Intact or Neutered? just curious

[Knineschilling]

Wanted to know what people thought on this subject. Physical development, behavior, age it could or should be done, or that it doesn't need to be done.

For me I have 3 intact male shepherds 2 1/2yr, 3yr, 5yr. I don't have any plans on neutering them and I don't have any problems between them or with other dogs.

[emmabeth]

I'm generally of the opinion that if there is no problem, either with the dog itself OR the environment - ie, the entire dog does not live with an entire ***** AND people who can't be trusted to safely manage them, or say, the entire dog lives in a place with an insecure yard and there are a lot of entire bitches around with similarly insecure fencing, then leaving animals entire is not a problem.

I live with an idiot who generally speaking, can't be trusted - so I neuter my animals once they are physically and mentally mature, somewhere after 2 years old, because I keep dogs and bitches, and live in an area with a lot of off lead animals.

Personally i am fairly anti animals being neutered pre-puberty and pre maturity, though I recognise that rescue organisations DO have a responsibility to ensure animals they rehome do not add to the population... but I wouldn't take on a dog from a rescue that was neutered under 12 months of age myself!

[Swanny1790]

I neuter or spay any dog or b*tch I don't intend to breed after puberty, primarily to avoid unintended breedings. It takes 2 full seasons in harness to assess the potential of a sled dog, and it would be foolish to prematurely sterilize a dog who proves to be a "superdog", as well as detrimental to the dog's health.

[vix86]

I have a 5yr old schnauzer and he is in tact. But my vet has advised me that from around the age of 7 onwards he could develop prostate problems. So as he is a placid dog at the moment I would keep him that way until nearer the time where it could have an impact on his health more than anything else. I think its down to preference

Victoria

[vicki]

Our dogs have been neutered/spayed as they were from a shelter who did this before releasing the animals to us. Our terrier was neutered at around 10 months of age though and he has behaviour issues do to being neutered so young. (In my opinion, anyway!)

Personally I can only ever see myself rehoming dogs so I'm happy to spay/neuter my mixed breeds once they're old enough if the shelter hasn't done it already

[ClareMarsh]

The sex organs are responsible for a lot more than reproduction. I don't think we know anywhere near the full extent of the impact of removing them either pre or post puberty. So I'm with Emmabeth, provided the situation the dog lives in means it won't be able to have unwanted litters my preference is for dogs to be left entire.

In particular I don't like how flippant "we" have become about slicing pieces off our animals for our own convenience

[Suzette]

In particular I don't like how flippant "we" have become about slicing pieces off our animals for our own convenience

While I don't totally disagree with this sentiment, I believe that the reason so many have this attitude is due to the veterinary community cramming it down our throats that we must, must, must spay/neuter before puberty. My experience is that the majority of vets have simply not kept up with the times and educated themselves on why (in most cases) it is so important to allow dogs to fully mature before considering this step. I can't tell you how many wonderful dog owners I've met along the way (and I used to be one of them, once upon a time), very proudly tell me that, oh yes, they are 'responsible' pet owners and altered their dog very early, per their vets recommendation.

And if I'm to be perfectly frank, it doesn't help that a well-known positive trainer/behaviorist has a video out there where she is discussing this topic with a veterinarian, and when he talks about altering pre-puberty, she does not dispute his belief that this is a good idea, in fact, she seems to support it.

Education is key, and ideally, it needs to begin in the veterinary clinics and hospitals, since the vast majority of folks consider them the final authority on this subject. But since that doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon, folks need to do their own research and educate themselves before making this decision.

Personally, I chose to spay my dog after she turned two and was fully mature in mind and body. I didn't make the decision lightly, but in the end, I believe I made the right decision for my dog and my family. So my two cents is that I don't think it's the end of the world to alter after maturity, but neither is it usually an absolute necessity either as long as you are a responsible, knowledgeable intact dog owner. It's all about knowledge and assessing your own circumstances.

[Swanny1790]

It's all about knowledge and assessing your own circumstances.

Therein lies the problem. The more we learn, the more we realize we don't know (hopefully), yet only a small percentage of dog owners make the effort to learn the information that science and / or the experiences of others have shown. In our increasingly urbanized society, most people no longer have the benefit of having been raised caring for animals so the typical young adult knows less about animal physiology, psychology and behavior than they know of their own, and too many know precious little of their own.

That's why trainers can earn a living, but in an unregulated profession the ratio of uneducated amateurs to highly educated and trained professionals is wildly askew and many of the amateurs are as quick to recommend early sterilization as are many vets.

I recently ran across a gun dog "trainer" in my area who's only education is what he's "learned" watching reruns of a popular albeit misguided program aired on Nat Geo. By the time our conversation was finished my tongue was bloody from biting it so darned much.

[Suzette]

I hear you swanny. And that's exactly why we cannot always rely on what Nettle calls "received wisdom". It's often outdated and sometimes plain wrong or even dangerous thinking. We can no longer rely on what we have "always been told", or in the case of your gundog acquaintance, what we see on tv.

We have to educate ourselves. And while I'll be the first to admit that the internet is in many ways a junkyard of useless information, it can also be a wealth of information. It's all in how you use it.

[lucyandbella]

I'm working as a bather in a grooming salon. I would say only 10 percent of the dogs that come in are well cared for, the rest neglected. Horribly matted, covered in fleas, yeast infections, ear infections, foxtails, etc. i think many of these dogs are left in the yard all the time with little human interaction and care. this and my experience volunteering at animal control shows me how many irresponsible owners there are in my area. There are also so many people that open their front doors and let there dogs out front unsupervised, meaning they run around the neighborhood unsupervised. So perhaps in this case I see why encouragement to spay and neuter is a good thing, and making your life difficult to own an inact dog is hard (extra fees, a lot of them).

That being said I'm not rescuing the next dog and one of the reasons is the fact that if I get an 8 week old puppy it will most likely be neutered at 8 weeks, if I'm lucky 4 months of age. I'm not okay with that knowing what I know now (both my 2 current dogs were spayed as young puppies because of the rescue too). I will probably be ridiculed for not neutering him, and I will have to pay a yearly fee until I do neuter him (if I do at the age of 2).

[doggiedad]

i've never neutered my dogs. to the OP, i have a Shepherd.

[Ari_RR]

Before we got Ari, we were looking at a totally different breed... And ended up not getting the puppy because the breeder was adamant about putting "not to be neutered" or some such clause in the contract, and that rubbed me the wrong way, after all I thought this ought to be my decision - neuter or not, show or not, breed or not, etc.

Anyway - here we are, my boy Ari will be 3 y.o. in a couple of months, still intact. I guess some things are just meant to be..

The only thing, at this point, that goes through my mind as a potential positive of neutering - is that he gets attacked sometimes by other males. I should probably say "disliked"... "Attacked" is perhaps an overstatement, he is no angel himself when it comes to manners with large males, and gives as much as he takes.. But in any event, he is 100% reliable with girls of all shapes and sizes, with all puppies, and with small dogs of all kinds... But it's a 50/50 with large males, which I feel somehow is linked to him being a rare intact exception in the mostly neutered doggie world around here.. Which makes it a bit of a pain for us.

That said - we have no plans at this point, i am just thinking aloud on this topic...

I agree with the point that environment matters, and ability (not just desire) to be a responsible owner matters too, after all life is bigger than just being a dog owner, people often have time/health/financial/etc constraints... So, neutering after reaching maturity may well be the responsible thing to do, in more than a few cases.