New dog growling at old cat when on furniture.

[Bees]

Hi, this is my first post, I got my very first dog three weeks ago and there's one behaviour I'm having trouble rectifying.

My new dog, Fox, growls and snarls and my old cat, Holly, but only when he's on the couch or bed *and* with us and she is interacting with us.

Fox is nine months old. He's got some Pomeranian and Chihuahua in him as well as some other breeds. We're his third home. The first owner had a stroke and the second owner only had him for a month because their bigger dog was bullying him. She was jealous and would take all his toys and pin him down. This has left him very anxious which we're working on.

Holly is my 19 year old cat. We have had her for four years after a neighbour moved away and left her. She has always been okay with dogs and we always wanted a dog and now was the right time. Mostly Fox is very good with Holly. He ignores her. But sometimes it gets a bit too much and he tries to play with her. She hisses and bats him over the head and then they both carry on with their day. (Holly has a safe room she can get to but Fox can't, with her food, litter tray and a comfy bed.)

Holly used to sit on my lap in the evenings. Since getting Fox she has been a little wary but she's starting to settle around him and looks to want to sit with us again. My ideal situation is that they are both on the sofa with us in the evening. However if Fox is sitting with us and Holly looks to want to come up on the couch, or if I go to stroke her, he snarls at her. On the floor I make him sit when I give Holly some fuss, or I fuss them both together and Fox is fine. He will even sit calmly while I feed her treats and wait his turn to get treats too. They get ham, only when they're sat together. So I think it might be jealousy or him trying to keep us to himself when we're on the couch (it also happens on the bed).

My first instinct was, if Fox snarls at Holly then he looses his place on the couch and I immediately placed him on the floor. However this caused him just to chase Holly and scare her away from the couch. My next idea (which I haven't done yet) is to immediately put him in his dog crate. However, this is supposed to be his safe space and I don't want to associate it with punishment.

Fox is intelligent and obedient. All his bad behaviours stem from insecurity and fear. Other behaviours include barking at people passing the house, barking at strangers (and shaking and nipping if they try to stroke him) and barking at other dogs. I have been working on all these behaviours and he is improving so much even though it's only been three weeks. Strangers bring treats and dogs at a distance mean treats. It will take time for him to adjust and settle down and I aim to have a happy and confident dog who is fine around strangers and dogs. I know this will take time given his breed and history.

If anyone has any advice regarding what to do with Holly and the couch I would be so grateful. I miss having my cat on my lap in the evenings. Thanks.

[Fundog]

This sounds like classic resource guarding to me-- the resource being you. My second dog was very much the same way with our first dog when we first brought her home (only it was much, much worse). I would keep giving out ham only while they are both sat together. That's how I got my second dog to stop attacking our first dog (doling out treats to both with one on each side of me. I used my body as a barrier so they couldn't reach each other, since dog fights are nasty and dangerous). This will take time. With my two, it took about two weeks.

Oh, and in the first couple of days after bringing her home, my first dog would not allow the second dog up on the bed with us, even though we invited her. I guess she had to prove herself to the older dog. Animals often have a different set of social rules with each other than we humans envision for them, and to some extent we need to recognize and respect those rules.

[JudyN]

My first instinct was, if Fox snarls at Holly then he looses his place on the couch and I immediately placed him on the floor. However this caused him just to chase Holly and scare her away from the couch. My next idea (which I haven't done yet) is to immediately put him in his dog crate. However, this is supposed to be his safe space and I don't want to associate it with punishment.

The problem with this approach is that it is punishing him for the behaviour rather than address the underlying emotions - that he doesn't want to share you/the couch. You want to make him think 'When Holly is on the sofa with me, good things happen.' Can you have both of them on the sofa, with you, when you're not interacting with Holly? If so, then having got them settled, a distance apart, touch Holly and treat Fox... again and again and again, till he associates you stroking Holly with a great treat.

If this isn't working, if it's just raising stress levels, it might be worth changing your expectations at least for the time being. it's very early days and Fox hasn't had time to settle in and relax fully. You also really want Holly to feel secure around him or she may disappear into her 'safe place' and rarely emerge (sadly this is what has happened with our 17-year-old cat since getting our dog). It might be worth instilling a rule of 'Only one pet on the sofa at a time' and encouraging Fox to settle down on a bed nearby. Whatever keeps them both calm and unstressed is the way to go for now.

Strangers bring treats

Be aware that you can get the situation where the dog is still afraid of the stranger but allows them to approach because they see/smell the treat. Then, when they have eaten the treat, they realise they are far too close to a scary stranger. It can work better if you give the treat when a stranger approaches, but don't let the stranger approach closer than Fox is comfortable with. I would ask other people not to stroke him at all at this stage.

[Bees]

I wanted to say thank you for all your advice. I've been treating him when he sees the cat and it seems to be working. We have a long way to go, but it's great to see progress.

[Fundog]

Good! Give us another update later on so we can celebrate your success with you.

[Bees]

Well it looks like we're going backwards.

Fox won't sleep properly; he lies on the bed 'on guard' for when the cat comes in. I can feel how tense his body is. And when she does come in he goes crazy at her, barking and snarling. If I get the cat and put her on the bed, Fox is fine. If Holly sleeps on the bed, Fox is fine. If she leaves the room, he waits for her. It's when she comes in a jumps up he doesn't like.

Holly was on my lap on the sofa for the first time since getting Fox. Fox jumped up onto the sofa and sat next to me. No problems. But if Fox is on my lap and Holly comes in, same as the bed.

So right now I'm not sleeping because I'm waiting to see if Holly comes in. Sometimes she doesn't. I doze off, Holly comes in, I'm too late to treat and all I can do is grab Fox and move him away from her. Then I get upset.

In day to day life they're fine with each other. If Fox gets too close to Holly she hisses and swipes at him. She follows him around watching him from a distance. I think that's a dominance thing and Fox is learning to stay away from her. But it's also making him scared of her. And that's making him anxious and I assume what's causing these issues.

We've been practising with other dogs I know with Fox on my lap and the other dog approaching and treating Fox. He starts by growling but soon stops and I can stroke the other dog. Holly, being a cat, isn't someone we can train with because she does what she wants and if Fox barks too much she just goes away. I can't do the training all the time with other dogs as I'm relying on friends and family who aren't always available. I can't train with Holly because I'm not always quick enough to treat Fox because I don't always notice she's in the room before Fox does.

Getting stressed!

[Bees]

On a parallel and positive note, he's been off the lead while out walking on the beach. His recoil is excellent, he's good with other dogs (when off the lead), plays with them for a few minutes then comes when I call him. His training is perfect. He learned paw in three tries. He was perfect in the bath for the first time. He's loving and obedient. If I could just stop the issues with my lap/the bed he'd be the perfect dog.

[JudyN]

It won't be a dominance thing between Holly and Fox - the concept of dominance was flawed and outdated. It will be far more to do with Holly feeling anxious in Fox's presence.

I would simply ban Fox from sharing the bed & sofa with you. I know you really wanted to be able to have them both on the sofa with you, but it's not working out and causing stress for all three of you. And with Holly's age, I think it's only fair to make life as easy for her as possible.

You might feel this is unfair on Fox but he will get used to the idea and simply accept it. At first he will be sad that he's not able to have cuddles on your lap or sleep on your bed but he won't be thinking it's not fair, and he won't be jealous of and resenting Holly because of it. He will simply accept it as the new rule. So make sure he has a wonderful bed of his own, consider a crate in the bedroom so he can't sneak onto your bed in the night, and train him to go on the bed/in the crate.

You've done brilliantly with him given his history - well done

[Bees]

Thank you for your advice. I was thinking this might have to be the solution.

I would love for them to be comfortable with each other, but in the mean time it's better to make life comfortable for all of us. Fox was already crate trained when he came to us and I do try to leave him for some time each day (about half an hour to a couple of hours) so hopefully he'd sleep well in there.

I'll update and thanks again.

[JudyN]

Oh, I should add - there's no need to ban him from the sofa/bed when you're not on it. My dog knows he can go on them when no one else is. Though if I'm having a lie-in he does sometimes wake me up and tell me I need to get out of bed because it's his turn now

[Fundog]

It is possible to do some training with the cat. Although they tend to be independent creatures, yes, and you must convince them why this game is worth their while, cats can be trained, and do respond well to positive conditioning. I once had a cat who I had trained to play fetch!

[Bees]

It is possible to do some training with the cat. Although they tend to be independent creatures, yes, and you must convince them why this game is worth their while, cats can be trained, and do respond well to positive conditioning. I once had a cat who I had trained to play fetch!

Thanks, but it's a bit weird with Holly. She's a lovely cat and I love her to bits but she was 15 when she decided she wanted to live with us and already well set in her ways. She's always been a bit... nervy is the only way I can describe it. She loves being around us and will sit on your lap, but if you shift position she's off. If you stroke her when she's sitting or standing she walks off, and only wants to be stroked when she's lying down. She loves ham and wet food, but if it's in slightly the wrong position she won't eat it. She's always been this way, well before the dog came along and we just let her get on with it. I fully agree with you that it's possible to train a cat, but the amount of effort to train a 19 year old cat who you've only lived with for four years might be a bit too much.

I'm training her in a way as they both only get sliced ham when they're sat together and they both eat it happily. I think this one might take more time and patience than I've currently given it. I just know Holly doesn't have long left (although the vets said a few years - she's on medication for high blood pressure but is otherwise healthy) and I'd like to be a happy family sooner rather than later. Just got to keep putting the time in with both of them.

Oh, the other update is Fox has also started barking hysterically at the lizard (who doesn't care) and trying to play with the chinchillas (he's not allowed in that room but tries to get their attention from the doorway. I'm also working on both of those. He's just still la bit highly strung and needs to learn to be confident and relaxed. We have clear separation between play time and calm dog time which helps. But if anyone has any tips on relieving anxiety in dogs I'd love to hear it!

[Nettle]

Chinchillas = prey to him and it will always be so, which means you have to ensure he doesn't get the chance to even see them. You can't help that he can scent and hear them but seeing them will stress him (and probably them) mightily. I'd be inclined to keep him away from the lizard as well, because plenty of dogs want to kill reptiles too. You can't take the 'dog' out of a dog, so you have to take the dog out of the situation!

I love the way your cat has moved in and found you to her liking Can you find a treat she likes with less salt in than ham? On the one hand it makes sense that she can eat what she likes at her age, but the salt in ham is bad for her blood pressure and kidney function. Your choice: good reasons for carrying on as you are, and good reasons for stopping too.

[Bees]

Just a quick update as everything is still very much a work in progress.

Little by little he is calming down, especially around the cat. We allow him on the furniture with us, but only when Holly isn't around. If she's downstairs then he has to go on the floor and this seems to be working.

At night, we decided to have Fox in the room and close the door. As Holly only sleeps with us every now and then this has't upset her too much. Since I bought her a self heating fleecy mat which she has on the bed (next to the radiator) in her safe room she prefers to sleep there anyway.

Fox is mostly set off by things he doesn't notice until they're too close for comfort. This includes people wearing black when we're out for a walk in the dark and dogs that come round corners when he's not expecting it. I think this will get better when his confidence improves.

I took both of them to the vets. Holly needed a checkup for her medication and Fox needed his teeth checked for his insurance. Holly's blood pressure was up 'a smidgen' and my vet was happy that she wasn't being too bothered by Fox (Holly hates car journeys and there was a lot of barking in the waiting room before we went in so she put it down to that). Fox was too stressed to be looked at properly (she managed to just get a look at his teeth). I discussed all the options for helping him medically and we're going to try a DAP collar first and depending on how well it works, combine it with some pills if we feel we need to.

And in the meantime I'm trying to make all Fox's encounters with living things positive and he'll be going to training and agility in January. So hopefully combined, all this will help him get more confident and more relaxed.

[Bees]

Some pictures for reference.