogs.

Again, this is unfortunately not an option, as we do not own the property. I do have flood lights around the barn, so I have been training the dogs there where they are still outside with distraction, but we have light. I just feel horrible that they are contained to inside and that small area, I always liked taking them on long walks where they can sniff and see new surroundings, when we lived in town, this was not a problem as there were street lights - I guess I will have to make do with the weekends for the next few winter months

Why can't they have red meat?

This is a very common thing for there breed (Shar Pei) The breeders of Ushi and Zephyr advise against feeding it, as do most if not all breeders of this particular breed, It goes back (apparentely) to there origins in China, where there diet was made up of white meats and fish, therefore they genetically have a very low tolerence to red meat. If they are fed even a dry food with meat by products they have a reaction. - Commonly known as 'hotspots' here in Aus - I beleive (and this is a very simple, laymens terms version) that it has something to do with there immune system reacting to the foreign food, causing a high tempreture which causes breakouts on there skin, which look like bald patches and are red, sometimes smelly and itchy. It also can manifest into ear infections, itchy swollen eyes and stomach troubles. I am very particular about there diet - they are only feed premium holistic dry food which has no beef, pork or other meat or meat by products other than chicken, fish or lamb. (I forgot in my last post... they are also feed chicken necks (approx 4-5 each)daily with there tea!) They can only have a very small amount of lamb- such as bones with only a small amount of meat.

On a positive note, last night I had both dogs sitting, dropping, watch me, and sitting and waiting by the door before going out (this was them both together, I did not have the heart t seperate them as soon as I got home, so I played with them incorporating these things first, then did seperate training outside after that) Zephyr has picked up everything much quicker than I thought he would now I have taken Ushi away to train him alone. It takes a few minutes for him to settle, but once he does we get longer and longer periods where he is concentrting on me, and not distracted by anything and everything ! Makes a difference that I am not walking them together now too. - However, I am still struggling with what to do while they are toileting - altho, that should nto be an issue afte this weekend, as the fence will be finished and they will have a yard at least while we are home to supervise them!

[Mattie]

"Electric fences are not secure, the shock can also damage your dogs. Ushi will just run through the fence when she sees another dog then won't be able to get back. Other animals can get in and attack yours. Stock fencing is secure and stop your dogs getting out and other animals getting in, it has to be a minimum of 6ft high."

I am also putting up a stock fence, but unfortunately I have to erect only temporary fencing as we are leasing the property - therefore we do not have the option to erect a permanant 6 ft high fence. The electric system (which is a boundary fencing system which uses a radio signal - not an electric wire) was recomended by our animal welfare authority as the best option to ensure the dogs do not escape.

Just because your animal welfare authority recommended this fence doesn't mean that the fence isn't cruel, it is, any sort of treatment of any animal like this is cruel because the collar is on the dog and the dog doesn't have a choice. I don't like electric fences but at least the animals have the choice to touch them or not. Many dogs have died because of advice given by "experts", the owners thought that as they were "Experts" they knew what they were doing.

I was not happy with just the electric boundary option myself, as I felt Ushi would do just as you say, and just as you mentioned, i was also concerned about other dogs being able to get in, this is why I am also erecting a 'stock' fence- but using the elecric boundary system as a back up option, to stop them being able to dig or jump out. -

There are dogs that can jump a 6ft fence but these are athletic dogs, Shar Pei's are not athletic dogs. You can avoid dogs from digging under a fence by putting chicken wire under the ground fixed to the bottom of the stock fencing, if you put it 6ins below your dogs won't dig under it.

The boundary on this fencing system is set so that the dogs will not have any correction unless they are trying to push thru/dig under/or climb over the actual fence, and I am installing this as an 'emergency' situation sort of back up - not as the primary containment system.

If you have a decent stock fence you won't need a back-up, the fence will do it's job, I have had dogs that have jumped over and dug under, none have needed a back-up fence, a decent fence of the right hight or fixed at the bottom so they can't did, has worked.

I am not really happy about the idea of a punishment style of training as I have always used positive reinforcement with both my dogs-

Then don't use this fence, it will affect your dogs mentally.

Ushi has been clicker trained since a pup and I am doing clicker training with Zeph, (with not as much success as he is bette with verbal reward I have found) and I only walk and train them in Harnesses so there necks are not damaged if they do pull. The only reason I have decided to use this fence is that it is there as a 'last resort' should our other fence not work The fact that our vet and welfare group endorse this product was the only reason I considered it.

If Zeph works better for verbal rewards then give him verbal rewards, we need to do what our dogs work for, I have a dog that will work for verbal rewards. I mix my rewards, verbal, play, toys, and treats, if it works I use it. No point in using treats if your dog has just been fed, they need to be hungry so I train about an hour before feed time if I want to use treats.

You are not happy with this fence then don't use it, it isn't necessary, vets get very little training on dog behaviour, in fact most are really ignorant in dog behaviour, it isn't what they trained to do.

You could get a kennel with a big run for when you are not there, these have roofs on, your dogs can stay there when you are not around and be let out when you are to have the run of the fenced area, this will solve the problem of when you are not around. Your dogs will be safe and you won't need to give them an electric shock.


[

quote]You are leaving it too late to turn and walk the other way, Zephyr shouldn't get near enough to pull, as soon as his head goes in front of you turn fast and quickly walk the other way. If you let him get any futher in front he can't see you turn, if he starts to pull he is reinforcing the pulling. Dogs pull because we don't go quickly enough for them.

I realised this after reading the post on loose lead training !! (and I just feel silly..lol) I do have another question tho : Zeph has trouble walking by my side, I am not sure if it is because he has poor vision from one eye ? would it be easier for him to walk with his poor vision side to me, so he can see his surroundings with his good eye, or his good eye to my side, so he can see where he is in relation to staying by my side ? - This is probably the hardest thing i have found about walking him, I am just unsure of what is the easiest / kindest way for him ?

No need to feel silly, most people let their dogs start to pull before they try to correct it

I don't worry about which side my dogs walk, I am not going to compete and would prefer them to be able to walk on both sides as I have 4 dogs, 4 dogs trying to walk on the same side can be funny to watch but a nightmare to walk with. Let Zeph walk whichever side he wants. I don't expect my dogs to walk to my heel either, as long as they are walking on a long leash no matter how long or short the leash is. When on a short leash they are often walking to heel. I used to have a dog that refused to walk to heel, she would be slightly in front or behind.

This is my biggest fear- and the exact reason why I no longer walk them both together where there are other dogs. I have not done so for 3 months, but I was looking for a solution to start working toward being able to have her back to being able to walk past other dogs with the two dogs together (did I mention she does not become aggressive unless she is with Zeph? She pulls to try & get to the other dog when she is on her own, but I do not let her, I cross the street, or ask her to sit and I stand between her and the other dog, and she is fine) It is only when the two are together that she is showing this aggression/fear in such a way I feel I do not have full control.

You are doing the right thing, only time with doing this will stop it.

You can get some really good solar lights for outside now, these should give you enough light to train your dogs.

Again, this is unfortunately not an option, as we do not own the property. I do have flood lights around the barn, so I have been training the dogs there where they are still outside with distraction, but we have light. I just feel horrible that they are contained to inside and that small area, I always liked taking them on long walks where they can sniff and see new surroundings, when we lived in town, this was not a problem as there were street lights - I guess I will have to make do with the weekends for the next few winter months

Solar lights are portable, you can put them anywhere you want, all they need is day light to charge them. I use them a lot when in my caravan, I have windbreaks round for my dogs and they give enough light for me to see what they are doing.

On a positive note, last night I had both dogs sitting, dropping, watch me, and sitting and waiting by the door before going out (this was them both together, I did not have the heart t seperate them as soon as I got home, so I played with them incorporating these things first, then did seperate training outside after that) Zephyr has picked up everything much quicker than I thought he would now I have taken Ushi away to train him alone. It takes a few minutes for him to settle, but once he does we get longer and longer periods where he is concentrting on me, and not distracted by anything and everything ! Makes a difference that I am not walking them together now too. - However, I am still struggling with what to do while they are toileting - altho, that should nto be an issue afte this weekend, as the fence will be finished and they will have a yard at least while we are home to supervise them!

Keep a dairy of their progress and when things seem bad and you thing they have regressed, look at it and see how far they have come. You have already done a lot of work with them, ask as many questions as you want and we will help as much as we can. Just one thing, we are here for the dogs, as you have found out if we think a dog will be hurt we can be very blunt, owners can take care of themselves dogs can't. We don't attack the owners, we will attack a method used, like you many have been recommended things by people they think as experts, these methods often will hurt and damage the dog, we do condemn them.

[Mattie]

Sorry, I should have said you kennels with runs can be taken down and moved if you move home, also stock fencing can be moved as well as solar lights. My problem with solar lights is my dogs, they think they are toys

[Ushi]

Thanks Mattie. I do understand that people here are for the dogs... now I just feel a bit silly that I went out and spent allot of money on this fencing system which I am hesitant to use! I did do research befpre deciding on it and it really seemed like the right option at the time- however, I certainly see your point of view, and I am re-thinking the whole thing ! - shame I cant just return it and get my money back, I havent even used it with the dogs yet, however, I did install it already.

You are right about Shar Pei not being able to jump, my two clamber up on the bed or couch, they rarely "spring" onto anything unless they are feeling particularly playfull. Zeph does like to dig and squeez thru things- which was my main concern - i wish I had of thought of a portable dog run... I will admit the boundary fence only appealed to me simply as it meant the dogs had a really big area to run around in during the day, and I was thinking how much they would love that much room to sniff and play and be able to watch out around there surrounds, it wasnt until I watched the training DVD and installed the fence that I began to have second thoughts about how well it would contain them, the other animals being able to get in, and then, of course (and I did have this issue from the start, but let the vet and welfare people convince me it was fine) if I felt ok about them being 'zapped' (which I really dont now )

Anyway, I just wanted to reply and say that last night I got zephyr to walk from the barn to our house (probaly 500 metres) on a loose lead. He has picked this up so so quickly ! As soon as I started turning before he pulled it just clicked, and started to work ! (wooo hooo) I wont let my other half take him out even to the toilet on the lead just yet, I really want to work with him for a couple of weeks to get this solid. But I think my little man Zeph is allot more clever than what i gave him credit for. Once you get his attention, he seems much more relaxed and less like a child on red cordial ! I have also taught Ushi a new trick.. she does the super cute little spin now, it only took two sessions to get it down pat. Now I have to think of something else to teach her, she really has sit, drop and watch me down pat. I want to work on Stay- but will need to do some reading, as I am unsure how best to train stay.Once we get some light I will also work on her recall again, she is fine recalling indoors, I want to take her out to a field on a long lead line. She is a bit unhappy that I am spending one on one time with Zephyr, so I need to make some special time for her so she doesnt start bullying Zeph too much.

Anyway, Thanks again, you have been most helpful, I am still in shock that all I needed to do was change when I turned Zeph for him to click and start walking "nicely" I honestly thought he would never learn, or at least take a week or so before I saw much of a result !!

Oh, and I do always train them before dinner - otherwise they are not very food orientated ! - Tho they do make quite a mess with treats.. the end of training always sees me covered in slobber

[Mattie]

Thanks Mattie. I do understand that people here are for the dogs... now I just feel a bit silly that I went out and spent allot of money on this fencing system which I am hesitant to use! I did do research befpre deciding on it and it really seemed like the right option at the time- however, I certainly see your point of view, and I am re-thinking the whole thing ! - shame I cant just return it and get my money back, I havent even used it with the dogs yet, however, I did install it already.

Get rid of the "Silly" feeling it is negative and doesn't do any good You did what anyone would do, went to the people you thought would know, done that myself in the past, that isn't silly, pity they didn't tell you they didn't have the knowledge to advise you.

To me and everyone on here zapping a dog is cruel, the dog doesn't know why and if nobody is around when the dog is zapped, they can't teach them what they do want the dog to do, the dog has to work it out himself so keeps getting zapped for some time even when they have been trained not to go near the fence.

Anyway, I just wanted to reply and say that last night I got zephyr to walk from the barn to ourhouse (probaly 500 metres) on a loose lead. He has picked this up so so quickly ! As soon as I started turning before he pulled it just clicked, and started to work ! (wooo hooo) I wont let my other half take him out even to the toilet on the lead just yet, I really want to work with him for a couple of weeks to get this solid.

Well done, it is surprisingly easy when you know how, humans look for complicated methods to cure problems instead of the easy ones, easy one often work quicker and better.

But I think my little man Zeph is allot more clever than what i gave him credit for. Once you get his attention, he seems much more relaxed and less like a child on red cordial !

Think of him like a small child, he needs to be occupied or gets into trouble, he needs to be taught things and still be a dog, it is easier to do than you think.

I have also taught Ushi a new trick.. she does the super cute little spin now, it only took two sessions to get it down pat. Now I have to think of something else to teach her, she really has sit, drop and watch me down pat. I want to work on Stay- but will need to do some reading, as I am unsure how best to train stay.Once we get some light I will also work on her recall again, she is fine recalling indoors, I want to take her out to a field on a long lead line. She is a bit unhappy that I am spending one on one time with Zephyr, so I need to make some special time for her so she doesnt start bullying Zeph too much.

Teach them both to help you round the house, fetch named objects like the tv remote, pick up things if you drop them etc. With most dogs I would say load and unload the washing machine but the clothes will be covered in slobber

Please stay with us and keep us updated, join in and enjoy the forum, many have become good friends and we enjoy more joining us. Your dogs are very lucky to have a mum like you, you felt things were not right so looked further, well done.