Rottweiler Puppy Smaller Than Littermates

[H-Man]

Hi, me again, becoming a regular pain on this forum these days...

So, we took little Omar (13 weeks rottweiler) to see one of his brothers the other day, and the guy was almost twice as big - I'm not sure if he was taller, but he was just bigger and more filled out, maybe an inch or so taller. His coat was also nice and glossy. This is especially weird since he was the runt of the litter apparently, and Omar was the strongest. Apparently his sister is more similar to Omar's size.

This got us worrying though, that maybe he wasn't growing properly or whatever. I then kinda confirmed what I had started to worry about a few weeks ago. Until a week or so ago, we were putting boiling water into his food to soften it up into a mush, which is what the pet shop we got the food from originally advised. Idea was we would gradually start firming it up. The thing is, we would put the boiling water in, and then DRAIN the water and replace it with cooler water to mash it up, rather than waiting for it to cool naturally. Then one day I was doing this and suddenly realised - what are we actually pouring away. I realised its the same process as when the chocolate comes out of the cereal in the milk, and if you leave it long enough you're left with colourless cereal in chocolate milk, or when you boil vegetables and they lose some of their nutrients. So we stopped doing that, and have been feeding him dry food for the last week or so now (we started by letting it soak in a little cold water to soften it up, and gradually left it soaking less and less until today we fed him completely dry food for the first time).

ANYWAY, he obviously hasn't been getting a good amount of nutrients because of this, and the pet shop owner recommended giving him weetabix mushed up with warm semi-skimmed milk for lunch instead of his dry food, because this would provide him plenty of calcium for his growing bones. We were reluctant because we know most dogs are lactose intolerant, and cows milk can make them sick, but we followed his advice anyway because we were worried about his growth. Today, he has diarrhea and bad gas, which is what milk often does. So we've stopped that now. I also did some research online and found that giving extra calcium to a growing large-breed puppy can be bad for him, and cause deformity. Same with too much protein.

Which brings me onto my actual question - my roommate (who half-owns the dog) is saying we should buy him protein supplements with vitamins, as his thinking is that he needs to catch up. He hasn't been getting enough protein before, so we need to give him as much as possible now to help him grow faster. I've been trying to explain that overdosing on protein wouldn't help at all, and could just cause more damage. I explained it that it's not like the puppy has a protein sack somewhere in his body and we need to fill it up to help him grow. If we give him too much protein than his body can handle, then it will do damage. Everyone has been throwing advice at us (buy vitamins! give him chicken bones! feed him calcium-rich cereal! etc) and I think this could all end up doing more damage to him.

My thinking is that we made a mistake by boiling off too many nutrients in his food before, and now we know it was wrong we should just be feeding him the regular food, giving his body what he needs. He doesn't need to 'catch up'. And besides, his brother was clearly overweight for a puppy his age, so their advice of frozen chicken nuggets and pet mince and all that stuff isn't the way to go - he'll probably grow up with joint problems. Omar is slim, but from pictures I've seen online, he's about a normal size for a 13 week old puppy. And since he grows so fast, it's better that he's not carrying excess weight with him as he grows. He's really lively and playful, and the brother puppy that people are suggesting is the 'healthy' one was really lethargic, he came outside and instead of meeting Omar, he just laid down and let Omar come to him.

So, am I right in thinking now we should just continue feeding him the right amount of the food we have, along with his treats he gets during training, rather than overloading him with extra protein?

[josie1918]

NO supplements!!!!!!!!!!! Please, it will do much more harm than good, and can cause permanant damage. Just feed him his normal food, with of course his normal treats. And say, I am taller than my sister, heavier boned too come to think of it

[maximoo]

Obviously you are in the UK . Please state the name of the kibble you are giving pup. The British ladies will be along & tell you if its good or not. Otherwise kibble should be given with water. The boiling water thing Inever heard of. Would youlike to eat dry hard food everyday? Moistening it is correct. You can even add a little low sodium broth / or left over meat drippings for additional flavor.

[Zeldacorgi]

Before you start delving into supplements, take him to a vet if you're so concerned. If the vet says he's healthy, you're fine. If he's not healthy, the vet will tell you what to do differently. It sounds like the pet store owner may be trying an up sell here.

Moistening the food is fine. At 13 weeks though, I don't particularly think it's necessary. But boiling and draining is a bit odd. Just add some water and mash it up.

[Sarah83]

If it makes you feel any better the runt of my cousins dogs litter ended up about the size of a bull mastiff while the biggest in the litter weighed in at around 50lbs fully grown. They were cross breeds but even in pure bred litters you're going to get size differences.

People seem to think Rotties are these huge beasts around the size of a pony that weigh around 200lbs and that's not true, especially not for a puppy. Rotties within breed standard are only slightly taller than my own dog although they're more heavily built. If you're worried then take him for a vet check and ask them what they think.

[Noobs]

Maybe you could add veggies to his diet if you're that concerned about nutrients. When I make broccoli, I give Murphy the stalk so he can eat it. I also save the water after boiling the broccoli and use it to soak his food. You were soaking his food before anyway - that is a good idea, but I think it's been established that you're not going back to adding then draining boiling water - so you could try it with veggie water. You could also use low-sodium chicken stock diluted in water.

[Nettle]

No supplements. Pups should not grow like fatstock, but like athletes, and when we add supplements, we risk skewing the ratios of this to that, and getting abnormal growth. This is particularly relevant in a big dog like a Rottie.

If your pup is happy, lively and friendly, with a shiny coat and its ribs JUST covered, it is getting enough food. Most dogs are overfed and it does them no good at all.

The other recommendation I would make is that if you are planning to have him neutered, wait until he is fully grown at two years old, because the hormones cap off the long bones at the right time, and if you take those hormones away too soon, the bones will not mature as they should. As Rotties are very prone to bone issues, this can make the difference between a long-lived healthy Rottie and - not.

Don't compare him with his siblings - he is what he is, so enjoy him for that.

I like Noobs's ideas for adding stock rather than water.

[H-Man]

Thanks everyone, will continue with what we're doing. I'll post pictures when I get them on the computer Hes definitely the cutest of the litter.

[H-Man]

I posted some photos here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7082#p48374

And here's some so you can see his size difference:



His sister (red collar) and brother.





And here's him with his brother, you can see his brother is a bit thicker and taller:

[Zeldacorgi]

Don't worry at all about the size difference. Not only are they two separate dogs but they're both under different care with different families. They're also still growing. It's possible the other puppy is going through a spurt.

I used to have a lab that was normal sized with her litter, then it turned out she was a runty dog. Very healthy, just small.

[emmabeth]

Stick with his normal food - if its better for him to have it wet then wet it down with warm water rather than boiling.

DONT feed weetabix or any cereal stuff - it contains very very little of any use to a dog and its incredibly hard for them to digest to get out that goodness. Dogs are lactose intolerant (as are a large percentage of the world population though most just put up with the side effects, myself included!) and if he needs calcium, it is better given in the form of a raw meaty bone that will have a better calcium to phosphate ratio. By replacing a meal of dog food which (though i dont really like most of it) contains all he needs... with weetabix or similar which is effectively, creating poop... he will be missing out.

Not your fault though, I have heard this millions of times and even from breeders who you would think would know better!

Pups do all grow differently and actually even quality complete dog food I find makes puppies grow faster and bigger than they ought to do.

Noticably, my deerhound ***** is smaller than her littermates, only by an inch or so, but shes also got much better proportions than some, straighter limbs too (and thats not just from looking at them myself shes been xrayed for something else and praised on how nice her legs are).

The reason for her being a little smaller, a little better proportioned is that she was fed raw from 8 weeks old, and hasnt been pushed into 'overgrowth'. Bigger is by no means better, and I would always raw feed puppies as soon as i get them now.

Feed him his food, if you want to give him something 'good' to be sure you are covering all the bases, then a few times a week replace a meal with a raw meaty bone, some ground raw meat and blended vegetables (dont feed raw meat at the same time as dry food though), the occasional raw egg is good too. I would not supplement his diet other than to do that though.

Pups grow at their own rate really, there is a temptation with some breeds and rotties are one of these, to have them big and butch as soon as possible but thats not good for them (and really they should not BE a huge breed anyway!). The rule of thumb is that a dog grows 'one year up. one year out' so you wouldnt expect him to look like an adult dog until he is two/three years old, gaining his height first, then his adult muscling second.

[Nettle]

Australian vet. Ian Billinghurst in his book "Grow Your Pups with Bones" says that a pup should only grow to 75% of its potential. After many years of raising dogs myself, I am certain he is right. He used to (might still do) breed Great Danes - a very difficult breed to get "right" in health terms.

[emmabeth]

Comparing kelda to some deerhounds at shows, even bitches... I am convinced he is right too. Some of them do look SO overdone, like flipping mini wolfhounds - too tall, too heavy, too looooooooooong... i look and think 'and if YOU shoulder barged a deer and brought it down... youd have a broken leg/shoulder or worse!'

Rotties are suppoooooooosed to be a cattle driving, all round useful farm yard dog - capable of a days work be it ratting, working cattle or sheep or whatever, yet economical to feed and keep. Yet you see some that are HUGE and heavy and must cost a fortune to feed, are really really tall ....

The same can be said for a LOT of breeds mind you... Deerhounds are not too bad though i think there is too much emphasis on height these days, Tibetan Terriers (my other pedigree dog) are not so bad though in Tibet.. they NEVER had floor length coats of quite such profuseness as their american and british show counter parts do... Boxers seem to go through phases of being huge and heavily built and then b eing smaller and lighter weight... tis all fashion!

[nixe]

I would have him evaluated by a vet, they'll know more than anyone if your dog is a healthy size.

[forkin14]

Cadence was on the right (at like 8 weeks old) and as you can see she was A LOT smaller than her litter mates (probably the runt).
She's completely healthy and never had any growth issues or needed any supplements and is probably bigger than the other ones now at 65 lbs