Ideas please - vomiting

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Horace's Mum
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Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

Ok, this may be a long post cos its been going on a while but bear with me, I would appreciate some other brains on this one!

Horus has food issues - when stressed he gets seriously food obsessed. We have over the years worked out how to manage it most of the time - he has tincture of oats every day (I have no idea how this helps, it was initially to help with chronic stress but within 2 weeks of stopping it he is unbearably obsessed with food again, so he is staying on it forever now), he to a degree is trickle fed, simply because I use a lot of treats on walks and clicker training (when he improved to the point of not needing nearly so many treats his foodiness got worse, so we just make sure we do training on walks now!) and he is now also on stressless supplement, simply to help with the stress. He leads a very sheltered life, and any day which is stressful - good or bad - is followed by enough days to bring his adrenalin back down to normal, including enforced rest if needs be.

He won't eat raw anything, but I do my best to provide chewy items. He has a bit of an addiction to carrots and apples! I got into the habit of buying him a bag of raw carrots, which are made available to him during the evening to help himself to, when we are just sitting around. Interestingly he doesn't see these as food, he won't protect them, it does seem to be the chewing aspect that he needs. I do the same with apples when they are going cheap or as a treat. He will usually got through a kilo of carrots over a few days, and then go off them for several weeks - its as if he fulfills his desire to chew and doesn't need it any more.

Recently he has been asking for carrots/apples a lot - he will sit and eat half a kilo over an evening if I let him. When we go to bed he will go through and just keep bringing them back to bed with him unless I go and pick them up and move them out of the way. I decided last week that enough was enough, and have started giving him a carrot or apple as a treat, rather than leaving them out for him - too many carrots can't be good!

He has also over the last couple of months had several patches of vomiting. He vomited over the space of 2 days several times a day, just bile, which we thought was colitis, and was treated with antibiotics and zantac. He must have been ill then, because he wasn't bothered about not being fed for those two days - the following 2 weeks however were hell until we managed to get some kind of balance back again.

In the last couple of weeks he has been waking in the morning, about an hour before we usually get up, vomiting bile twice, and then coming back to bed. He did it for 3-4 days, then stopped. As we were heading for the vets anyway for his monthly jab, I asked him about it. We are thinking at the moment that he is getting a kind of heartburn, producing too much acid. We talked about feeding later at night (which is fairly irrelevant because we do training in the evening, and he always gets a piece of dried tripe or vegetable chew when in bed). He also offered me a weeks worth of zantac, which I took home but didn't give him until 2 days later, when he started the morning vomiting again. We worked through the weeks course, and touch wood have been fine for the last couple of days, but I am still puzzled.

Any ideas what might be causing this? Or any other ways of dealing with things? I'm just looking for ideas to brainstorm, or something I have missed being too close to it all. :?
maximoo
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by maximoo »

Has Horus had xrays of his entire gut? Max had gastritis one time & gastroenteritis another. Mylanta was the fix.

Not sure if that was helpful :?
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

He hasn't had any tests related to this with me, its not really serious enough to warrant it just yet. When I discussed it with my vet we decided to just monitor it for now, and it appears that the zantac has helped.

Forgot to say, he did have a gastric torsion at the age of 5 weeks immediately after being rescued - maybe related to being fed after starvation? But he does have quite a considerable scar along his entire stomach as a result, and what is scarred on the outside is bound to be scarred on the inside.
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Nettle
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Nettle »

That's very astute, Horace's Mum - as you have proved yourself to be many times :wink:

Too many carrots are bad. It takes a LOT to be too many, but sounds as if he is going that way - how about a cabbage and a cauliflower instead?

Stress can cause colitis - so can many other things. He is a stresshead anyway so maybe a tiny change in his circumstances has made a difference to him. As a general gut soother, I can recommend any or all of honey, stewed apple/pear/pumpkin, plain bio yoghurt and aloe vera.

Will he tolerate a massage? That's good for general relaxation.
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runlikethewind
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by runlikethewind »

Are you on the UK? If he is well in general, I recommend this person who will allow the dog to self select herbs offered in front of them and the dog eats what it wants, based on what they need (ie they choose). It an amazing experience. My dog chose hemp oil to drink and chlorella to eat - both to calm and destress and rebalance. And he was offered several herbs and oils to choose from which he ignored.

She also does t-touch and massage

http://www.fionahabershon.com/page3.htm

The treatment is called Zoopharmacognosy - innate self-selection
Last edited by runlikethewind on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

Thanks Nettle, I was hoping you would reply! I kind of figured he was starting to go overboard on the carrots, hence confiscating them. He always used to limit it himself, as if he had an itch and needed to scratch it, but once it was done it was done. Now its like he has metaphorical eczema! He's not over impressed with cabbages and cauliflowers to chew, although he does it eat from time to time when I have it - I chop it up and add it to his breakfast bowl.

I do give him honey from time to time, I have a pot handy and when he has an upset stomach then he gets some mixed in with his yoghurt, or just licked off a spoon. I often give him to him after he has vomited to help soothe him and let him eat something without it being heavy on the stomach. I used to give him yoghurt every morning but he doesn't always tolerate it, so I tend to get a pot from time to time when he is struggling internally rather than as a regular thing. I have never tried aloe vera but I will give that a go. How much does he need?

I used to give him boiled pumpkin, never done cooked apples and pears but he gets them raw. I got into the habit of giving him an apple every day, it seemed to keep his stools good but recently hasn't been working so well.

He is a stresshead :( , I'm not sure he will improve much more in that sense, he just finds the world so hard to cope with. He has been enjoying a cuddle on the sofa with me every night which gives me chance to massage him a little, but if I start focussing too much then he moves away - I can't treat him myself because he senses the second I change from stroking to working :roll:

I think he is still getting used to his new house, because although we have been here 6 months or more now, there has been a lot going on and we have only just got the fence finished etc so that it is finally just us. But at the same time it is very hard now to spot when he is worrying, because when it is just us two he is such a completely different dog, and funnily enough despite his penchant for eating people, he doesn't show pain or discomfort very much at all. He has almost got too subtle in his communication!
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

I am indeed in the UK, but where does Fiona work from? I am up in Scotland, most things don't happen much around here!

Forgot something else, Horus does like to eat soil from time to time - again not all the time, just through certain periods. He can go months without nd then want to eat it everyday. I have always thought this would tie in with excess acid - the soil acting as a neutraliser. He also grazes fairly regularly, but I've not been worried about that - it's not excessive, and he is quite selective about what grass he picks.
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Nettle
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Nettle »

Yes, the soil-eating in this case is likely to be a gut-easing process - that's why we have the kaolin part of kaolin and morphine.

Hmmm - how about trying some charcoal biscuits or slightly burned toast?

Aloe vera - get capsules if you can because it tastes foul, and give half the human dose. If you can only get the jelly, rub some on his paws and he should lick it off.

I understand about the massage - we'll forget about that.
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runlikethewind
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by runlikethewind »

Fiona works down in the South. I asked about your issue and here is a little bit of advice:

"the dog would definitely benefit from Ttouch & self selection. Barley grass, Spriulina or Chlorella to build itself back up in to balance. They also bring back healthy gut flora after medication (whichever it selected) Slippery elm is often selected if there is acid."
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

Can you think of anything other than charcoal biscuits or burnt toast that would give the same effect? Reason being that I avoid wheat with him as much as possible, and I haven't found any charcoal biscuits that don't also have other stuff in his stomach won't accept.I know you can get powdered charcoal but I don't really fancy having it spread round my house when he wipes his mouth after eating!

Thanks RLTW, that's very helpful. I knew slippery elm was good for stomach ulcers, getting him to eat it might be a challenge - it tastes revolting! Not sure where I could get the herbs for him to self select though :(

He won't accept t-touch from me (although I do try as much as I can!), and would find it stressful to have someone else work on him - we have tried shiatsu in the past but I had to trickle feed him cheese the whole way through which defeats the object a little.
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Nettle
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Nettle »

Ah, damn! :lol: I forgot the wheat allergy, sorry!

Slippery elm is great but my dogs won't take it, no way. :?

Oh well - back to the honey and aloe vera. Homeopathic Nux vomica might help too, if you are able to get it.
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emmabeth
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by emmabeth »

Make your own charcoal biscuits?? (You could probably then include some other good stuff too) - theres likely to be some recipe around on the net that doesnt involve wheat.


I know in humans, too much acid and not enough acid have almost exactly the same symptoms (being acid reflux, acidy/heartburny feeling etc) - so its worth thinking about that too, and certain infections in humans can damage acid production and then it doesnt seem to get back to normal on its own.

No idea if that is actually of any use to you but I thought id say so anyway!
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Nettle
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Nettle »

I read something today about tapioca being used to settle the stomach of a dog with a wheat/corn allergy. Worth a try.
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by Horace's Mum »

I have thought about making my own biscuits but just now it isn't possible - something for the future.

Have to say (ironically) that he has been fine since the week of zantac, so for the moment I am going to just keep watch. But at least next time it happens I have a few more tricks up my sleeve, and I can stock up on things that will be useful to use immediately, instead of having to go out to get honey/charcoal/nux vomica (I love that name, makes you feel sick just saying it!) etc.

Thanks for the brainstorming, any more suggestions welcome, I will take everything and anything on board and sort out what might help us in our situation. Thank you!! :)
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***Melissa***
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Re: Ideas please - vomiting

Post by ***Melissa*** »

In South Africa we can buy charcoal tablets from pharmacies.

Could the tablets work better than the powder?
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