Elimination and worming questions

[leslie123]

Sulley can't seem to maintain solid stools. His worming history is as follows:
He was wormed at the shelter on July 15th. We got him July 31st and had him to the vet on Aug 2nd. He was diagnosed with coccidia and hookworm and the vet gave us a tablet to give once for the hookworm (I can't seem to get my hands on that receipt to tell you the name of it) She also gave us a liquid medication to give for two weeks for the coccidia. He had a follow up worming medicine on Aug 23rd. That medication was a yellow liquid, and again I'm sorry I don't have the name. We also started him on Heartguard on the 24th of Aug. He had diarrhea issues the day we brought him home.

His food history is: At the shelter he got puppy chow. We switched him to science diet puppy for large breed right away, we didn't make a gradual change and day by day his stools got more normal, until after just a couple days they were normal. After doing more research on dog foods we decided we wanted to change him to Natural Balance Ultra Premium. He had been on the science diet for 2 weeks and we made a gradual change over a weeks time. His stools did get a bit loose during this time, we attributed it to the change in food and by the time we had him switched all the way over, he was again normal. He is still on that same dog food and I use the Natural Balance roll for treats. He also gets peanut butter sometimes in his Kong and raw carrots along with a dried yam and chicken jerky wrapped treat once or twice a day. There has been a couple of times that we've used hot dogs for treats and I wonder if that might add to his problems. He had a small bit of hot dog this past saturday and by sunday night he had loose stool again. That being said he had a couple days of loose stool early last week as well and I can't recall us giving him hot dogs then. His diarrhea is not an all day event, he still only eliminates two or three times a day, its just that it will be loose when he does. He isn't lethargic or showing any other signs of discomfort in his tummy and he's eating and drinking fine.

Is it likely that he needs deworming again? The Heartguard is supposed to help protect against hookworm and roundworm along with heartworm. Is it normal for puppies to get dewormed so much and is it normal for them to have bowel issues? Does it seem more likely that these issues are parasite or diet related? I am taking him to the vet this week for another round of shots and they mentioned last visit they would recheck him for worms. Its not that I don't trust the vet, but I'd really like to get some feedback here about this too, if for no other reason so I know what questions I should as my vet or even what procedures I should question if they recommend them.

[Sarah83]

Can't answer the worming question but my rottie mix used to get the squits if we gave him anything different to what he normally got. Even just one treat could do it. Wolf was never ill with it and he never went more than normal, it was just that when he did go it wasn't exactly solid. Rupe used to have quite a sensitive tummy and the slightest change would upset his too but he seems to have gotten over that. His diet is more varied than Wolfs was though, Wolf got his food and a dog biscuit at night and that was about it while Rupe gets all sorts of things as treats. We have the occasional bout of Dire Rear (and believe me, it is dire!) with Rupe but it's rare and usually when someone does something stupid like give him half a kebab with hot sauce

[runlikethewind]

Sounds like a lot of de-worming medication going on there. How can the confirm worms there and then anyway? They need to take samples and send them off /look at them in microscope etc. A lot of medication will upset a pup's tum I'm sure. On top of that, he has to contend with his vaccinations as well.

In terms of diet, I was also guilty of swopping and changing diets and introducing too many treats etc. We finally got our dog settled on a raw food diet but you can get pre prepared raw food diets in the US too I'm sure.

[leslie123]

Sounds like a lot of de-worming medication going on there. How can the confirm worms there and then anyway? They need to take samples and send them off /look at them in microscope etc. A lot of medication will upset a pup's tum I'm sure. On top of that, he has to contend with his vaccinations as well.

In terms of diet, I was also guilty of swopping and changing diets and introducing too many treats etc. We finally got our dog settled on a raw food diet but you can get pre prepared raw food diets in the US too I'm sure.

The first worming was done at the shelter, I think its standard procedure on young puppies. The second deworming they did check his stool and thats when they found the hookworm and coccidia. The third worming was a follow up which is normal to follow up two weeks after the first dose. We're going in the vet today and I believe they will do a fecal test again to follow up and see if all the parasites are gone. I'm going to ask to see them in the microscope if they say he has them. He has now developed an allergy of some sort cause he's itching like crazy and showing some skin irritation in his groin area. I just want to get him all settled, he sure has seemed to have a lot of health issues

I'm backing off on treats a bit, and including toys as rewards during training now too along with lots and lots of praise. He's responding beautifully.

[runlikethewind]

I have a similar situation with allergies... it could be food related though. It's the most difficult thing to work out why.. I had vets and dermotologist tests and I now know the cause and I have a package of natural solutions now I put together for my boy.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7989

[leslie123]

I have a similar situation with allergies... it could be food related though. It's the most difficult thing to work out why.. I had vets and dermotologist tests and I now know the cause and I have a package of natural solutions now I put together for my boy.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7989

How much testing did you have to do before you could pinpoint the allergen cause? Was it fairly lengthy and expensive? Hope it doesn't make me sound bad, but every time we walk in the vets office its been costing us $80 or more. We're hoping that will subside sometime soon. I sure wish I would have looked into a puppy plan for shots and also some insurance, but we kind of didn't have time since he needed immediate medical care as soon as we got him.

EDIT: I found your post on how you went about the allergy testing, thank you. I think I'm going to look into some insurance right away, can't hurt.

[runlikethewind]

Yep... you want to look at insurance quickly BEFORE they vets start twigging that it could be a long term allergy.. I don't know about over there but here in the UK, you cannot get cover for pre existing conditions.... so you need to play it very carefully and asutely.

If you get the cover, and don't mention anything about preexisting conditions to the insurer...then you will feel happier about carrying on with any tests. You should also then be able to backdate any previous vet's bills when they are all related to the one condition.

Anway, it may be just food related and you can try the elimation test yourself at home. It could also be a reaction to bedding or carpet...or some plants she had rubbed in. All of these sorts of things you can think about before going back to the vet. The stages I went through were:

1. Eliminate possibility of mites (both types) via tests
2. Carry out elimination diet for 1 month I think it was
3. Undergo allergy testing

The vet told me food intolerances show up just like skin allergies. so we had to go through a very strict elimination diet first. There's more info on elimination diets in the web - you feed a novel protein and carb(if you feed carbs) and you must not give anything other than this protein, no treats of different protein etc. If your kibble has mixed protein, you want to find one with just one that you can control.

[runlikethewind]

also don't work yourself about the shots and the cost of them.. they are never covered by insurance anyway... well not over here.

I won't go into detail on the allergy testing as it could be something very simple for your pup and not related to allergens. My dog is allergic to three grass pollens and dust mites. So as well as his monthly allergy shots now, I do a range of other things to keep the allergens at bay as much as poss!

[leslie123]

Anway, it may be just food related and you can try the elimation test yourself at home. It could also be a reaction to bedding or carpet...or some plants she had rubbed in. All of these sorts of things you can think about before going back to the vet. The stages I went through were:

1. Eliminate possibility of mites (both types) via tests
2. Carry out elimination diet for 1 month I think it was
3. Undergo allergy testing

The vet told me food intolerances show up just like skin allergies. so we had to go through a very strict elimination diet first. There's more info on elimination diets in the web - you feed a novel protein and carb(if you feed carbs) and you must not give anything other than this protein, no treats of different protein etc. If your kibble has mixed protein, you want to find one with just one that you can control.

Thanks so much for all the insight. He has seen the vet and is clear of worms and no sign of ear mites(which I knew he didn't have) or infection. The vet wasn't all that helpful with the itching and that was disappointing for us. The only positive thing I can say was she didn't push steroids, which I planned on refusing anyway if it was suggested. He's had no flea problem or even signs of fleas at all. I've actually been checking the pollen counts around here and lately everything has been in the mild range. I'm now starting to wipe him off with a baby wipe when we come in, just in case. His sleeping area is in the kitchen and always has been so he's not exposed to furniture or carpet that might have dust mites and up until a few days ago he was sleeping on big towels that we changed out every few days. Now he finally got a bed of his own! Because of the skin issues and the diarrhea issues we're really leaning towards this being diet related. We've been feeding the Ultra Premium Natural Balance which has about 4 different proteins and 3 carb sources. They also offer several limited ingredient varieties with just one protein and one carb source. Since he's due for a new bag anyway, we will probably go ahead and try him on one of those. A nice thing is that they offer treats, food rolls, canned and dry food in each variety and all grain free. I read all through the raw diet thread and I have to admit I completely see how it would be so healthy, I'm just not sure I have the dedication and stomach for it. There's another vet closeby that I believe sells ready to feed raw and I think they also do dermatology so I may be paying them a visit. In the meantime we're using Benadryl to keep the edge off the itching, but obviously thats temporary and we know we need to find the cause so we can manage this better. I hope we can get a handle on it soon, I hate seeing him so uncomfortable Makes it hard to train too.