What is your opinion about Husher muzzle?

wickj · Post by **wickj** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:56 pm

Hi everyone.
I just read the topic about Husher muzzle on other forum (polish one, http://www.szkoleniepsow.fora.pl/proble ... html#77740) . It's almost 6 pages of posts related to Husher and many of posts are disapproving Husher as a solution (others may say - method) for unwanted barking. Since that forum is strictly "positive" and any, even minimal pressure on dog is disallowed, I decided to turn to you - members of Victoria Stillwell forum and ask what do you think?
Does anybody use (or used) Husher? Or perhaps Husher should be used in combination with some kind of therapy? What is your story or your opinion?

Witold

spydre · Post by **spydre** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Do you have a link to the product directly?

spydre · Post by **spydre** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:38 pm

Never mind, I found it.

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Sorry I can't understand the posts but personally I don't like anything that goes over a dog's nose like that. If a dog is sick they will drown on it because they can't open their mouths to let it out. That alone is enough for me not to use one on any of my dogs. Dogs have drowned in their own vomit with a muzzle that goes over the nose like this.

wickj · Post by **wickj** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:15 pm

Mattie wrote:Sorry I can't understand the posts but personally I don't like anything that goes over a dog's nose like that. If a dog is sick they will drown on it because they can't open their mouths to let it out. That alone is enough for me not to use one on any of my dogs. Dogs have drowned in their own vomit with a muzzle that goes over the nose like this.

The discussion is about following: is The Husher some kind a solution for unwanted barking caused by separation anxiety disorder (and some other reasons).
Another point of discussion was: could we treat Husher as a "method" in positive training or not. Forum members have serious doubts in terms: is Husher P- or R. Basically, are dogs able to learn an alternative behaviour while Husher makes them to avoid barking and does it have an impact on dogs mental health?
And the perhaps most important discussion was about: how "humane" Husher is? Does dog suffer while having Husher on his nose?
For reference: The original Huhser webpage is here: www.husher.com.au

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:21 pm

Thanks.

I still say they shouldn't be used because if a dog vomits they can't get it up and will drown in their vomit. This has happened and I wouldn't risk it with my dogs. You could have a dead dog before you got it off.

Unwanted barking is only unwanted by us humans, dogs bark for a reason, we need to tackle the reason to stop the barking not put muzzles on them. I could have put muzzles on my sons many times when they were growing up though.

WendyM · Post by **WendyM** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:01 pm

I honestly don't think anything (method or device) that deters a dog from barking 100% of the time is humane or wise. I like to think that if my dog got stuck somewhere or separated from me her deep baritone bark would help me find her, she barks to say "hi" to other dogs, gives warning to strangers in dim light, and alerts us to people at the door.

Not to mention we live between two highschools, a grade school on the other major street and a private jr. high-- all of our dogless neighbors have their houses decorated with toilet paper and plastic bags at least once during homecoming week and/or on Halloween (or the Saturday night closest to Halloween.)

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:50 pm

I work in a youth crisis center. Sometimes an out of control youth requires physical intervention (a restraint hold). However, the official policy regarding this practice is that physical intervention should only be used after all verbal methods of de-escalation have failed, and when the youth continues to be a danger to himself and other, and only as a last resort. I believe this policy applies equally well to dogs. Given that, barking alone is not a sufficient reason for physical restraint, which a muzzle is.

spydre · Post by **spydre** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:03 pm

With Loth, there were a few times that in order for the vet to safely treat her, he would have to muzzle her. Just a standard, rather loose fitting (for her - she didn't conform to any standard size) muzzle - and those stressed her out enough. Luckily, those types of muzzles only kept her from biting - she could still open her mouth a bit (I remember when we had her pts, her lying sedated on the floor, tongue hanging out in a puddle of drool). But again, those were muzzles that didn't really fit - and if she really tried she could push them off.

emmabeth · Post by **emmabeth** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:50 am

I would not use a Husher where a dog is being left alone with it on.

My 'tool' of choice where a dog is barking and is verging on hysterical (or gets that way if left to bark unchecked, and i own a dog like this) is the Mekuti calming band.

In a similar way to the husher it goes around the dogs muzzle and the dog can feel the pressure of it if he/she opens the mouth to bark.

That is about where the similarity ends though because the calming band is much looser fitting than the husher and isnt designed to make barking unpleasant or keep the mouth closed.

Its designed to make the dog be more aware of his head/mouth/muzzle and the tension held there. For dogs who are very reactive and tending towards hysteria that can be very useful, often they arent actually fully aware that it IS them making the noise and the noise of their own barking fuels their hysteria further .... a vicious cycle which is no good for anyone!

I wouldnt use a calming band without being present though either, the risks of strangling or getting tangled or with the husher, vomiting and choking are just too high. Dogs with things round their faces will try to remove them.... panicking stressed dogs (which those barking out of anxiety will be) react badly to being trapped and can really injure themselves.

Just not worth the risk in my opinion.

If you have a husher and it does not upset your dog to wear it, then you could do some controlled training using it. I dont believe the item itself or its intended purpose is inherently wrong or harmful, its the risk of leaving a dog unattended for long periods that worries me.

If you were to set up 'fake' situations where the dog was under camera surveillance (easily done for low cost these days) so safety was ensured then it could be helpful.

Long term though and for most dogs, merely making barking tiring or difficult to do is not the best strategy. Many people will find their dog moves onto some other equally unwanted behaviour as an outlet or coping strategy, such as howling, crying loudly, digging or scraping etc.

wickj · Post by **wickj** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:41 am

I agree. I think that Husher is a good "tool" under condition it's combined with some therapy or training. Actually I don't believe that it helps to solve problem of barking by itself, but as a therapy aid - could be quite useful.

I'm also tracking that Polish forum, and today it looks like a battle from Star Wars

The discussion is very emotional... People use to compare Husher to electric collar... Hm...a bit strange though?

Yet another point of discussion is: Could we use Husher in positive training and / or is the Husher positive since it's a preventive kind of measure?
What do you say?

Pawzk9 · Post by **Pawzk9** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:59 pm

wickj wrote:
Mattie wrote:Sorry I can't understand the posts but personally I don't like anything that goes over a dog's nose like that. If a dog is sick they will drown on it because they can't open their mouths to let it out. That alone is enough for me not to use one on any of my dogs. Dogs have drowned in their own vomit with a muzzle that goes over the nose like this.
The discussion is about following: is The Husher some kind a solution for unwanted barking caused by separation anxiety disorder (and some other reasons).
Another point of discussion was: could we treat Husher as a "method" in positive training or not. Forum members have serious doubts in terms: is Husher P- or R. Basically, are dogs able to learn an alternative behaviour while Husher makes them to avoid barking and does it have an impact on dogs mental health?
And the perhaps most important discussion was about: how "humane" Husher is? Does dog suffer while having Husher on his nose?
For reference: The original Huhser webpage is here: www.husher.com.au

I'd never heard of this. Apparently the dogs can open their mouths. I'd suggest that basically this thing is management, certainly not negative punishment or any kind of reinforcement. Maybe positive punishment if it is uncomfortable to open the mouth. The dogs in the pictures all look stressed and unhappy, so I wonder if it is uncomfortable.

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Fri May 15, 2009 3:19 pm

I know a dog who can bark while her mouth is clamped shut. When she plays tug with my dog she can tug and bark at the same time!

spydre · Post by **spydre** » Fri May 15, 2009 3:54 pm

Noobs wrote:I know a dog who can bark while her mouth is clamped shut. When she plays tug with my dog she can tug and bark at the same time!

ROFL - Dodger does the same thing when playing tug!

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:31 am

Pawzk9 wrote:
Mattie wrote:Sorry I can't understand the posts but personally I don't like anything that goes over a dog's nose like that. If a dog is sick they will drown on it because they can't open their mouths to let it out. That alone is enough for me not to use one on any of my dogs. Dogs have drowned in their own vomit with a muzzle that goes over the nose like this.
I'd never heard of this. Apparently the dogs can open their mouths. I'd suggest that basically this thing is management, certainly not negative punishment or any kind of reinforcement. Maybe positive punishment if it is uncomfortable to open the mouth. The dogs in the pictures all look stressed and unhappy, so I wonder if it is uncomfortable.

Yes dogs can open their mouths but not wide enough if they are vomiting so it goes back down their throat and windpipe. Dogs like us open their mouths very wide when vomiting.