Sloping backs and temperment

[Theo400]

Hi

I would like to get your opinion on temperament.

I already know that a lot of people here don't like the look of this kind of dog https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater They are from Absela GSD and the breeder/owner goes to Germany to breed. and what I want to ask is these are the type of GSD I was brought up around (yes I do prefer the working lines but I love the show line as well as Theo is a mix of both lines) and I asked my mom why are breeder breeding them with sloping backs and she said that they are bred for appearance and looks only and that GSD should have a slight slope but some breeders exaggerate the slope as its believed by breeders the longer the slope the better the gaint but she said this is not true however she said there is nothing wrong with owning a GSD from the show world with a sloped back as it dose not affect the dog at all in temperament and she said the reason we had them when you were young is because I preferred the show line as they were calmer than the working line and I was not interested in working my dog at all I just want a family companion I was not interested in agility, scent work or anything like that. but she said all my GSD lived way past 10yrs and never became ill as I choose from a breeder who's dogs had a good temperament and good hip scores.

so what I want to ask is to though who are not a fan of the show type why? is it just that you prefer the working line and don't like the sloping back?

im just curious on what people think.

many thanks
Theo and Sarah

[Nettle]

I'm not a fan of deformity in any breed.

Of course this has an effect on temperament - pain has an effect on temperament, and that level of deformity has to cause unnatural strain on various joints, bones and tendons.

There is also mental stress when the dog tries to do things that normally-shaped dogs can do easily, and can't. Not because the dog has any idea that its shape isn't good, but because owners ask them to perform exercises that hurt them.

I think show breeding in this case would make a far better pet. But be aware of the health issues. Also be aware of what people mean when they say 'work' because people have different ideas of what 'work' means.

[Erica]

Sorry if this post is a bit harsh; I love GSDs and have very strong opinions on them!

It may just be a bad picture but good lord those back legs on the more tan dog do not look happy. I would be surprised if they don't develop some kind of hip issue in their life.

I don't like show line GSDs because I believe dogs should be able to be dogs. If a dog is going to be bred, IMO it should be able to breathe, eat, run, and play without significant distress. The weak back legs in show line GSDs mean it's harder for them to run and play, especially as they get older. Our first GSD was a moderate show line dog; he had a slightly sloping back, much less extreme than even the dogs you showed, but once he hit 8 or so, he had trouble walking or standing up from a down. His hips gave out on him and he was nearly dragging himself around by his front legs alone before he passed away. I've yet to see a modern show GSD that didn't make me wince.

Temperament is unrelated to hips. A dog could have great hips and temperament, or bad hips and good temperament, or good hips and bad temperament, or horrible hips AND temperament.

German show dogs aren't any better than other countries' show GSDs, when it comes to being able to move and function like a dog ought to be able to. Whether a dog is from show lines or working lines, they should be able to move like a dog.

Edit: I looked at some of the person's other photos and those poor dogs really probably can't move too well. I would personally avoid them because I want my dogs to be either rescues or from breeders who care about their quality of life through their entire lifespan, and breeding a dog with such a roached back and low hips is not setting them up for a healthy future.

[Theo400]

Hi

this is why I asked Because most of the breeders I have seen in the uk are the same or similar and I really don't like the look of the sloping back and much prefer the straight back but there is no way I could handle a working line as they are more lively than Theo and I love the shepherd but am thinking should I look at another breed as my Brother and cousin both own Labradors and from the same kennel Harrop Labradors and my brothers is 2yrs and my cousins has just turned 16yrs old and has still not had any health problems and is still running round like she's 2 . and I really do like the lab as I have got used to them and like this Christmas me and Theo will be staying with my brother and his lab zizzi and Theo get on with her like a duck to water they were friends instantly which shocked both of us.

what do you think should I get a lab or should I go with a show line just so I can have a shepherd?

this is one of Harrop labs - http://www.champdogs.co.uk/dog/41001

[Erica]

Labs are also prone to hip problems, so you have to be just as careful looking at them. The dog you linked looks significantly overweight and has a strange topline and stance; his back legs look very strange to me. It may just be how the dog's body reacts to carrying all that weight though; hard to tell! Here's a guide that can help you figure out what to look for - while this guide is meant for American Pit Bull Terriers, it is focused on function - on telling if a dog will be able to move well - so should loosely apply to any breed. Feel free to continue asking here too!

If you want some help choosing a breed, make a list of things that are important to you. How energetic do you want the dog to be? Size? Grooming requirements? Temperament - reactions to strangers, kid/dog/other animal friendliness, food responsiveness, toy responsiveness, how quickly they learn, etc. We can help figure out what breeds best suit your lifestyle.

I understand completely wanting a GSDS but having difficulty finding an appropriate breeder. While I love them it's so hard to find the right one that I didn't even try - I went for a poodle and to be honest with you so far I couldn't be happier.

[Theo400]

Hi

Thanks for your reply Erica.

I am looking for a dog who is large in size (no smaller than a lab), who is medium/high in energy like Theo (he gets tow 45min walks everyday and lots of play) grooming is not a problem as I have a friend who is a groomer and I LOVE spending time brushing Theo coat, I want a dog who is friendly, calm and good natured with his family (like the GSD) but reserved with strangers until he knows there not a threat I do not need a guard dog really as I know self defence but where I live there are a lot of dodgy people and I want a dog who can tell if something or someone is not right or a threat and warn me.but I want him to be ok with strangers once he knows there fine but I don't want a dog who is over friendly like the lab who think everyone is great, I want him to also be loyal to just me and my family, my kids are 19 and 17 so not really bothered about kid friendly but would still socialize with kids though, I would like him to be both dog and other pet friendly as I have a bunny (rabbit), I want him to be easy to train like the shep (just the basic manner he dose not need to be super intelligent as Im not doing advanced), I would like him to be food or toy responsive and very playful as I love playing with dogs.

one last thing I don't want him to be like a mad hatter who never tiers. like when he has had his walks in the day and evening will settle in the evening.

Many Thanks
Sarah and Theo

[Theo400]

Hi

I went walking with Theo this morning and I was talking to an owner of the rough collie who was saying that they are very calm don't need a much exercise or as intense as borders and is very sweet she said that her dog is happy with her walks and then relaxes for the rest of the day until they go out again and she said that her dog is happy to do what ever she wants to. everything she was talking about seem a lot like what I wanted and was wondering if any one knows or can advice on the rough collie as I did read there noise sensitive what dose that mean as there's a lot of shouting in my house due to my daughters arguing most of the time (I would say about 3 times a week) ?

[Nettle]

I haven't seen a healthy GSD in umpteen years.

Labs - all sorts of health/termperament issues in those too, but you can get good ones fairly easily - you just need to take your time and shop very carefully. I agree the one in the photo is so fat you can't tell conformation all that well, which is why show dogs (and horses) are often shown in an obese condition.

Rough collies - nice dogs but again, you have to shop around. They are very sensitive, and I think a noisy high-energy household isn't ideal. A labrador wouldn't care about that, though.

[Theo400]

Hi

I have put above what I would like in a dog but have been doing my own research and I fully understand know that no matter what breed I get I will have to research the breeder VERY carefully. all I would like help with is what breed to get and then I can do my own very carefully research. I have been researching a few breeds and one that I like the sound of that ticks all my boxes is the Dobermann (uk spelling) there loyal,strong,playful, good natured to there family's but are also very good at telling who is a threat and who is not (when socialized and trained properly) and since I found Theo easy to train I am pretty certain I can handle a Dobe as im pretty dominant my self as a person and was VERY strict with Theo ( positive is always the way) im not easy to fool and was always one step ahead of Theo (which I don't think he liked )

dose anyone know anything about Dobes?

Many thanks
Sarah and Theo

[Nettle]

Dobes as a breed are very nervy and have many health issues. You might consider a Rottweiler, which tend to be steadier mentally but again have health issues, especially bone cancer, and don't tend to live all that long. However you'd probably get 8-10 years, which might be enough. Male Rotts can be edgy with other dogs, but as a rule the females are better.

You might also consider a Rhodesian Ridgeback - not overly easy to train and won't want to do tricks but they mature into very fine dogs and would be guarded with strangers.

Or how about an Airedale? Big terrier sense of fun and clever too.