Petco/Smart Dog Trainers

[WufWuf]

It was perfect too Nettle, it would've taken me a whole page to get across what you did in just a few lines.

The user name was quite destinctive and in a previous life I used to work at hunting down "the answer" to problems in corporate banking so it's a bit of a habit I still have to go looking for information .

[Ari_RR]

Yep.

It's so easy to criticize the inexperienced... Both new puppy owners, and Petco-like trainers. The selfish attitude of expecting from a bunch of new puppy owners and a little trainer (working 2 or 3 jobs, I am sure, because PetCos of this world don't pay a heck of a lot) to be providers of distraction for a service dog training is bothering me. They are not there to provide anything for anyone. They are there to simply help each other to get started with the puppy ownership. Leave them alone, if you are not willing to help even by simply giving them space to practice their little walks between the isles, or offering a little bit of encouragement from a distance.

Someone claiming to be an experienced trainer should have known better.

[gwd]

I wasn't sure about whether the post was genuine either,

real or not, it does raise and interesting topic for discussion.

in the US, we are a dog loving country. this is evident by the dollars spent on food, and accessories. that said, you'd not know it by our restrictive laws about where pets are and are not allowed. the uk, france, Italy......all are more 'dog friendly' about allowing pets on public transportation, in pubs, leash free on public land..........

because of our restrictive laws, many are finding that lovely loophole that can't be questioned and getting their dogs registered as service dogs. this can be done with no more than an online order for a nifty vest or service dog patch. a shop or restaurant fearing legal retribution can't even ask anything more than, 'is this a service dog' if the owner says, 'yes' then under ADA laws, the dog must be granted access.

not all dogs are well behaved in public.....someone can claim service dog status and have a perfectly horrible little monster.....the 'fake' service dogs make it very difficult for those people that truly need a service dog. airlines are really seeing an increase in passengers claiming their dogs are service dogs so that they are allowed to ride in the cabin at no charge.

shame that.............if we were, as a country, more dog friendly (law wise) I think that few people would stoop to cheating and claiming 'fake service dog' legal protection.

[Nettle]

My part of UK (south coast) is not all that dog-friendly, though some pubs will allow dogs into certain areas. I'm actually on the side of the dog-unfriendly places though, as so many people ignore their dog as it does something antisocial. It only takes one person who lets their dog be a nuisance and we are all tarred with the same brush. and unfortunately most people are downright bad mannered about the way they let their dogs behave.

Even at the vet, people let their dogs behave really badly.



Interesting point about the service dogs, gwd.

[DianeLDL]

I just knw thwt we had a very bad experience with Sandy at PetCo. Sandy was so stressed and reactive, the trainer actuwlly put Sandy on the floor to hold him until he relaxed, something positive never would do.

Also, when we asked if we could work with the trainer outside the store on a one on one, he told us that they can only work with the dogs inside the store. So, whwt this person we saying about taking dogs outside for training is against PetCo policy.

Anyway, he was the worst for us snd Sandy as I mentioned above and didn't recognize that Sandy had too much fear around other dogs.

So, we mever went back and lost a couple hundred of dollars.

Diane

[Wes]

If someone is hanging outside my ring with a dog, I kindly ask them to move, especially if it's a first level course. These puppies are just learning and can't handle too many distractions just yet. Thankfully, my ring is the converted back receiving area, so not too many folks hang around with dogs. If it's a CGC, rally, agility, or Adult 2 course, they can hang out all they want as those dogs are used to distractions.

I've had a few people ask me about service dog training, but I've only taken one on with the caveat that I'm really only teaching him a few behaviours such as picking things up, opening doors, etc. The gentleman was part of Wounded Warrior Project and they paid for his (12!) private sessions. We got a lot accomplished with his little Shar-pei cross.

[DianeLDL]

I've had a few people ask me about service dog training, but I've only taken one on with the caveat that I'm really only teaching him a few behaviours such as picking things up, opening doors, etc. The gentleman was part of Wounded Warrior Project and they paid for his (12!) private sessions. We got a lot accomplished with his little Shar-pei cross.

Wes,

Good for you with the Wounded Warrior client and dog.

I wish you had been our trainer. We probably have been more successful, and I wouldn't be so negative today.

I was told that of Sandy were a more relaxed and not so reactive not only to dogs but to people, he could have undergone Wounded Warrior dog training. But, he isn't anywhere near that point.

Diane

[Mayume]

First off, okay there's nothing in my training that makes me able to be a service dog trainer. That shouldn't be even relative to Petco. However, managers tend to not mess with that the dog trainers are doing as it can be a big cash cow for the company. Just like my "mentor" was "approved" to work with reactive dogs. Petco shouldn't be training SERVICE DOGS. the *closest thing* to that would be CGC. That is not service dogs. I am a Petco Dog Trainer and I do not train service dogs. Period. And if I ever decide to train service dogs, it will NOT be through my classes at Petco.

Secondly, It's OUR job (as in Pet parents) To protect our dogs. If you know you're dog is stressed, reactive, distracted, aggressive, I DON'T CARE.. protect your dogs. Get them out of that situation and don't blame everyone else or the environment for your dogs behavior, I don't care how well trained they are. This DOES include a pet store. It's not a good place for a dog if they are showing stress signals. Just get them to a safe, secure area. Don't agree to group training, don't let other dogs come around, stick a bright yellow bow on that dog, and get it the heck out of dodge.

Lastly, don't group trainers together from Petco. As I said, Managers don't mess with the DT because it's a cash cow for the store. SO if one dog trainer decides to pick up the crap about Alpha/Pack mentality, tells you how to leash correct, etc, don't assume every Petco dog trainer has those views or is the same as the next. I can assure you, there are some of us out there who do our jobs, love our students and pet parents, and teach the right way.

I'm so sorry some of you have had a bad experience or two with Petco, or their trainers, but like I said, don't assume every trainer is the same.

[DianeLDL]

It sounds like you are one of the good and responsible dog trainers for PetCo.

We had brought our dog in to meet the trainer for him to assess our dog's potential for his class. He spent a good half hour with us and Sandy and decided that he would be a good fit for his puppy class although he could see Sandy was already a year old, from the shelter, and was reactive during the time of the assessment. Yet, he assured us that he could help us and had us sign up and pay for ten classes. Well, from day one, we realized it wouldn't be as easy as he led us to believe.

We were not allowed to be in the circle with the other dogs and their pet parents since Sandy was being so reactive. So, already we were kept out from the beginning. It was hard to learn anything as we didn't understand that our dog was so stressed.

After 8 sessions, the trainer decided that it wasn't working in the class, and he would allow us to use what we had paid, add to it and get private lessons. Speaking of "cash cow". He then told us how to put Sandy on the ground and hold him to "calm" him. He never addressed why Sandy was so reactive. He told us that our chihuahua needed a job and to put a back pack on him loaded with rocks.

That was it. We lost a lot of money with a trainer who obviously pushed dominance teachings and didn't seem to understand that a reactive dog needed to be trained differently.

It would have been more ethical for him to have told us during the original interview that we would need special training and not have had us pay hundreds of dollars for NOTHING. We felt that the trainer had not been honest with us from the beginning.

And this guy is the lead trainer for all PetCos in the Albuquerque area!

As to Sandy, he never goes into PetCo when we shop there. We know that he cannot handle being in the store especially as he cannot be within 50ft of another dog without reacting.

It sounds like you would have made a better assessment from the beginning and let us know that the class environment would not have been a fit for our dog or us from the beginning. Wish we had had a better experience, too.

Diane

[Ari_RR]

Diane, but this can happen with any trainer.
Even the ones who advertise themselves as "positive".
At the end of the day - it's the dog's owner's responsibility to evaluate the trainer before exposing the dog.

Those owners who get education (read about training, etc) before assessing trainers have advantage.
Those who first observe classes without their dog have advantage.
Most new owners, however, I think are at the mercy of luck.

[DianeLDL]

Diane, but this can happen with any trainer.
Even the ones who advertise themselves as "positive".
At the end of the day - it's the dog's owner's responsibility to evaluate the trainer before exposing the dog.

Those owners who get education (read about training, etc) before assessing trainers have advantage.
Those who first observe classes without their dog have advantage.
Most new owners, however, I think are at the mercy of luck.

I had never owned a dog before and didn't know anything about training. OH had had dogs, but most were already trained from puppies on the farm or ranch or as MP dog handler. We even got a private trainer who was so called positive but looking at her lists of shoulds and should nots, and after one home visit, we agreed she definitely was not positive and didn't understand our dog and his fears and needs.

So we didn't even know which questions to ask or even that Sandy had his fear aggressions. It wasn't until I found this forum that I learned about different training methods and what to look for as well as learning about Sandy's fear aggression.

Thanks to this forum and everyone who has helped me. I have learned so much. And, we have made more progress with the help I have received here in 6 months than we had from any other trainer or books.

So, thanks to everyone who has helped us.

Diane and Sandy

[Mayume]

Yeah, I would have probably told you by the end of class one.

In my class on Mondays (we're on week two today) I have 3 dogs. 2 yorkies (the pet parents are sister in-laws) and a pug. The pugs mom has worked with sled dogs all of her life so we spent some private time talking more about my methods and her methods. My training is positive, and family friendly, the way it is supposed to be. So come last week with the dogs, I notice one of the yorkies is particularly reactive to..well...everything. I made sausage rain from the sky when the yorkie saw the pug. I did the time-outs, and eventually when I felt it was okay and the yorkie was calm, we let them sniff. After a half an hour in class, and a calm approach, all dogs got along, we got through the curriculum, and everything was okay. The moms were astonished. They said the reactive yorkie would NEVER be so calm in the store as he was at the end of class.

However, I feel that if the yorkie had not stopped being so reactive and calmed down with the class, I would have pulled the mom aside and talked options. I spend most of my time when pet parents are practicing training in the store or arn't paying attention to me, watching their dogs behavior. We get a lot of trash talkers but never goes beyond that as I prevent as many of those situations as possible. The biggest mistake a pet parent can make with a SOCIAL dog (i.e. not reactive/aggressive) is to not let them do the butt sniff dance dogs do. Not allowing them that stresses them out. You see a lot of parents bring in what they believe is an aggressive dog because that dog lunges on the leach at other dogs to smell, and assume that dog is fine if they touch noses...dogs greet differently than we do, we are fighting the environment because of the amount of scent receptors they have, and their greet is sniffing butts and licking muzzles. If you are ever in a safe, social setting with your dog, let them dance. (Petco may not be that setting for some dogs and that's okay.)

I'm excited for class today.

[jacksdad]

actually, allowing greetings...that is a judgment call. automatically letting your dog greet every other dog can be a bad idea. most people don't recognize the signs that their dog ISN'T really social and happy to see other dogs.

I absolutely understand that for some dogs that JUST LOVE other dogs not getting to greet EVER can cause issues too. But it won't kill even these dogs to NOT be allowed to greet each and every dog they encounter.

[Nettle]

I don't allow greetings with all and sundry. My dogs don't want to greet other dogs and I don't use them as toys for other dogs to greet. They do know a handful of dogs they really like and I allow them to greet and be greeted by, but as for strange dogs, I avoid avoid avoid. I've seen too many preventable confrontations, and one of my friends has just had a £500 vet bill as the result of a dog that wanted to 'play'.

[Mayume]

If you are ever in a safe, social setting with your dog, let them dance. (Petco may not be that setting for some dogs and that's okay.)

Safe and Social. Not every dog is a happy go lucky dog that wants to be greeted, I know that more than most. Again, it's our jobs to make that judgement call and to keep our pets safe. On the same hand, if someone has a super reactive dog, I don't think that dog should be in a setting where they're in the situation around other dogs that dog may not know. I.E. Petco, Petsmart, dog park.

I've never understood that pet parent that will yank on the dogs collar and lead when I approach and say "My dog can't be around people/other dogs etc" Why did you bring your reactive dog to this establishment in the first place, where they will react to everything here and stress you out, therefore stressing themselves out more?