I'm at the end of my leash - considering meds now

[Kristybug]

I have 5 year old terrier, Dash. I got her from a pet store in Seattle when she was 8 weeks old (likely kennel was a puppy mill). She is papered as a miniature pinscher but I suspect she is more likely a manchester terrier mix, but aside from that she is definitely a mess. She has had severe anxiety since the day I brought her home. I have been able to manage her behavior by limiting contact with people she doesn't know and crating her when she is left alone. She did alright while I lived in Washington, I worked full time and she was used to being crated while I was gone all day at work. Now that I am in California, I am home all day for her to obsess over. Her anxiety has increased almost exponentially now that I am home all day. I have tried all of Victoria's techniques (leaving for short periods - ignoring her when I get home until she is calm) but nothing is working. I have resorted to crating her in a separate room where she cannot watch and obsess over me during the day, but she literally whines and screeches ALL DAY as long as she can hear me moving around. The screeching escalates if she hears me talk with a neighbor or if I open the front door for air. She will not chew on her delicious bones unless I am in the room with her. I tried the kong but she literally pooped INSIDE the kong when I left it with her in the crate.
Our routine: She sleeps in her own bed in my room at night. In the morning she lays in her living room bed while I eat breakfast. We go for a 2 mile run, then she goes into her crate while I do my homework and housework. It is at this point where I lose my mind. She never seems to calm down and when she does - how do I reward it without encouraging another wave of hysteria? At about 3-4pm I let her out of her crate, I make her lie in her living room bed while I get her dinner ready, then she eats dinner (Iams healthy naturals). After dinner we may go for a walk around the neighborhood or play fetch in the living room. After that we work on tricks (sit-stay-over-twirl-shake; she knows a lot of commands) I have stopped playing games when she initiates, and only play when I initiate. I read that I shouldn't reinforce any behavior where she gets attention by whining, jumping or pawing.

Oh wait - there she goes now. She must have heard my typing from across the house....

Somebody please help - I have simply run out of patience - It has been 5 years!
I am to a point now where I am ready to put her on medication, which I would rather not do.

[jacksdad]

If your home enough and you feel like you can give it one more try, and you are ok with reading and using a book I would recommend this one http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... on-anxiety

you have a real advantage with being home as it would allow you to follow a training plan far closer then someone who has to "go to the office". I would urge you to give this one more try to fix without going down the medication path. If possible, it might also be a good idea if you get a conformation as to what is going on from a good behaviorist and some hands on help.

I also live in California, if you want PM me your general area, you don't need to give me your exact address, and if it's close I might be able help you find a good behaviorist/trainer. I am in the San Fransisco bay area.

There are also some over the counter options for helping dogs calm down. Others will hopefully be here soon with those options. prescription meds while a legitimate path, do carry all the same risks and side affects when used on dogs as they do on humans as often the same or same type meds are used.

I can only imagine the frustration after 5 years, but hang in there and we will try and get you the help you and your dog need.

[Kristybug]

Thanks for the book suggestion. I will give it a try. I currently have been giving her an herbal tablet with chamomile - passion flower - ginger - and tryptophan to no avail. I am in the San Diego area. I have contacted some trainers in the area but so far they all focus on obedience where her issues are behavioral. If you know of any behaviorists in my area - please let me know because I am happy to give them a try.

I don't feel like being home is an advantage. I don't think she keeps this behavior up when I actually leave. I am pretty sure it is for my benefit.

[Zeldacorgi]

How long do you have her in the crate when you are home? What kind of attention do you give her when she's with you? Why can't she be with you when you're doing work? Does she bark? Beg?

[Kristybug]

I only started crating her while I am home a few days ago. She is now crated from 10a to 3 or 4pm. Her obsessive behavior has become unbearable for me. She follows me around and that is intrusive and unhealthy behavior. She paws at me and tries to climb on my lap while I am on the computer. She doesn't bark unless someone rings the doorbell or knock which doesn't bother me because it is natural for her to do that. She never begs, I never have allowed that. She used to be around me all the time, but that seems to reinforce the anxiety so when I do leave to go to the store or run errands her behavior is out of control. She began soiling the crate and would be in a frenzy by the time I got home. I read that first I needed to create some distance and reduce affection and attention by only rewarding good and calm behavior for a few weeks (hence the crate time during the day so she can't watch me and follow around).

Two days ago I put a baby gate at the top of my stairs and let her stay on the steps while I moved some furniture in the spare bedroom. She was so upset that she couldn't get to me, she pooped on the steps.

Right now she is with me only when we are either running or training. Otherwise she is allowed to lay in her bed by the sofa if I am reading or watching TV in the evening.

Right now she is calm. How can I reinforce the calm without stirring her up?

[LmJanes]

Dogs with SA are not funny to deal with. You can try the medication, but I believe it will not work. I don't mean to be pessimist because I know a several ones. I'm going to ask a couple of questions.

Have you tried to exercise her before you put her in a crate or room alone? Sometimes getting a good brisk walk help to tone down her SA, but it won't cure the problem though.

Have you done any OB training with her where you teach her to sit and stay or down and stay? If no, this will be a good place to start. When she knows what it means sit and stay or down and stay, you challenge her by walking out of the room for a minute or two. If she breaks her "down stay", you take her right back to the same spot. At first she might find it difficult, but after daily of practice she will eventually learn to relax a bit more. Later you tell her to down stay and you walk out the door and wait for a minute and go back to see if she broke her down stay. Repeat it. Again she will learn to relax a bit more, you increase the time from 1 minute to 2 minute to 3 minute to 30 minutes. I suggest you do this on a new soft bed with your t shirt (something that smell like you strongly) that represents her brain to relax. I can't see why it won't work. It takes a lot of practice and patience from you, but I can see it be successful.

[LmJanes]

I forgot something else to add. Reward her when she did her "down stay" exercise correctly with a lot of praise, and treats. Also, let her follow you around and hang out with you when she did what you ask her to do. You want her to realize that when you ask her to down and stay, it means she needs to keep her butt on the bed. She is not allowed to leave until you release her so she doesn't know when you will say "I'm home." It means she can come to greet you.

[Kristybug]

Thanks for the advice! You are right this behavior is no fun at all. I can't even take her to doggie daycare until I have it resolved. Victoria said once on her show that sometimes behavior cannot be changed and we have to learn how to manage it. This is one reason why I am considering medication; because I have tried positive reinforcement and so far nothing seems to ease her anxiety.

Yes, we run 2 miles before she is crated. She can do a perfect sit-stay when we are working together. And, yes I do let her follow me a little bit in the evenings as long as she is calm. I read that it is better to keep praise and rewards very low key to avoid extra excitement.

She will stay in the bed when I tell her to. I may remind her before I leave the room, but if I am gone for more than 5 or so minutes she comes looking for me. If she can't find me or get to me then she eliminates. The elimination is the main reason I chose to crate her during the day so I can get things done without having to steam clean the carpet every day.

I will start concentrating our evening training on stay and see if we can get up to 30 minutes....

[jacksdad]

Thanks for the book suggestion. I will give it a try. I currently have been giving her an herbal tablet with chamomile - passion flower - ginger - and tryptophan to no avail. I am in the San Diego area. I have contacted some trainers in the area but so far they all focus on obedience where her issues are behavioral. If you know of any behaviorists in my area - please let me know because I am happy to give them a try.

I don't feel like being home is an advantage. I don't think she keeps this behavior up when I actually leave. I am pretty sure it is for my benefit.

hummm San Diego. I was hoping you were Nor Cal. I don't know anyone down there. sorry.

being home is an advantage because your can let your dog be around you and that will reduce the anxiety, or should. rather than leaving your dog in the crate all day, maybe teach her that when your on the computer, she can be near you, but her Job maybe to stay on her doggy bed over in the corner in the same room. If she follows you around, let her, but 100% ignore her when she does it. don't look, don't talk etc make it very unrewarding and boring to follow you. If your sitting at the computer and she bugs you for attention, get up walk way and ignore etc. also you can use the time your home to start conditioning her to being alone. as suggested a sit stay, you turn walk away a few feet, turn come back. then build to leaving the room turning and coming right back, then leaving for 5 second, then 10 and so on. even going out the front door, turning around coming right back and building that up.

And because your home most of the day you can do these things randomly through out the day. 5 minutes, here, 3 there, etc.

Things like clicker training basic obedience skills and silly trick can help build confidence, which will help too.

I am really torn about your leaving her in her crate when your home. I am not sure that is helping.

[LmJanes]

if I am gone for more than 5 or so minutes she comes looking for me. If she can't find me or get to me then she eliminates.

I will start concentrating our evening training on stay and see if we can get up to 30 minutes....

Yes you can get it up to 30 minutes if my dog could stay down for hours when I asked. It is a long work in progress so you start with 1 minute and add up. You have to be committed so hopefully it resolves some of SA issues. I didn't want to confuse my dog with a long and short down so I use two different commands for down. One will last less than 5 minutes and another could a few hours.

[Noobs]

Kristy,

You're at home so you have the perfect opportunity to work on the SA. Emmabeth posts about this all the time so I'll refer you to some of her posts describing what you can do to help your little gal not be so dependent on absolutely having you in her presence all! the! TIME!

But firstly...CHILLLLLLLL...you are super stressed out, so pop a bottle of wine, rip a bag of chocolate, and relax... You won't be any good to your dog if you're this stressed out. So read these posts. All it requires from you is to have the patience to be booooring. Good luck!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6697#p44483

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6509#p43206

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7071#p47758

[Mattie]

Moving home can have a terrible effect on a dog, suddenly everything they have known is no longer there, what did you do to try and counteract this when you moved? It isn't easy, I moved home last December and had stressed dogs even though I was trying to counteract it.

You won't training this out of her, she needs to feel secure, she doesn't at them moment so training won't help much, it will make her more obedient to you.

When she is following you do you talk to her? Try ignoring her, only speak when you need her to move and only say enough to get her to move. I don't try to stop a dog from following me, I prefer them to find me really boring so take themselves off to do something else. This is working for my new dog Dolly, she was glued to me at first, now she is happy to go and do her own thing. When I left my house she would scream and bark until I came back, now she just makes one or 2 barks then nothing until she hears my car, then she starts. Dolly has been through several homes in her short life, she is just a year old, this has made her really insecure but that is going now.

Before you try to work with her you need to chill, you can't expect her to relax and feel safe if you are stressed out so open a bottle of wine, have chocolate cake, anything to relax you.

The problem with herbal remedies they don't always work for some, has there been any change in her since you started with the one you are using? Another to try is skullcap and valeria, my vets give this to stressed dogs.

Try clicker training to build up her confidence, which clicker training it encourages a dog to offer different behaviours, dogs have to gain confidence to do this, once they start their confidence gradually gets better. There is a very good thread in the Articles section which will tell you how to do this. I have seen some really good results with nervous/frightened dogs through clicker training including one of my own dogs who was terrified to come back to me thanks to his previous owner who beat him. With the clicker within 7 days his recall was 90%, 10 days it was 99%, quite spectacular to see the change in Joe as he gained confidence.

Good luck, please stay with us, we may be able to tweak things if they need adapting.

[Kristybug]

I appreciate the input everyone. I really do not want to resort to medication. When we lived in Washington she had her own backyard and would go in and out when she wanted to chase bugs and roll in the grass. Now we are in a townhouse and no private yard. Not only is she with me all day, she cannot go in and out when she wants. Nothing is more exciting than me. I can try to be more boring.

I will try something new today and see if I get somewhere with her. When I do crate her after our run I will stay in the hallway where she can see me. If she whines or screeches then I will disappear around the corner, sending her the message that the behavior gets the opposite result from what it is intended. After she is calm and relaxed I will let her out and we will work on the stay command. I think I will take that glass of wine

Maybe I can find a way for her to be able to go outside on the back porch without me to simulate the yard. I would love to see her act more independently.. Or put a treat ball in the kitchen and make the rule that she cannot take it out of the kitchen if she wants to play with it... She can only have the treat ball when she is away from me...

Maybe learning a new "trick" is a good idea to get her mind focused on something new. She knows so many tricks now they are all pretty routine. If I can get her anxiety under control I would love to start her in agility because she is a fantastic runner and jumper.

My husband is in the Navy and when we moved to Cali he started deploying for short periods. Maybe some of her insecurity is because he keeps leaving and she is afraid I will too?? I may be reading more into it but is it possible?

[Mattie]

I will try something new today and see if I get somewhere with her. When I do crate her after our run I will stay in the hallway where she can see me. If she whines or screeches then I will disappear around the corner, sending her the message that the behavior gets the opposite result from what it is intended. After she is calm and relaxed I will let her out and we will work on the stay command. I think I will take that glass of wine

Is there a reason why you crate her immediately you have finished your run? Could you spend 5 or 10 minutes with her first before she is put in?

If I can get her anxiety under control I would love to start her in agility because she is a fantastic runner and jumper.

Agility may help her gain confidence, it did with one of my dogs, she had given up and shut down, agility gave her a life again.

[Kristybug]

[quote="Mattie"]

Is there a reason why you crate her immediately you have finished your run? Could you spend 5 or 10 minutes with her first before she is put in?

[quote]

No particular reason I crate her right away. I can start giving her 5 or 10 minutes before I crate her.

I tried something new today. After our run I put the baby gate up and set her in the laundry room (where the crate is set up) and gave her a treat ball. I stood there until she relaxed and played with it. Then I moved in and out of her sight until she was able to keep her focus on the treat ball whether she could see me or not. My neighbor came over with her puppy so we all stood within sight until I heard Dash play with the treat ball (indicating she is relaxed) before I let her out to play with the puppy. She is extremely tense about having the puppy around. Should I ask my neighbor to stop bringing her over? Should I make Dash stay in her bed?

I tried the "taking the mickey" technique (where did that name come from anyway) before our run because i was trying to go upstairs. I ended up walking back and forth from the kitchen to the stairs at least a dozen times before she finally gave up following me and stayed with her bone. I need a bone she can't carry. I will be making a trip to the pet store later today to find a really delicious one. She is only 15 pounds so I should have no trouble finding one. Or maybe tie it to a doorknob downstairs so she can't get very far with it.

I will keep working with her but I can see myself getting very dizzy..

So far no screeching or whining.