Hello--
I have a King Charles Spaniel that is almost a year. He is the sweetest dog in the world, but I am continuing to have problems with him on a few things. We have gone through Petsmart Beginner class and are working through the Intermediate class right now. I got him when he was 8 weeks from a breeder. He is the very definition of a lap dog, loves to be outdoors, and is very shy and cautious at first and then very bold once he's used to something. He is crated from 830-5 each day and gets an hour walk everyday.
Here are the problems:
1. The biggest is his growling. He does this the worst when I am brushing him. I can generally get it to quit if I feed him copious amounts of treats while I'm doing it, but if I don't keep them coming he will growl and snap. The breeder told me to grab him by the scruff of the neck, so I am doing that. I was also told by the trainer at Petsmart to not stop brushing, because then he would learn how to get his way. I have also tried timeouts after growling, tied to short leash on the door. He is also a thief and growls when I try to take things from him (socks, paper towels that I accidentally dropped, etc.). He's gotten better about this with "drop it," but still likes to "talk back." We had a particularly exhausting battle trying to brush him this evening. It is waring on me and him.
2. He licks LIKE CRAZY. I have tried teaching him a command, squirting him with water from a bottle, putting a little bitter apple on my leg, etc. This will work for a minute, but then he is back at it. I know he loves me and wants to show affection, but he will lick for 30 minutes if I let him. Guests do not enjoy this behavior when they come over.
3. He gets very exciting when people come over. This does not bother me; I know Cavalier King Charles Spaniels love people, and it's a trait I adore. However, he jumps up into people's faces, snaps at their arms and noses, and on a few occasions has ended up punching people in the eye with his nose. I've tried telling people to push him off and telling people to turn their backs and ignore him, and nothing seems to do the trick.
4. When we go out, sometimes he will grab at the leash with his mouth and start tugging. In the summer, I thought it was because he was overheating and needed to turn back, but the behavior has continued. He does it when I am going to take him for a walk, I am going to take him into the apartment, the list goes on. I can't figure out a pattern. I tried ignoring it, but then it just got so bad that he started nipping and biting at me, and it was too painful to continue ignoring it. I tried turning around and saying, "NO!" very sternly. He would start up again pretty quick after that. I tried squiring him with water from a spray bottle, and that seems to work, but after months of doing that, he has not learned how to stop.
I apologize for the long post. I love my dog very very much, but these little behavioral problems are really starting to tire me out. It's gotten difficult to have guests over. This evening he peed in the apartment (I'm guessing submissive after I gave him timeout for growling while brushing?), but then when I tried to wipe off his paws to clean them, he ran away and growled at me. I had a guest over and it was embarrassing. Please help!
Licking, Growling, Nipping
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Also eating
I forgot to mention this also- my dog loves to eat anything and everything. I would love to leave him out of the crate when I am at the office, or let him sleep in the bedroom with me, but I fear I would come home to find he ate the dvd player or wake up to discover he had devoured all the books from my bookshelf. He is barely a year, and already we have had to go to the emergency clinic (because he swallowed a pine cone while playing in my parents backyard). He has eaten copious amounts of bark, socks, panties, you name it, he's probably eaten it. Just wanted to include that to give you an idea of the dog.
Personally, I'd stop that and work on getting him to see grooming as a good thing instead. I started off clicking and treating Rupert just for me holding the brush, then holding the brush closer to him, then touching him for a second, then a tiny brush stroke and so on. Took a few weeks but he's comfortable being brushed now.The breeder told me to grab him by the scruff of the neck, so I am doing that.
It's not always about "getting their own way", it could be your dog is frightened, that the grooming is hurting him, that it's hurt him before and he's now expecting it to hurt. Mine was terrified of the brush and forcing the issue or grabbing the scruff of his neck would have made him even more scared.
Hiya, welcome to the forums...
Right.... eeshk..where to start.
You guys are misunderstanding one another.... and I'd really quite like to take the people who have given you duff training/behavioural advice and kick them in the pants (thats the nice version...I cant type what Id really like to do!).
First of all grooming - its gotta be done, I know this, I have a Tibetan Terrier... with a full coat, we know about grooming here!
But - it can be uncomfy, it can pull and scratch and tug... and its hard staying still all that time (boy do we know about that, you know it takes me over an hour and a half to fully dry mine after hes had a bath?!!!). For a dog, its really hard to stay still... and be handled all over even their most sensitive bits... and then sometimes it pulls a little or the brush is a little rough on delicate skin..
Forcing him to put up with it, by scruffing him... isnt the way. It will just make him object more forcefully... the more force you use, the more he will use... unless you go so far as to seriously hurt or frighten him, which of course you wont do! (Some people would!)..
His growl, nip, bite... these are the only ways he has of saying 'hey... i dont like this... it hurts.. its not comfy... please stop'.
If you ignore him growling... hes going to have to say it a little louder... by nipping or biting. And punishing him for this is pointless (btw ill come to time outs in a minute but tying him to the door handle is a fairly rubbish time out method).
The treats thing does work - take a look at the clicker training thread, you can use clicker training not just to get him to accept being groomed.... but to accept it for a certain length of time before he gets his treat.
What you are doing right now is flat out bribery, and thats useful at times - but as you are finding, you stuff him full of treats and once they are gone... he doesnt want to know.
With clicker training you can change his attitude so he thinks 'yay, grooming!', I promise you!.
But - you MUST do this at his pace.... and you must do it step by step.
So you start by clicking and treating for just not running away when you have a brush in your hand. Dont even touch him with it!
Then you might click and treat for touching just his head or his back with the brush. (Wherever he likes most).
You can build up to touching his trickiest bits, paws, tummy, around his bum etc... sloooooowly slowly..
Once he will let you touch everywhere, then you build up to brushing just a couple of strokes, then click and treat...
When you can do that, you try brushing a few more strokes before he gets his click and treat.
Each time you move up a step, make it just one change so change where you brush... or how long you brush... but dont change both at the same time.
Now that sounds like its gonna take forever but it isnt. It might take you a couple of weeks if you do it properly.
Make each session just last a minute... maybe even less. But... you can do lots of sessions within one day (if you do lots in a day, try to stick to the same lesson each time dont chop and change or its confusing).
Even when you think hes really getting the hang of it, its much better to do just three minutes of grooming/clicker work, and leave him wanting MORE, than it is to push it to say five minutes... and risk over doing it and him going off the idea again.
So thats that one - go read the clicker thread and condition your dog to the clicker, and work on that. No more forcing him to accept it and getting into arguments with him.
Growling over stuff - you know if hes got something in his mouth... its his, right?
If you didnt know that, you do now.
This doesnt mean he has to keep it, what it means is, in his world... in his 'law'... something thats in his mouth is his, and hes got every right to defend it.
So dont go for taking stuff straight off him, to him YOU are the one stealing and threatening and hes going to object. Plus, spaniels like picking things up and carrying them about. Its their thing. So avoid him having access to your stuff (be more tidy!) in the first place.
Now - sometimes a dog gets something they cant have... and you do need to get it back.
The best thing to do, is offer him a swap.
Instead of 'oi you gimme that back'..... you are saying 'heyyyyy look what IVE got' and offering something better. Keep some treats in your pocket for this, and if you dont have some, run to another room and call him and give him something in return for it.
You still get your item back... he still didnt get to chew up that item... but there was no confrontation, no argument, so no need to growl or snap... or get punished! Much nicer!
You can teach him to drop by using treats/toys as swapsies too, starting out again with a bit of bribery... so showing him the treat.. and when he has come to associate the cue 'drop it' with 'shes got something nicer for me' you can start having the treat hidden in your hand... then in your pocket... then in a dish over hte other side of the room... then in the kitchen.... so you work your way up to not having to have the treat right there. That takes time, practice and trust though (and... a LOT of folk will lie to a dog and say'hey whats this' and pretend they have something and then turns out they dont... dogs get wise to this one FAST. Dont do it!).
Licking - yeah he isnt doing this because he loves you.... hes doing it because hes anxious and insecure.
In part, sorting out the grooming thing and the taking stuff/guarding it thing will really help. Also the clicker training will help him to gain confidence in you.
The more confidence he has in himself and in you, as well as trust and respect (which quitting forcing him to accept stuff, fighting with him and punishments he cant understand are currently damaging/preventing), the less anxious and insecure he will be.
Stop using aversives such as squirt bottles.
Time outs ARE a useful consequence to unwanted behaviour, BUT - they must be used appropriately and efficiently.
A good time out would be to either leave the room so he is on his own, or put him out of the room, for 30 seconds.
Its short, sharp, and to the point. It MUST be immediately the unwanted behaviour starts and it MUST only be for as long as it takes him to go 'hey... what just happened...'
Any longer than this, he forgets what it was he was doing that caused the time out. He starts thinking about something else and the usefulness of the method is gone.
In some situations, tethering as a time out can be useful (for instance dogs who have learned to hurl themselves bodily at their owners in the park... 'parking up' a dog in a strop like this can be handy as you can then ignore the behaviour). In this instance it is not useful, it will just cause frustration and confusion and thats not what you want to achieve at all.
From now on if he licks you... say NOTHING, dont look at him... get up and walk away from him. Just for 30 seconds, then sit back down.
Its HIGHLY likely you will have to repeat this till you are bored stupid of it... but the message will get through.
A word of warning though - if you continue to use force, aversives such as water sprays, ignore him growling and argue with him... he will continue to be anxious and he will continue to NEED to do this licking behaviour.
You cannot JUST give him no reward for the behaviour you dont like, you have to address WHY he does it in the first place.
If he does this to guests then you have to make sure they too will get up, silently and ignore him for a few seconds, and KEEP doing this until he stops.
Over excitement with guests - you have to teach him how he should greet guests. I like jumpy uppy dogs too, but I know not everyone does. So my dogs jump up WHEN i ask them to do so, and keep their paws on the floor if they havent been invited to jump up.
I do not let guests invite them to jump up as i dont want them to assume its ok.
Teach him, using a helpful friend, and a leash... to sit when someone comes in. If he gets up have the guest turn around IMMEDIATELY and walk back out the door.
You might need to practice him sitting nicely by the door, sitting when the doorbell is rung or someone knocks before you get to the stage of asking him to sit as the guest comes in.
It is up to YOU to make sure that guests dont encourage him to jump up.
The reason he is snapping at arms and noses is again because he is insecure and anxious - guests are exciting and hes a peopley dog he likes people... but hes not sure whats right to do.. so he gets in close but then he boils over a bit and cant quite control himself.
I have to say this and I realise that this isnt your fault, you have been mislead by other people. but...
All these behaviours your dog displays are as a result of outdated, ill thought out training methods.
Using force.. using fear.... using punishments, rather than listening to him and teaching him kindly, trying to remove symptoms of behaviour rather than looking at the root cause and asking 'why does he do this' - these are the reasons your dog is anxious and insecure, growls and nips and bites and licks you.
You have come to the right place and if you put in the work you can turn him around and have a MUCH happier, funner relationship with him. And after all... you got a dog because they are fun and they are your best friend!
Right.... eeshk..where to start.
You guys are misunderstanding one another.... and I'd really quite like to take the people who have given you duff training/behavioural advice and kick them in the pants (thats the nice version...I cant type what Id really like to do!).
First of all grooming - its gotta be done, I know this, I have a Tibetan Terrier... with a full coat, we know about grooming here!
But - it can be uncomfy, it can pull and scratch and tug... and its hard staying still all that time (boy do we know about that, you know it takes me over an hour and a half to fully dry mine after hes had a bath?!!!). For a dog, its really hard to stay still... and be handled all over even their most sensitive bits... and then sometimes it pulls a little or the brush is a little rough on delicate skin..
Forcing him to put up with it, by scruffing him... isnt the way. It will just make him object more forcefully... the more force you use, the more he will use... unless you go so far as to seriously hurt or frighten him, which of course you wont do! (Some people would!)..
His growl, nip, bite... these are the only ways he has of saying 'hey... i dont like this... it hurts.. its not comfy... please stop'.
If you ignore him growling... hes going to have to say it a little louder... by nipping or biting. And punishing him for this is pointless (btw ill come to time outs in a minute but tying him to the door handle is a fairly rubbish time out method).
The treats thing does work - take a look at the clicker training thread, you can use clicker training not just to get him to accept being groomed.... but to accept it for a certain length of time before he gets his treat.
What you are doing right now is flat out bribery, and thats useful at times - but as you are finding, you stuff him full of treats and once they are gone... he doesnt want to know.
With clicker training you can change his attitude so he thinks 'yay, grooming!', I promise you!.
But - you MUST do this at his pace.... and you must do it step by step.
So you start by clicking and treating for just not running away when you have a brush in your hand. Dont even touch him with it!
Then you might click and treat for touching just his head or his back with the brush. (Wherever he likes most).
You can build up to touching his trickiest bits, paws, tummy, around his bum etc... sloooooowly slowly..
Once he will let you touch everywhere, then you build up to brushing just a couple of strokes, then click and treat...
When you can do that, you try brushing a few more strokes before he gets his click and treat.
Each time you move up a step, make it just one change so change where you brush... or how long you brush... but dont change both at the same time.
Now that sounds like its gonna take forever but it isnt. It might take you a couple of weeks if you do it properly.
Make each session just last a minute... maybe even less. But... you can do lots of sessions within one day (if you do lots in a day, try to stick to the same lesson each time dont chop and change or its confusing).
Even when you think hes really getting the hang of it, its much better to do just three minutes of grooming/clicker work, and leave him wanting MORE, than it is to push it to say five minutes... and risk over doing it and him going off the idea again.
So thats that one - go read the clicker thread and condition your dog to the clicker, and work on that. No more forcing him to accept it and getting into arguments with him.
Growling over stuff - you know if hes got something in his mouth... its his, right?
If you didnt know that, you do now.
This doesnt mean he has to keep it, what it means is, in his world... in his 'law'... something thats in his mouth is his, and hes got every right to defend it.
So dont go for taking stuff straight off him, to him YOU are the one stealing and threatening and hes going to object. Plus, spaniels like picking things up and carrying them about. Its their thing. So avoid him having access to your stuff (be more tidy!) in the first place.
Now - sometimes a dog gets something they cant have... and you do need to get it back.
The best thing to do, is offer him a swap.
Instead of 'oi you gimme that back'..... you are saying 'heyyyyy look what IVE got' and offering something better. Keep some treats in your pocket for this, and if you dont have some, run to another room and call him and give him something in return for it.
You still get your item back... he still didnt get to chew up that item... but there was no confrontation, no argument, so no need to growl or snap... or get punished! Much nicer!
You can teach him to drop by using treats/toys as swapsies too, starting out again with a bit of bribery... so showing him the treat.. and when he has come to associate the cue 'drop it' with 'shes got something nicer for me' you can start having the treat hidden in your hand... then in your pocket... then in a dish over hte other side of the room... then in the kitchen.... so you work your way up to not having to have the treat right there. That takes time, practice and trust though (and... a LOT of folk will lie to a dog and say'hey whats this' and pretend they have something and then turns out they dont... dogs get wise to this one FAST. Dont do it!).
Licking - yeah he isnt doing this because he loves you.... hes doing it because hes anxious and insecure.
In part, sorting out the grooming thing and the taking stuff/guarding it thing will really help. Also the clicker training will help him to gain confidence in you.
The more confidence he has in himself and in you, as well as trust and respect (which quitting forcing him to accept stuff, fighting with him and punishments he cant understand are currently damaging/preventing), the less anxious and insecure he will be.
Stop using aversives such as squirt bottles.
Time outs ARE a useful consequence to unwanted behaviour, BUT - they must be used appropriately and efficiently.
A good time out would be to either leave the room so he is on his own, or put him out of the room, for 30 seconds.
Its short, sharp, and to the point. It MUST be immediately the unwanted behaviour starts and it MUST only be for as long as it takes him to go 'hey... what just happened...'
Any longer than this, he forgets what it was he was doing that caused the time out. He starts thinking about something else and the usefulness of the method is gone.
In some situations, tethering as a time out can be useful (for instance dogs who have learned to hurl themselves bodily at their owners in the park... 'parking up' a dog in a strop like this can be handy as you can then ignore the behaviour). In this instance it is not useful, it will just cause frustration and confusion and thats not what you want to achieve at all.
From now on if he licks you... say NOTHING, dont look at him... get up and walk away from him. Just for 30 seconds, then sit back down.
Its HIGHLY likely you will have to repeat this till you are bored stupid of it... but the message will get through.
A word of warning though - if you continue to use force, aversives such as water sprays, ignore him growling and argue with him... he will continue to be anxious and he will continue to NEED to do this licking behaviour.
You cannot JUST give him no reward for the behaviour you dont like, you have to address WHY he does it in the first place.
If he does this to guests then you have to make sure they too will get up, silently and ignore him for a few seconds, and KEEP doing this until he stops.
Over excitement with guests - you have to teach him how he should greet guests. I like jumpy uppy dogs too, but I know not everyone does. So my dogs jump up WHEN i ask them to do so, and keep their paws on the floor if they havent been invited to jump up.
I do not let guests invite them to jump up as i dont want them to assume its ok.
Teach him, using a helpful friend, and a leash... to sit when someone comes in. If he gets up have the guest turn around IMMEDIATELY and walk back out the door.
You might need to practice him sitting nicely by the door, sitting when the doorbell is rung or someone knocks before you get to the stage of asking him to sit as the guest comes in.
It is up to YOU to make sure that guests dont encourage him to jump up.
The reason he is snapping at arms and noses is again because he is insecure and anxious - guests are exciting and hes a peopley dog he likes people... but hes not sure whats right to do.. so he gets in close but then he boils over a bit and cant quite control himself.
I have to say this and I realise that this isnt your fault, you have been mislead by other people. but...
All these behaviours your dog displays are as a result of outdated, ill thought out training methods.
Using force.. using fear.... using punishments, rather than listening to him and teaching him kindly, trying to remove symptoms of behaviour rather than looking at the root cause and asking 'why does he do this' - these are the reasons your dog is anxious and insecure, growls and nips and bites and licks you.
You have come to the right place and if you put in the work you can turn him around and have a MUCH happier, funner relationship with him. And after all... you got a dog because they are fun and they are your best friend!
Thank you!!
Thank you so much for the post, Emmabeth. It is so wonderful to hear these things. I love my little dog so very much, but I knew these techniques were not working for us. I'm so glad I posted on this forum! I'm looking forward to seeing what all I can learn here!
I am not doing this right
So I have been working with Oxford for a week now on the brushing. We are still really struggling. He got to the point where I could hold it up next to him and he would stay in the room, so I moved on the one stroke on the back. He didn't like that, so we've been working on just holding the brush over his back, and then he gets a click and a treat. Two things:
1. He jumps away when I put the brush over his back. I've been clicking a giving him a treat for this. Is that OK?
2. He is getting very matted in a few places already. I finally broke down and tried to get a few of them out this weekend. Probably not wise because we will have to start over on Monday I feel. Should I just let him get all matted until we finish this? I'm worried it could take a very long time for him to feel comfortable with me even brushing him a little, and he could be really matted by that point. I was only able to get out a few.
I really wish I could rewind and do this over again, because it is such a battle every time I bring out the brush, and I know I created the behavior. He's such a hairy little guy though. I guess I should just keep plugging on?
1. He jumps away when I put the brush over his back. I've been clicking a giving him a treat for this. Is that OK?
2. He is getting very matted in a few places already. I finally broke down and tried to get a few of them out this weekend. Probably not wise because we will have to start over on Monday I feel. Should I just let him get all matted until we finish this? I'm worried it could take a very long time for him to feel comfortable with me even brushing him a little, and he could be really matted by that point. I was only able to get out a few.
I really wish I could rewind and do this over again, because it is such a battle every time I bring out the brush, and I know I created the behavior. He's such a hairy little guy though. I guess I should just keep plugging on?
I would battle on for now and try to ignore the mats, much though I know its awful when they do get matted it DOES take some time before those matts become a problem, and you can always cut them out.
If you think he does have a bad tangle.... it might be better if you get someone else (someone competant) to carefully cut it out thereby avoiding revisiting the issue of you being the 'bad guy'...
If he will let you, try doseing any tangles with some baby oil and picking them out by hand.
Back the the brush stuff though - over the back is scary, he cant see what you are doing back there so he jumps back to see.
I think id go back to just focussing on 'brush = good' and having him totally comfy with the brush where he can see it, perhaps sniffing the brush or touching it himself even!
Perhaps put the brush on the floor and if he chooses to touch it with his nose or paw... click + treat.
I would do this... and then seperate sessions of being clicked/treated for allowing you to handle his body all over... so touch the paw = click + treat, touch the head = click + treat. Gradually build up your touches so they are more like brush strokes, and keep in mind to vary just ONE thing at once..
So for touching your 'variables' are duration, location, pressure. If you change one.. go right back to the basics with the other two, so if hes totally chilled about you touching his chest but only tolerating you touching a paw... when you increase duration go back to the chest first and get him used to you touching for longer there before you try it elsewhere.
It really is worth it, in the long run because you will end up with a dog who comes TO you to be brushed, rolls on his back and says 'mmm do my tummy' and you can fiddle and pick out tangles as much as you like.
Short term.. you might have to cut a few knots out or have him looking a bit tatty for a while but it really is worth it!
If you think he does have a bad tangle.... it might be better if you get someone else (someone competant) to carefully cut it out thereby avoiding revisiting the issue of you being the 'bad guy'...
If he will let you, try doseing any tangles with some baby oil and picking them out by hand.
Back the the brush stuff though - over the back is scary, he cant see what you are doing back there so he jumps back to see.
I think id go back to just focussing on 'brush = good' and having him totally comfy with the brush where he can see it, perhaps sniffing the brush or touching it himself even!
Perhaps put the brush on the floor and if he chooses to touch it with his nose or paw... click + treat.
I would do this... and then seperate sessions of being clicked/treated for allowing you to handle his body all over... so touch the paw = click + treat, touch the head = click + treat. Gradually build up your touches so they are more like brush strokes, and keep in mind to vary just ONE thing at once..
So for touching your 'variables' are duration, location, pressure. If you change one.. go right back to the basics with the other two, so if hes totally chilled about you touching his chest but only tolerating you touching a paw... when you increase duration go back to the chest first and get him used to you touching for longer there before you try it elsewhere.
It really is worth it, in the long run because you will end up with a dog who comes TO you to be brushed, rolls on his back and says 'mmm do my tummy' and you can fiddle and pick out tangles as much as you like.
Short term.. you might have to cut a few knots out or have him looking a bit tatty for a while but it really is worth it!
Will do
Got it. I will try those things. I guess I just won't put the little bear in too many Christmas photos while he's all tatty. :0)
I forgot to mention, other updates- standing up and walking away when he licks has been working very well. He had almost completely stopped until I went back to trying to brush him like I did before to get out the mats. I am very confident that is a habit we can break soon. I'm getting lots of exercise getting up off the couch!
I am also trying the shaping method with the clicker for jumping up on counters, the table (when I'm not eating), etc. It's working REALLY well. He's much improved.
We have not had a chance to practice people coming over yet, and tugging on the leash while walking is still a bit of a problem. I've started doing "drop it" with a click + treat, and that's working better than any of the other methods.
One nice plus- he's started playing fetch with me all of a sudden. He would never do it before, but now he will just come up to me and drop the ball. We love it!
Bunny out. :0)
I forgot to mention, other updates- standing up and walking away when he licks has been working very well. He had almost completely stopped until I went back to trying to brush him like I did before to get out the mats. I am very confident that is a habit we can break soon. I'm getting lots of exercise getting up off the couch!
I am also trying the shaping method with the clicker for jumping up on counters, the table (when I'm not eating), etc. It's working REALLY well. He's much improved.
We have not had a chance to practice people coming over yet, and tugging on the leash while walking is still a bit of a problem. I've started doing "drop it" with a click + treat, and that's working better than any of the other methods.
One nice plus- he's started playing fetch with me all of a sudden. He would never do it before, but now he will just come up to me and drop the ball. We love it!
Bunny out. :0)
