Control conflict aggression (dominance) by Brenda Aloff

[runlikethewind]

Hello

My friend lent me this huge book on aggression so I could read up on the rescue dog's fears of strangers. Anyway, I was reading one of her categories of aggression was called Control conflict aggression (she wants it noted that this is her renaming it from dominance aggression). I know I have learnt and you advise that this does not exist but this book explains that this is type of aggression is real and abnormal (as all aggression is) and that dogs who display this aggression are seeking to control things that go on around them. It says they look for some slight to their authority and do battle over it each and every time. They don't have any other mechanisms for conflict resolution. They have an inability to learn normal social tolerance - a dog like this is maladaptive, insecure and cannot cope with even low levels of frustration.

The book described an example where a man was sleeping on the sofa, the dog was awake on the floor, the man accidently touched the dog's shoulder but that he was not startled.. (allegedly wife said) and bit the man who needed stitches.

These dogs are very intolerant to being touched and become irritable very easily and get irritated if a human tries to control them - such as blocking a walk way. They will move very very slowly when you seek to ask something of them they are irritated with. They may exhibit affectionate behaviour and can be pushy with this and when the victim responds, he warns you with a growl or snap. This means the dog ends up never been touched....

Reinforcing this type of aggression is by endlessly indulging in avoiding what the dog cannot tolerate - always granting the dog success by his pushiness and aggression to get what he wants. The dog never learn tolerance and frustration. The book then goes onto to advocate a handling and restraint protocol using massage and t-touch with a muzzle on if required.. but that if your dog stares at you and freezes.. then it is time to call in a specialist....

Have the trainers read this book? - the rest of it seems really good for other types of aggression. Reading this has made me think back to my other dog's aggression towards us because what was described is (not all the time) but often what occurs with him. ie we never touch our dog when he is on the sofa.. he gives the hard eye and if you were to touch him... well you'd know about it. What do you think about this? It sound like the protocol is to force the dog to being touched (ie with the muzzle on). What about just respecting the dog does not like being stroked or touched?

Or is it just a simple case that the dog needs space, needs to be respected. That it's not a question of not being indulged or being on a higher status than he should be. We had a slight incident this evening which made me question about rank etc. I was sitting on the sofa (in my dog's usual spot even though he has his own bed) and he put two paws on me. I scritched his shoulder (which he likes more of nowadays) and he just had a right go at me. I didn't move, just looked away and he went off to his OWN bed..How about that! I think we should go back to more rules in the household. He should not be on the sofa. They don't sleep on the bed now anyway as we have two now. He does do the classic stuff as described in this book - ie when I ask them both to sit for their meals. The girl is so eager and ready and waiting and the boy does it r-e-a-l-l-y slowly..... Stuff like that you know.

[Noobs]

What year was the book written?

[runlikethewind]

Hi Noobs

2004

I know what you're thinking.. but she says she gets annoyed with trainers labeling dog as dominant. So it's not that sort of book but I know why you were asking

[jakesmom]

There are humans with personality disorders and illnesses that are hard to recognise, I don't think it would be a surprise if some dogs have the same problems.

[runlikethewind]

Well indeed I have wondered about this. But it's not 'cocker rage' type aggression which is also mentioned in the book. I'd like to understand the views on this 'category' of aggression

[nightsrainfall]

I'm confused both on what exactly the situation is (the aggression exactly, ie the hard look, the snap, or being constantly aggressive if touched?) and then what you are asking.

I recognize good parts of what you wrote in the original section with my parent's schnauzer, but that dog has mellowed through the years. Originally, there would be times were you go to pet him or do something, and he'd look at you. If you didn't catch his drift, you got bit (snapped at). I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about, or if you are talking about dogs who are always aggressive when touched, or pertaining to a certain thing.

Sorry if this is a strange question - I think my brain shut off early for the night... :-/

[jacksdad]

Hi Noobs

2004

I know what you're thinking.. but she says she gets annoyed with trainers labeling dog as dominant. So it's not that sort of book but I know why you were asking

but solely based on your review of the book, I have to say her "control conflict aggression" sounds like the same old, same old "dominance" catch all explanation.

[Nettle]

From what you said of the book, it makes no sense. Dogs like their space, we like our space. There's always a whole lot going on behind every snap and growl.

Personally, I find true agression as rare as rocking-horse droppings - it's almost always linked to fear, misunderstanding or pain.

[runlikethewind]

The change of terminology is explained here, just out of interest. I think this is what I experience with my male dog. he wants to be petted and then growls!!

http://www.ehow.com/about_6637582_aggre ... ining.html

and here

http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Treat-Co ... on-in-Dogs

and here

http://www.roanoke.com/pawsclaws/wb/276862

[Mattie]

Hello

My friend lent me this huge book on aggression so I could read up on the rescue dog's fears of strangers. Anyway, I was reading one of her categories of aggression was called Control conflict aggression (she wants it noted that this is her renaming it from dominance aggression). I know I have learnt and you advise that this does not exist but this book explains that this is type of aggression is real and abnormal (as all aggression is) and that dogs who display this aggression are seeking to control things that go on around them. It says they look for some slight to their authority and do battle over it each and every time. They don't have any other mechanisms for conflict resolution. They have an inability to learn normal social tolerance - a dog like this is maladaptive, insecure and cannot cope with even low levels of frustration.

You have done it again, forcing me to use my poor old brain

Dominance aggression does exist, it is the hander using force to stop an aggression problem. Take a dog with food aggression, anyone goes near the dog he growls and will snap if they don't move away, the handler using dominance to solve this problem by forcing the dog to accept what he does when he is eating. When a handler alpha rolls a dog they are using dominance aggression to solve the problem.

The book described an example where a man was sleeping on the sofa, the dog was awake on the floor, the man accidently touched the dog's shoulder but that he was not startled.. (allegedly wife said) and bit the man who needed stitches.

According to the wife the dog wasn't startled but what did the dog say? That sounds stupid but we all know how us humans misinterprete what dogs are saying and doing, that is only the wife's view. Dogs always have a reason to bite, it is us humans who often don't see the reason.

These dogs are very intolerant to being touched and become irritable very easily and get irritated if a human tries to control them - such as blocking a walk way. They will move very very slowly when you seek to ask something of them they are irritated with. They may exhibit affectionate behaviour and can be pushy with this and when the victim responds, he warns you with a growl or snap. This means the dog ends up never been touched....

I don't always like being touched, I can be very irritable if someone does especially if I am not expecting it. Try controlling me when I am annoyed, nobody has managed to do that yet, in fact you will see people running.

Being pushy with affectionate behaviour often is the dog has been deprived of affection, children who have been deprived of affection are often pushy for it. Often with a dog when they demand affection the human misunderstands and does it wrong so the dog growls, the human thinks "I am not going to let a dog control me" and ignores the growl so the dog bites. Dogs take the trouble to learn to read us but we don't bother to learn to read our dogs.

Reinforcing this type of aggression is by endlessly indulging in avoiding what the dog cannot tolerate - always granting the dog success by his pushiness and aggression to get what he wants. The dog never learn tolerance and frustration. The book then goes onto to advocate a handling and restraint protocol using massage and t-touch with a muzzle on if required.. but that if your dog stares at you and freezes.. then it is time to call in a specialist....

Only because the human goes about it in the wrong way, if this dog was with someone who understood dogs better this wouldn't happen. Tilly can be like this, she is very pushy at times for affection but the worst thing I can do is to force her to accept it, TTouch does help but putting a muzzle on will make her panic. She is like this because she has no self confidence, she needs a prop to lean on, in the past her props were Gracie and Ellie, now it is my tearaway Dolly who she leans on. As long as Dolly is happy with this and Tilly isn't leaning too much, I let her do it.

I park my car on the part of the pavement were I can get my car on and off, one of my neighbours doesn't like this, says I am damaging his grass verge, the verge belongs to the council and my car isn't on it. He rants and raves at me but has never asked me not to leave my car there, he is being really bad mannered so I continue to put my car there. If/when he has the manners to ask properly I will talk it over with him.

Have the trainers read this book? - the rest of it seems really good for other types of aggression. Reading this has made me think back to my other dog's aggression towards us because what was described is (not all the time) but often what occurs with him. ie we never touch our dog when he is on the sofa.. he gives the hard eye and if you were to touch him... well you'd know about it. What do you think about this? It sound like the protocol is to force the dog to being touched (ie with the muzzle on). What about just respecting the dog does not like being stroked or touched?

Why should we force a dog to accept being touched when they don't want it? Would we accept someone touching us when we don't like it? I know I won't and won't force my dogs either. When I went on a TTouch workshop nothing was forced, the dog was encouraged to accept it but no force was used. Joe had a really bad panic attack at the workshop, Marie Miller was doing it, she asked one of her helpers, Rachel, many know her from other forums, think she used to be 7 lurchers, to put a body wrap on him and TTouch him. This wasn't forced on him, Joe was wary of strangers so backed away from Rachel at first, within 10 minutes Joe was fast asleep on the floor, totally relaxed with the TTouch but he wasn't forced to have it. Joe had brain damage and stress like being forced or meeting a strange dog would often lead to him having a stroke later, he never had one and worked happily with the other dogs moving round him when we were doing exercises.

Or is it just a simple case that the dog needs space, needs to be respected. That it's not a question of not being indulged or being on a higher status than he should be. We had a slight incident this evening which made me question about rank etc. I was sitting on the sofa (in my dog's usual spot even though he has his own bed) and he put two paws on me. I scritched his shoulder (which he likes more of nowadays) and he just had a right go at me. I didn't move, just looked away and he went off to his OWN bed..How about that! I think we should go back to more rules in the household. He should not be on the sofa. They don't sleep on the bed now anyway as we have two now. He does do the classic stuff as described in this book - ie when I ask them both to sit for their meals. The girl is so eager and ready and waiting and the boy does it r-e-a-l-l-y slowly..... Stuff like that you know.

Nothing to do with rank, it has a lot to do with him having a favourite, very comfortable place to sleep in, your sofa. I am probably wrong but he wasn't asking for his shoulder to be scritched but for the sofa, you misread him so he had a go at you to tell you that he wanted that place. I wouldn't have moved either if a dog or a human had been that bad mannered in asking for the sofa.

When I ask my dogs to sit for their food or a treat they all do down at different speeds, Dolly puts her butt down then it is back up again, to her she had done as I asked, Bonnie and Tilly it depends on what I have how quick they go down, Cyril looks at me as if to say I don't understand, when I ignore him down goes his butt.

Can I have warning next time please when I have to use my brain, I am not used to it, it is my age.

[runlikethewind]

Hi Mattie!!

Thank you for your post and for taking the time to reply. I mustn't indulge him though as you say..I was sitting there. I shouldn't have to move for him if that is what he meant. But anyway, since all this, we are back to clear places for the dogs to sleep in - nice big beds they both have!!

[Mattie]

At some time after I get a new dog they decide that I should move for them, I just tell them to "Get lost" and carry on ignoring the dog. They sometimes object but eventually give up. They quickly learn that somethings never work so stop doing them.

[Fundog]

Mattie said:

These dogs are very intolerant to being touched and become irritable very easily and get irritated if a human tries to control them - such as blocking a walk way. They will move very very slowly when you seek to ask something of them they are irritated with. They may exhibit affectionate behaviour and can be pushy with this and when the victim responds, he warns you with a growl or snap. This means the dog ends up never been touched....



I don't always like being touched, I can be very irritable if someone does especially if I am not expecting it. Try controlling me when I am annoyed, nobody has managed to do that yet, in fact you will see people running. Image

Being pushy with affectionate behaviour often is the dog has been deprived of affection, children who have been deprived of affection are often pushy for it. Often with a dog when they demand affection the human misunderstands and does it wrong so the dog growls, the human thinks "I am not going to let a dog control me" and ignores the growl so the dog bites. Dogs take the trouble to learn to read us but we don't bother to learn to read our dogs.

Reinforcing this type of aggression is by endlessly indulging in avoiding what the dog cannot tolerate - always granting the dog success by his pushiness and aggression to get what he wants. The dog never learn tolerance and frustration. The book then goes onto to advocate a handling and restraint protocol using massage and t-touch with a muzzle on if required.. but that if your dog stares at you and freezes.. then it is time to call in a specialist....



Only because the human goes about it in the wrong way, if this dog was with someone who understood dogs better this wouldn't happen. Tilly can be like this, she is very pushy at times for affection but the worst thing I can do is to force her to accept it, TTouch does help but putting a muzzle on will make her panic. She is like this because she has no self confidence, she needs a prop to lean on, in the past her props were Gracie and Ellie, now it is my tearaway Dolly who she leans on. As long as Dolly is happy with this and Tilly isn't leaning too much, I let her do it.
_________________________________________________________

Mattie, I like what you said here, as it strikes a chord with me somehow. We already know that our Dottie was love starved in her first year, and so now can be rather demanding of affection. But we've noticed a little issue in that she will ask one of the boys or her daddy for some loving, but when they oblige her, she growls at them. They back off, and she will scoot herself closer and nudge her head into them, in a gesture that to us means, "more touching please," but then she growls again, which is very confusing and disconcerting. (apparently they are not doing it how she likes, or in the right spot?) I'm the only one whom she has never growled at for touching her. I think Mommy is Dottie's very most favorite person in the whole world.

[Mattie]

Could the growling be more like a cat puring Fundog? Some dogs do make a noise when they are enjoying themselves. Watch her body language, that will tell you more.