Hi Nettle,
The problem with Gemma getting too attached to me or us is that we go away regularly for months at a time. I would love a dog myself, but they need more consistency than this. In fact I will be going away for a couple of weeks probably next week.
I don't know whether the sister knows about this, I doubt it as he wouldn't have had time to discuss. I don't know anything about the sister, whether her training methods and interaction with Gemma would be more beneficial or not.
I do recall him saying that several people have said to him (and I think his sister was one of them) that they love Gemma so much they would like to buy her from him, and this was where I heard that he would only sell her for x thousand dollars, cos he reckons that is what she has cost him in vet bills and food etc. Pretty twisted thinking. It's like asking for $50,000 for a 30 year old bomb of a car because you've spent that much on petrol, servicing, mechanical repairs and detailing while you've had it!
I would really love for him to learn to enjoy walking her, because it has had such a positive effect on her, even prior to the bite, when I was using harsher tones and I think it would provide better continuity for her if the walks continue, even with a different person.
HELP! Dogsitting - Dog Bit my Neighbour UNPROVOKED
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
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Fundog
- Posts: 3874
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:31 am
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Belrose, I've been following this thread with interest, and I have to compliment you on the progress you've made-- Gemma actually following you around just to bask in your presence-- WOW! Pat yourself on the back, and toss yourself a treat, girlfriend!
As for Gemma's owner: This guy sounds like someone my grandmother would call a "knothead." He is a complete idiot. I sure hope he hasn't sired any children, and I hope he doesn't plan to any time in the near future-- certainly not without some extensive parenting classes first! (I've seen too many youth who are the products of parents like your flat-mate). It's bad enough for a dog; can you imagine how he might ruin a human child? I shudder to think of it.
As for Gemma's owner: This guy sounds like someone my grandmother would call a "knothead." He is a complete idiot. I sure hope he hasn't sired any children, and I hope he doesn't plan to any time in the near future-- certainly not without some extensive parenting classes first! (I've seen too many youth who are the products of parents like your flat-mate). It's bad enough for a dog; can you imagine how he might ruin a human child? I shudder to think of it.
Fundog, Don't give me too much credit, Gemma has always followed me around ... though not when her owner is home. I've often shared your thoughts on this fellow procreating, but he's made it to his mid-thirties without doing so, so maybe there's hope 
He is actually quite a nice person, just misguided and uneducated in a few respects I think. When i went to bed last night, the door to his room was shut and Gemma was nowhere to be seen, so somehow she wound up with him for the night, which is nice. I think it's something they both enjoy. I don't think I'd be letting a creature with that many fleas sleep on MY bed, but then, the cat does get a few fleas and I don't evict her then
The owner has promised we will all go to the vet today, so let's hope that it goes well and we get a really good vet who can solve her skin problems/fleas and maybe who also can see through her behaviour to the kind of training/interaction she needs.
He is actually quite a nice person, just misguided and uneducated in a few respects I think. When i went to bed last night, the door to his room was shut and Gemma was nowhere to be seen, so somehow she wound up with him for the night, which is nice. I think it's something they both enjoy. I don't think I'd be letting a creature with that many fleas sleep on MY bed, but then, the cat does get a few fleas and I don't evict her then The owner has promised we will all go to the vet today, so let's hope that it goes well and we get a really good vet who can solve her skin problems/fleas and maybe who also can see through her behaviour to the kind of training/interaction she needs.
UPDATE: Vet visit
Hi everyone,
Well we've just gotten back from the vet. My partner had to go out on a client visit, so it was just me and Gemma's owner. He was surprised that I was coming too, even though we'd discussed it. We called the vet she's been to before and they were booked out for the afternoon and it was going to cost $60 for 15 mintutes !! Shock horror. He wanted to drop the issue, but I got out the yellowpages and eventually found another vet who could see her today for $61.80 I think her owner was a bit nonplussed about this and was hoping to get out of it.
Unfortunately, although we were with the vet for half an hour, most of the discussion was about the flea allergy (now confirmed) and giving her a cortisone shot, some cortisone tablets to take, a different spot-on flea treatment and a tablet that will kill all the fleas on a dog within half an hour if you are too busy/lazy to bathe them! It's called Capstar if anyone is interested, I'd never heard of it. OK I just looked it up online and it STARTS within 1/2hr and is 95% effective within 24 hrs. Sounds like a bath will do a better job to me, but, anyway, it's not my dog. The vet did mention that her owner needs to clean his room a bit more regularly, vacuum, wash the bedclothes etc and initially fleabomb. He wants to move to a different room in my house in order to facilitate this and although it's the one right next to ours (please don't let the fleas get in there, please don't let the fleas get in there) I'm thinking I will let him do this.
Unfortunately, when I mentioned the compulsive biting, anxious fearful personality, how much better she'd been with regular walks, how her owner never walked her ... all he said was it would be better if enhancement techniques worked and then moved straight on. I think it went straight over her owner's head.
I mentioned the biting incident right at the end as the vet was shooing us out and all he said was keep an eye on her, give her a second chance, if she does it again, then it's serious and we might have to look at euthanasia. I was really hoping for a much more useful response than this.
Her owner was shocked and horrified at the cost of the visit - $170 odd (and the vet didn't even charge extra for the long visit, he could have added another $62 on!) although he paid it (I didn't offer to pay half in the end ... thought the $$ might wind up being the better part of the lesson! We didn't get a great deal from the vet).
So we've come home, the dog is full of fleas, I've offered that he can use the pyrethrin shampoo I use on the cat to kill the fleas if he wants to wash her, but he's lying on his bed playing with the computer and listening to music. After hearing how important it is that we get her down to 0 fleas ASAP. Her owner thinks that getting a muzzle for her might stop her biting at herself and apparently she can still drink through it. I think I'm going to need a muzzle soon!
Well we've just gotten back from the vet. My partner had to go out on a client visit, so it was just me and Gemma's owner. He was surprised that I was coming too, even though we'd discussed it. We called the vet she's been to before and they were booked out for the afternoon and it was going to cost $60 for 15 mintutes !! Shock horror. He wanted to drop the issue, but I got out the yellowpages and eventually found another vet who could see her today for $61.80
I think her owner was a bit nonplussed about this and was hoping to get out of it.Unfortunately, although we were with the vet for half an hour, most of the discussion was about the flea allergy (now confirmed) and giving her a cortisone shot, some cortisone tablets to take, a different spot-on flea treatment and a tablet that will kill all the fleas on a dog within half an hour if you are too busy/lazy to bathe them! It's called Capstar if anyone is interested, I'd never heard of it. OK I just looked it up online and it STARTS within 1/2hr and is 95% effective within 24 hrs. Sounds like a bath will do a better job to me, but, anyway, it's not my dog. The vet did mention that her owner needs to clean his room a bit more regularly, vacuum, wash the bedclothes etc and initially fleabomb. He wants to move to a different room in my house in order to facilitate this and although it's the one right next to ours (please don't let the fleas get in there, please don't let the fleas get in there) I'm thinking I will let him do this.
Unfortunately, when I mentioned the compulsive biting, anxious fearful personality, how much better she'd been with regular walks, how her owner never walked her ... all he said was it would be better if enhancement techniques worked and then moved straight on. I think it went straight over her owner's head.
I mentioned the biting incident right at the end as the vet was shooing us out and all he said was keep an eye on her, give her a second chance, if she does it again, then it's serious and we might have to look at euthanasia. I was really hoping for a much more useful response than this.
Her owner was shocked and horrified at the cost of the visit - $170 odd (and the vet didn't even charge extra for the long visit, he could have added another $62 on!) although he paid it (I didn't offer to pay half in the end ... thought the $$ might wind up being the better part of the lesson! We didn't get a great deal from the vet).
So we've come home, the dog is full of fleas, I've offered that he can use the pyrethrin shampoo I use on the cat to kill the fleas if he wants to wash her, but he's lying on his bed playing with the computer and listening to music. After hearing how important it is that we get her down to 0 fleas ASAP. Her owner thinks that getting a muzzle for her might stop her biting at herself and apparently she can still drink through it. I think I'm going to need a muzzle soon!
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Fundog
- Posts: 3874
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:31 am
- Location: A little gambling town in the high desert
Fact: Animals that are heavily infested with fleas, and are not treated, can become severely anemic. She could even end up needing a blood transfusion from another dog! ($$$$$)
Fact: Fleas are carriers of roundworm eggs, so animals who are infested with fleas can ingest the eggs (during regular grooming and what-not), and become infested with worms as well as fleas.
Fact: If the owner does not make a sincere/honest effort at ridding his dog of these parasites, it constitutes neglect, as her health is at alarming risk. I believe the animal stewardship laws you previously posted makes provision for this. Call the animal control agency in your area, and talk to them about it.
Gemma is at risk for becoming very, very sick, even dying!. What if she becomes so sick that either he cannot afford to get her well, or that she still dies, despite doing everything he can? What about his so-called monetary "investment" then, hm? He needs to decide now just how much this dog is really worth to him, and either take immediate action, or bail out before it's too late.
Fact: Fleas are carriers of roundworm eggs, so animals who are infested with fleas can ingest the eggs (during regular grooming and what-not), and become infested with worms as well as fleas.
Fact: If the owner does not make a sincere/honest effort at ridding his dog of these parasites, it constitutes neglect, as her health is at alarming risk. I believe the animal stewardship laws you previously posted makes provision for this. Call the animal control agency in your area, and talk to them about it.
Gemma is at risk for becoming very, very sick, even dying!. What if she becomes so sick that either he cannot afford to get her well, or that she still dies, despite doing everything he can? What about his so-called monetary "investment" then, hm? He needs to decide now just how much this dog is really worth to him, and either take immediate action, or bail out before it's too late.
I award you a medal for keeping your cool - MY housemate is a total numpty and thats putting it mildly and even HE wouldnt be this bad (I would read him the riot act!).
One thing im surprised the vet did not tell you - fleas.
Getting rid of the fleas on the dog is only part of the issue - if there are fleas on the dog... then there are fleas in the house. Not just his room.... the whole house. In the cracks in teh floorboards, round the edges of the room, in ALL the soft furnishings (your sofa, oh yep), any rugs or carpets - theres fleas there.
The reason is fleas dont live permanently on the dog - (here in the uk the usual type of flea found on dogs is actually the cat flea!) for a large part of their life they are eggs in your carpet or floors or soft furnishings, then they are larvae then they are juvenile fleas.... and its at that stage that they are hopping on and off your dog and you and your cat and your sofa....
(are you scratching yet?).
Im not sure if this applies but in the UK the flea is also part of the lifecycle of the tape worm, larval tapeworm inside flea - dog licks flea off self and swallows it... tapeworm inside dog. (Or whoever swallowed it... inc humans!!!)
So, treat the entire house - if you have a pet as well split the cost with him (you have a cat dont you?) but get the entire house treated with the most effective long lasting professional treatment available.
Flea shampoos are not very effective and the chemicals in them are not very good for the dog (or you or the cat in fact dog flea treatments can kill cats).
Anyway thats my 'offspring of pest control officer' bit done there.. (btw.. that advice would apply even if Gemma didnt live there and you only had a cat).
As far as his idea of muzzling his dog so she cant bite herself when shes driven mad by a flea allergy.... oh lordy.. there are not words!
One thing im surprised the vet did not tell you - fleas.
Getting rid of the fleas on the dog is only part of the issue - if there are fleas on the dog... then there are fleas in the house. Not just his room.... the whole house. In the cracks in teh floorboards, round the edges of the room, in ALL the soft furnishings (your sofa, oh yep), any rugs or carpets - theres fleas there.
The reason is fleas dont live permanently on the dog - (here in the uk the usual type of flea found on dogs is actually the cat flea!) for a large part of their life they are eggs in your carpet or floors or soft furnishings, then they are larvae then they are juvenile fleas.... and its at that stage that they are hopping on and off your dog and you and your cat and your sofa....
(are you scratching yet?).
Im not sure if this applies but in the UK the flea is also part of the lifecycle of the tape worm, larval tapeworm inside flea - dog licks flea off self and swallows it... tapeworm inside dog. (Or whoever swallowed it... inc humans!!!)
So, treat the entire house - if you have a pet as well split the cost with him (you have a cat dont you?) but get the entire house treated with the most effective long lasting professional treatment available.
Flea shampoos are not very effective and the chemicals in them are not very good for the dog (or you or the cat in fact dog flea treatments can kill cats).
Anyway thats my 'offspring of pest control officer' bit done there.. (btw.. that advice would apply even if Gemma didnt live there and you only had a cat).
As far as his idea of muzzling his dog so she cant bite herself when shes driven mad by a flea allergy.... oh lordy.. there are not words!
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NicolaLloyd
- Posts: 62
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- Location: Leeds
Wow I have only just seen this thread - what a lot I have missed!
I can't say I have read every single post entirely but I have read the majority and Belrose all I can say is well done - you are a saint to have put so much time and effort into trying to turn Gemma around. It would be very easy to just leave it as your housemate's problem. But, from what you have described, that would result in the problem getting worse and worse.
I can't help but wish that for Gemma's sake, her owner would appreciate that you would be a far better owner for her (even though you sound like you have been more of an owner to her than she has ever had from anyone else already). Would you take her on as your dog if he offered? Do you think he would ever do this? Just with him saying about maybe giving her to his sister, it might be an option? I know he would still be in the house but at least then you would be able to progress as you have been while he was away.
You have had some fantastic advice, all of which far more qualified than i could ever give. So I won't say anything in that respect. Just want to know that I for one think you are doing a fantastic job for this dog and it sounds like for once in her life she has found someone she can rely on and trust. Well done and the best of luck!
I can't say I have read every single post entirely but I have read the majority and Belrose all I can say is well done - you are a saint to have put so much time and effort into trying to turn Gemma around. It would be very easy to just leave it as your housemate's problem. But, from what you have described, that would result in the problem getting worse and worse.
I can't help but wish that for Gemma's sake, her owner would appreciate that you would be a far better owner for her (even though you sound like you have been more of an owner to her than she has ever had from anyone else already). Would you take her on as your dog if he offered? Do you think he would ever do this? Just with him saying about maybe giving her to his sister, it might be an option? I know he would still be in the house but at least then you would be able to progress as you have been while he was away.
You have had some fantastic advice, all of which far more qualified than i could ever give. So I won't say anything in that respect. Just want to know that I for one think you are doing a fantastic job for this dog and it sounds like for once in her life she has found someone she can rely on and trust. Well done and the best of luck!
I've been following this thread with interest and what I would like to do to the owner, your housemate would definelty be abuse!! 
I have to get on my soapbox here and say that people like him SHOULD NOT have pets! I really hope this "knothead" gets his act together and treats that poor little girl with the respect and care that she deserves.
Belrose you have done an amazing job looking after her and trying to help her and I hope (but doubt) that your housemate sees and appreciates that! It's a bummer that the vet you ended up seeing was so brusque about your concerns about the scratching etc.
I really hope that it all works out for Gemma. She sounds like a great dog that just needs to be understood and loved. Maybe it's not a bad thing that housemate doesn't get the flea thing fixed as it give you an outlet to report abuse?
Anyways, good luck and thanks for being such a caring gal! Please keep us informed!
I have to get on my soapbox here and say that people like him SHOULD NOT have pets! I really hope this "knothead" gets his act together and treats that poor little girl with the respect and care that she deserves.Belrose you have done an amazing job looking after her and trying to help her and I hope (but doubt) that your housemate sees and appreciates that! It's a bummer that the vet you ended up seeing was so brusque about your concerns about the scratching etc.
I really hope that it all works out for Gemma. She sounds like a great dog that just needs to be understood and loved. Maybe it's not a bad thing that housemate doesn't get the flea thing fixed as it give you an outlet to report abuse?
Anyways, good luck and thanks for being such a caring gal!
Please keep us informed!
belrose I think you need someone close to you to help and advise you, I am sure Jacqueline Marchant from www.cordysrescue.com.au will be more than willing to help. Jacqueline has been running her own rescue for quite some time now and is in Sidney. She is an incredible lady and will fight to the end for a dog.
You are welcome to tell her that Auntie M from the UK told you to contact her. I wouldn't like to cross her
You are welcome to tell her that Auntie M from the UK told you to contact her. I wouldn't like to cross her
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
Mattie, I had a look at the website (I was aware of Cordelia's, I came dangerously close to adopting a couple of dogs when I saw a poster at the local shopping centre, but we are renting and I am VERY aware of the great responsibility it is taking on another life, especially 2 big ones). It looks like Cordelia's Rescue has closed down, I am afraid. Do you have any other details for Jacqueline? I tried the mobile number (I think for Merryn or Jack perhaps) but it just rang out, with no voicemail. I would LOVE to just have someone who knows the local laws and situation to chat to if nothing else. The ladies at the RSPCA were lovely, but I think their hands were pretty much tied.
OOh I have a question, but I'll post a separate thread ... about whether Johnson's baby wash is OK ,... the vet said it wouldn't hurt?! Yet she was so much calmer after the cat shampoo!
Ok I've posted the question in General ... seemed the best place.
Oh, just to put your minds somewhat at ease, Gemma did get bathed yesterday, though not with the alacrity I would have liked to have seen and EVEN taken for a short walk over to the shops (5 mins, tied up while her owner did a bit of shopping then walked home). She still has fleas, which is a bit weird, cos the cat is usually free of them for at LEAST a day after. But I do it pretty thoroughly and he did it so quickly I didn't even realise! The shampoo, by the way is a natural one with pyrethrin extract from the pyrethrin daisy which is a really good deterrant to fleas. I actually found a live flea on Gemma before she was dry!
Wolfgal, Thanks for your kind words and good wishes. I agree with you 100%. It will be interesting to see what happens with the fleas. It will be so hard for my partner and I to stand back and let whatever happens happen ... we spend so much time picking fleas off her, spraying his room and even washing her.. But if that's the best way to resolve the problem (if he won't or can't change) then I guess it's what we'll have to do. Lordy ... he sure wasn't happy about the vet bill... wait til he sees what half the cost of pest control will be. Unfortunately the vet recommended just flea bombs, but I explained to him that they only work when the gas can get in everywhere and he is gonna have to clean up enormously for it to work, then vacuum regularly (who knows how much this bit will help, but I have an agenda ) The RSPCA also mentioned that if essential vet care was denied to Gemmy then they could issue an order for treatment, and if he did nothing, then they MIGHT be able to act.
Nicola, Thank you ... I know it's a ridiculously long post, and I am the WORST offender by a long shot, but it's so hard to get accurate information across about such a complex issue through just using words so I use too many words and hope if i give as much detail as I can, then it will help you guys to picture what is going on, and not miss out on any important details (such as the wheelbarrow likely being the cause of the biting incident) Oh btw, apparently Gemma always goes for the mower as well, her owner knew she didn't like wheelbarrows and thinks it's hilarious (that she sees them as a threat) I never knew this, because it didn't occur to me to chase her around the backyard with a wheelbarrow, for some reason. Grrrr. He seems to have about as much sympathy and compassion as a house brick. And that's probably being hard on house bricks. Grrrr
Unfortunately, though, much as I would like to improve her lot in life and am happy to walk her, play with her, stroke her, even train her to some extent, I do not want the responsibility of an animal as I tend to work in very demanding positions (I am trying, no I am succeeding in changing careers from nursing to project management, general management) with steep learning curves and we also go away a lot as we have elderly parents who live 6 hours drive north and my partner works for a company based in the same town. I just don't feel I would do a good enough job of providing what she needs consistently and I don't want to take an animal on if I can't provide exactly what I think they need. I wasn't even happy about taking the cat, but Mum said she couldn't cope with her anymore. Besides, for any good to come of it her owner would have to be removed from the picture I think. I can't see him ever giving her up unless it was to his sister (because of the safety of the neighbour or something) as he truly believes that he is a good dog owner. He seems to truly believe "she's a lapdog, she doesn't need exercise, she has a big backyard to run around in" and is blaming the flea allergy on some allergen in the house/yard now, refuses to believe that she had the two strips of hair missing on her back when she moved in... well he says it was from another dog biting her which is rubbish. But he was quite offended when I tried to say, "I remember her having this problem when you two moved in" ... he swears it was different and the first problem went away and this eerily similar problem has manifested because of something not his fault. He was very offended that I could think that and says that he takes very good notice of what is happening with her. This is half the problem ... he's not black and white evil, he's really a fairly nice person ... he just seems very immature for his age, and a bit too lazy and selfish to be responsible for another being. Oh dear, you've got me going now... I've had a rather trying 24 hours
I did find out that her microchip is registered in someone else name, the paperwork never went through to change the registered owner. Her owner bought her from a pet shop at 8 weeks, but somebody else bought her at 6 weeks (for a unit?!!) then the body corporate found out so they took her back to the pet shop to re-sell. She was docked sometime before her current owner bought her as well, so that no doubt caused some issues, I doubt it was done by a vet.
emmabeth, it took everything I had and then some, to restrain myself when he came up with the muzzle idea... That would definitely be cruelty of the worst form. There's apparently an old arabian saying - "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of your enemies and may their arms be too short to scratch them" It seems relevant here in some way. The day he came home, I told him there had been a flea infestation in his bedroom, we'd done the best we could to spray it and control it (but every square cm has stuff in it) and I recommended he not sleep in there until he could adequately deal with it ... he wasn't home for 20 minutes before he was in bed (at 4 o'clock in the afternoon). The lazy bastard hadn't seen his dog for nearly 2 weeks and he couldn't drag himself of his @rse to come for a walk with us or spend time with her, he wanted to lie in bed and watch the Simpsons. Far more important. "I'll come tomorrow" Did that happen? Of course not. Oh dear, now I'm really on fire.
Yesterday, after the vet incident, I cuddled her and soothed her then got out a couple of schmacko's and ripped them up into tiny bits (I've finally found something she's got a decent level of interest in ) and spent just 5 minutes going through come, sit, drop. She got it so quickly.... she was so good. She was so happy with herself... especially when she figured out that if she just stayed in the "drop" I consistently fed her schmacko's and life was pretty darn good I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing training wise, but it felt like the right thing to do and she enjoyed it. Today she is as skittish as anything, looking to steal food from the cat outside (pretty half-hearted when she saw me) and totally unfocussed with the training (and this was pork mince, designated cat food, and she was TOTALLY into it ) and half the time wouldn't even sit. Pretty much completely forgot the drop thing, I think only managed it 2x by accident. I don't really care about the results of the training and whether she can come, sit drop rollover whatever ... I can't really let her off the lead unless it's very secure now anyway, at least not for a bit, but I've been using the training as a way to reward her and build her confidence up ... (this was something I got from the CM website) and it seemed to be working so well. I'm worried that the change in her behaviour is because her owner is back and she's just not going to really improve while he is around. Oh gee, I've got to stop, if I vent anymore I think steam will come out my ears.
Thanks for the info on fleas ... I was vaguely aware of most of it ... but it's great to have it set out like that. I'm really not a fan of chemicals (I'm also a bit sensitive to a lot of them) so I've got some pyrethrin spray to use for our bedroom and living room and her owner will bomb his room. Interestingly, the infestation does APPEAR to be contained to his room.> At least it was really bad there and the corner of the loungeroom where my partner works (and the cat often sleeps) but nowhere else in the house. We are both quite aware when it comes to hygiene and wash our hands religiously after touching either animal for these reasons. Ooh you'll all laugh at this ... at the precise moment I read
OOh I have a question, but I'll post a separate thread ... about whether Johnson's baby wash is OK ,... the vet said it wouldn't hurt?! Yet she was so much calmer after the cat shampoo!
Ok I've posted the question in General ... seemed the best place.
Oh, just to put your minds somewhat at ease, Gemma did get bathed yesterday, though not with the alacrity I would have liked to have seen and EVEN taken for a short walk over to the shops (5 mins, tied up while her owner did a bit of shopping then walked home). She still has fleas, which is a bit weird, cos the cat is usually free of them for at LEAST a day after. But I do it pretty thoroughly and he did it so quickly I didn't even realise! The shampoo, by the way is a natural one with pyrethrin extract from the pyrethrin daisy which is a really good deterrant to fleas. I actually found a live flea on Gemma before she was dry!
Wolfgal, Thanks for your kind words and good wishes. I agree with you 100%. It will be interesting to see what happens with the fleas. It will be so hard for my partner and I to stand back and let whatever happens happen ... we spend so much time picking fleas off her, spraying his room and even washing her.. But if that's the best way to resolve the problem (if he won't or can't change) then I guess it's what we'll have to do. Lordy ... he sure wasn't happy about the vet bill... wait til he sees what half the cost of pest control will be. Unfortunately the vet recommended just flea bombs, but I explained to him that they only work when the gas can get in everywhere and he is gonna have to clean up enormously for it to work, then vacuum regularly (who knows how much this bit will help, but I have an agenda
) The RSPCA also mentioned that if essential vet care was denied to Gemmy then they could issue an order for treatment, and if he did nothing, then they MIGHT be able to act. Nicola, Thank you ... I know it's a ridiculously long post, and I am the WORST offender by a long shot, but it's so hard to get accurate information across about such a complex issue through just using words so I use too many words and hope if i give as much detail as I can, then it will help you guys to picture what is going on, and not miss out on any important details (such as the wheelbarrow likely being the cause of the biting incident) Oh btw, apparently Gemma always goes for the mower as well, her owner knew she didn't like wheelbarrows and thinks it's hilarious (that she sees them as a threat) I never knew this, because it didn't occur to me to chase her around the backyard with a wheelbarrow, for some reason. Grrrr. He seems to have about as much sympathy and compassion as a house brick. And that's probably being hard on house bricks. Grrrr
Unfortunately, though, much as I would like to improve her lot in life and am happy to walk her, play with her, stroke her, even train her to some extent, I do not want the responsibility of an animal as I tend to work in very demanding positions (I am trying, no I am succeeding in changing careers from nursing to project management, general management) with steep learning curves and we also go away a lot as we have elderly parents who live 6 hours drive north and my partner works for a company based in the same town. I just don't feel I would do a good enough job of providing what she needs consistently and I don't want to take an animal on if I can't provide exactly what I think they need. I wasn't even happy about taking the cat, but Mum said she couldn't cope with her anymore. Besides, for any good to come of it her owner would have to be removed from the picture I think. I can't see him ever giving her up unless it was to his sister (because of the safety of the neighbour or something) as he truly believes that he is a good dog owner. He seems to truly believe "she's a lapdog, she doesn't need exercise, she has a big backyard to run around in" and is blaming the flea allergy on some allergen in the house/yard now, refuses to believe that she had the two strips of hair missing on her back when she moved in... well he says it was from another dog biting her which is rubbish. But he was quite offended when I tried to say, "I remember her having this problem when you two moved in" ... he swears it was different and the first problem went away and this eerily similar problem has manifested because of something not his fault. He was very offended that I could think that and says that he takes very good notice of what is happening with her. This is half the problem ... he's not black and white evil, he's really a fairly nice person ... he just seems very immature for his age, and a bit too lazy and selfish to be responsible for another being. Oh dear, you've got me going now... I've had a rather trying 24 hours
I did find out that her microchip is registered in someone else name, the paperwork never went through to change the registered owner. Her owner bought her from a pet shop at 8 weeks, but somebody else bought her at 6 weeks (for a unit?!!) then the body corporate found out so they took her back to the pet shop to re-sell. She was docked sometime before her current owner bought her as well, so that no doubt caused some issues, I doubt it was done by a vet.
emmabeth, it took everything I had and then some, to restrain myself when he came up with the muzzle idea... That would definitely be cruelty of the worst form. There's apparently an old arabian saying - "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of your enemies and may their arms be too short to scratch them" It seems relevant here in some way. The day he came home, I told him there had been a flea infestation in his bedroom, we'd done the best we could to spray it and control it (but every square cm has stuff in it) and I recommended he not sleep in there until he could adequately deal with it ... he wasn't home for 20 minutes before he was in bed (at 4 o'clock in the afternoon). The lazy bastard hadn't seen his dog for nearly 2 weeks and he couldn't drag himself of his @rse to come for a walk with us or spend time with her, he wanted to lie in bed and watch the Simpsons. Far more important. "I'll come tomorrow" Did that happen? Of course not. Oh dear, now I'm really on fire.
Yesterday, after the vet incident, I cuddled her and soothed her then got out a couple of schmacko's and ripped them up into tiny bits (I've finally found something she's got a decent level of interest in
) and spent just 5 minutes going through come, sit, drop. She got it so quickly.... she was so good. She was so happy with herself... especially when she figured out that if she just stayed in the "drop" I consistently fed her schmacko's and life was pretty darn good I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing training wise, but it felt like the right thing to do and she enjoyed it. Today she is as skittish as anything, looking to steal food from the cat outside (pretty half-hearted when she saw me) and totally unfocussed with the training (and this was pork mince, designated cat food, and she was TOTALLY into it ) and half the time wouldn't even sit. Pretty much completely forgot the drop thing, I think only managed it 2x by accident. I don't really care about the results of the training and whether she can come, sit drop rollover whatever ... I can't really let her off the lead unless it's very secure now anyway, at least not for a bit, but I've been using the training as a way to reward her and build her confidence up ... (this was something I got from the CM website) and it seemed to be working so well. I'm worried that the change in her behaviour is because her owner is back and she's just not going to really improve while he is around. Oh gee, I've got to stop, if I vent anymore I think steam will come out my ears.Thanks for the info on fleas ... I was vaguely aware of most of it ... but it's great to have it set out like that. I'm really not a fan of chemicals (I'm also a bit sensitive to a lot of them) so I've got some pyrethrin spray to use for our bedroom and living room and her owner will bomb his room. Interestingly, the infestation does APPEAR to be contained to his room.> At least it was really bad there and the corner of the loungeroom where my partner works (and the cat often sleeps) but nowhere else in the house. We are both quite aware when it comes to hygiene and wash our hands religiously after touching either animal for these reasons. Ooh you'll all laugh at this ... at the precise moment I read
I had just lifted my hand to start scratching my neck ... more ghost fleasare you scratching yet?
mattie, I feel like such a fool. Jack called me back from seeing a missed call on her phone and I realised that Jack is Jacqueline. What an idiot I am.
I've sent her a link to this thread to get the background and maybe she can give me some local advice after that. She does sound absolutely lovely!
Thank you so much for suggesting I call her.
I've sent her a link to this thread to get the background and maybe she can give me some local advice after that. She does sound absolutely lovely!
Thank you so much for suggesting I call her.
Fundog,
Thanks for those points ... now that you mention it I think I have heard of animals dying from severe flea infestations and the cause being hypovolaemia. I will definitely bring all of that up if he looks like slackening off with the necessary treatment to keep her comfortable. I noticed just a few minutes ago, that one of the wounds on the inside of her lower back leg that had started to heal up a bit has started to ooze serous fluid and looks like if it follows the same path as previously, it will be actively bleeding tomorrow, not just raw. And this WITH cortisone injection yesterday and tablets today. I had a look for fleas, and didn't see any, so hopefully that new spot on stuff might be working a bit.
Unfortunately though, the "smiling" has started up again. When she came into the house last night, she raced up the corridor, checked the loungeroom then when she came back towards me she was "smiling" until she'd looked in her owner's room and seen that it was empty. This morning she was really fidgety and jumpy and "smiling" a lot, the same this afternoon when I went outside. She hadn't been doing it while her owner was away...
Thanks for those points ... now that you mention it I think I have heard of animals dying from severe flea infestations and the cause being hypovolaemia. I will definitely bring all of that up if he looks like slackening off with the necessary treatment to keep her comfortable. I noticed just a few minutes ago, that one of the wounds on the inside of her lower back leg that had started to heal up a bit has started to ooze serous fluid and looks like if it follows the same path as previously, it will be actively bleeding tomorrow, not just raw. And this WITH cortisone injection yesterday and tablets today. I had a look for fleas, and didn't see any, so hopefully that new spot on stuff might be working a bit.
Unfortunately though, the "smiling" has started up again. When she came into the house last night, she raced up the corridor, checked the loungeroom then when she came back towards me she was "smiling" until she'd looked in her owner's room and seen that it was empty. This morning she was really fidgety and jumpy and "smiling" a lot, the same this afternoon when I went outside. She hadn't been doing it while her owner was away...
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Paul&Muttley
I learned a lot from these posts
I am a newbie on this forum, and I was pleasantly surprised by the passion and intensity of those who responded to the OP's post, as well as her devotion to the wellbeing of this poor dog. I was attracted to the thread because I have a dog who once bit a friend in the butt, and then, in obedience classes, lunged and snapped at a dog, and a week later broke loose from me and seriously attacked another young dog. I won't go into great detail, but I think I understand the reasons for all of these incidents, and I am confident that Muttley is now stable and very unlikely to do anything so dangerous again. If you wish to learn the details, they are in the Muttley Story that is linked in my sig.
Briefly, though, a friend found Muttley roaming the streets in a bad neighborhood in Baltimore, with three other dogs. She rescued two, but he and his Rottie ***** were picked up by animal control. We got them out before they were put down, and I ended up fostering Muttley, but we could not find a suitable taker. I did not really want a dog, and he terrorized my cat and made messes in the house. I left him tied up outside when I was gone, with access to water and a doghouse, but usually I would allow him to stay in my bedroom.
I had a handyman friend help replace some siding on my house, and he was banging away while Muttley was whining and barking. Earlier, when they were introduced, Muttley cowered and I referred to him as a wimpy dog. But when my friend passed by, Muttley lunged and bit him in the seat of the pants. I yelled at him and whacked him, but now I understand that he was acting from fear and possibly being protective.
I had started posting on a couple of usenet newsgroups, first about his breed, and later about problems, including fleas. I got some good advice, and also much criticism, some of which was deserved, but I was very stressed and also wanted to find a good home for this dog, with whom I was starting to bond. A professional trainer offered free obedience classes, and eventually I took them.
We did OK for a while, but the methods included forceful corrections using a choke chain and prong collar. Muttley is very powerful and literally headstrong, so they did not really do much more than frustrate both of us as I tried to get him to heel by practically yanking him off his feet. The instructor made an example of us by showing how she could make him heel, so she put all blame on me, and then ignored our struggles because we had arrived to class late. When I tried to force him into a "down", he knocked me over and attacked a dog, and the instructor recommended I have him euthanized.
Since then I treated him very fairly and gently, and he has become a very loving and trustworthy dog, who has learned to interact peacefully with other dogs, adults, and young children, and able to be trusted alone in the house for 12 hours or more. I am learning more about positive methods and I can see that I still have much to learn, but this thread has really helped me understand a lot. I am not a total convert, and I even see some wisdom in Koehler's methods, but I am very happy with my dog, and I want to treat him properly.
I hope things turn out well for this little terrier. I now know what it means to share love with a dog, and it is a powerful bond.
Briefly, though, a friend found Muttley roaming the streets in a bad neighborhood in Baltimore, with three other dogs. She rescued two, but he and his Rottie ***** were picked up by animal control. We got them out before they were put down, and I ended up fostering Muttley, but we could not find a suitable taker. I did not really want a dog, and he terrorized my cat and made messes in the house. I left him tied up outside when I was gone, with access to water and a doghouse, but usually I would allow him to stay in my bedroom.
I had a handyman friend help replace some siding on my house, and he was banging away while Muttley was whining and barking. Earlier, when they were introduced, Muttley cowered and I referred to him as a wimpy dog. But when my friend passed by, Muttley lunged and bit him in the seat of the pants. I yelled at him and whacked him, but now I understand that he was acting from fear and possibly being protective.
I had started posting on a couple of usenet newsgroups, first about his breed, and later about problems, including fleas. I got some good advice, and also much criticism, some of which was deserved, but I was very stressed and also wanted to find a good home for this dog, with whom I was starting to bond. A professional trainer offered free obedience classes, and eventually I took them.
We did OK for a while, but the methods included forceful corrections using a choke chain and prong collar. Muttley is very powerful and literally headstrong, so they did not really do much more than frustrate both of us as I tried to get him to heel by practically yanking him off his feet. The instructor made an example of us by showing how she could make him heel, so she put all blame on me, and then ignored our struggles because we had arrived to class late. When I tried to force him into a "down", he knocked me over and attacked a dog, and the instructor recommended I have him euthanized.
Since then I treated him very fairly and gently, and he has become a very loving and trustworthy dog, who has learned to interact peacefully with other dogs, adults, and young children, and able to be trusted alone in the house for 12 hours or more. I am learning more about positive methods and I can see that I still have much to learn, but this thread has really helped me understand a lot. I am not a total convert, and I even see some wisdom in Koehler's methods, but I am very happy with my dog, and I want to treat him properly.
I hope things turn out well for this little terrier. I now know what it means to share love with a dog, and it is a powerful bond.
That's a wonderful outcome for you and Muttley, Paul. Well done, for persevering. He's a gorgeous boy, whatever his ancestry.
I've been holding off giving an update, because it's not the kind of update I want to give
Prior to her owner getting back Gemma and I were doing 5 minutes of obedience training 2-3 x day as an excuse for treats. She was very calm and settled again and seemed happy. She wasn't "smiling". Things have gotten progressively worse since her owner returned. The obedience training, which had been going along at lightning pace and working really well, practically stopped in it's tracks. She went from doing come, sit, drop with alacrity and enthusiasm all off a leash, to not even sitting while on a leash and with a gentle push on the bum end. She's so nervous it's not funny, and I think this is why she can no longer focus on obedience training, even for high value treats. I've stopped trying the obedience training because I don't think it is at all helpful to her at this point - her anxiety levels are just to high. Do you guys agree/disagree with this?
Unfortunately we haven't taken her for many walks since her owner returned, as we've been out a bit or the weather has been inclement, but there's nothing terribly new to report there. She still has really bad fleas, and her owner just thinks it's immoral to sell a product that "doesn't work" without tying the "need to clean your room up" bit with the flea situation which is much worse on his animal than mine. He put off moving rooms (and dealing with the flea issue) until this next weekend and I won't do the rest of the house if he's not going to do his room. I want it all done at once. The cortisone seems to be helping the skin itch problem a bit ... I don't see her chewing herself so badly anymore, but she does still have a raw patch on the inside of one of her back legs, which got worse after the cortisone (started bleeding) so she's probably still chewing to some extent ... but then so would I if I had that many fleas.
Actually, there is an interesting development and I wonder what you all think of it... my other flatmate's brother has a labrador, 14 years old I think ... a lovely dog, we've met him before when we've dropped him off and his brother has been given a job opportunity overseas ... Bulgaria I think, and we might wind up looking after the dog for what time remains to him. He's very arthritic and slow walking, a little on the pudgy side like most elderly labs, but he has a beautiful nature. I wonder if this eventuates, if it might have a positive, calming effect on Gemma ... maybe she will see that there's no need to be afraid of people ... well all people. I've lost almost all hope of rehabilitating Gemma to any extent while her owner is in her life and I don't think it's likely that he will not be. We'll do what we can, but I don't think it's going to be enough. Her behaviour has just deteriorated so much since he returned. Oh ... she's gone back to smiling and little air-snaps now whenever she greets anyone, myself and my partner included. Men far more so, not surprisingly. I hadn't noticed the air-snap thing before, but I may just not have seen it. Is this a good thing, in that she feels able to be more expressive perhaps? Or is she more anxious I wonder?
Thanks for all your input everyone, I've learnt an awful lot from this forum, whether it's for Gemma's benefit or when I finally get another dog.
I've been holding off giving an update, because it's not the kind of update I want to give
Prior to her owner getting back Gemma and I were doing 5 minutes of obedience training 2-3 x day as an excuse for treats. She was very calm and settled again and seemed happy. She wasn't "smiling". Things have gotten progressively worse since her owner returned. The obedience training, which had been going along at lightning pace and working really well, practically stopped in it's tracks. She went from doing come, sit, drop with alacrity and enthusiasm all off a leash, to not even sitting while on a leash and with a gentle push on the bum end. She's so nervous it's not funny, and I think this is why she can no longer focus on obedience training, even for high value treats. I've stopped trying the obedience training because I don't think it is at all helpful to her at this point - her anxiety levels are just to high. Do you guys agree/disagree with this?
Unfortunately we haven't taken her for many walks since her owner returned, as we've been out a bit or the weather has been inclement, but there's nothing terribly new to report there. She still has really bad fleas, and her owner just thinks it's immoral to sell a product that "doesn't work" without tying the "need to clean your room up" bit with the flea situation which is much worse on his animal than mine. He put off moving rooms (and dealing with the flea issue) until this next weekend and I won't do the rest of the house if he's not going to do his room. I want it all done at once. The cortisone seems to be helping the skin itch problem a bit ... I don't see her chewing herself so badly anymore, but she does still have a raw patch on the inside of one of her back legs, which got worse after the cortisone (started bleeding) so she's probably still chewing to some extent ... but then so would I if I had that many fleas.
Actually, there is an interesting development and I wonder what you all think of it... my other flatmate's brother has a labrador, 14 years old I think ... a lovely dog, we've met him before when we've dropped him off and his brother has been given a job opportunity overseas ... Bulgaria I think, and we might wind up looking after the dog for what time remains to him. He's very arthritic and slow walking, a little on the pudgy side like most elderly labs, but he has a beautiful nature. I wonder if this eventuates, if it might have a positive, calming effect on Gemma ... maybe she will see that there's no need to be afraid of people ... well all people. I've lost almost all hope of rehabilitating Gemma to any extent while her owner is in her life and I don't think it's likely that he will not be. We'll do what we can, but I don't think it's going to be enough. Her behaviour has just deteriorated so much since he returned. Oh ... she's gone back to smiling and little air-snaps now whenever she greets anyone, myself and my partner included. Men far more so, not surprisingly. I hadn't noticed the air-snap thing before, but I may just not have seen it. Is this a good thing, in that she feels able to be more expressive perhaps? Or is she more anxious I wonder?
Thanks for all your input everyone, I've learnt an awful lot from this forum, whether it's for Gemma's benefit or when I finally get another dog.
