Raw Food Diet

Discussion dedicated to promoting the well-being of your dog through diet, exercise and general health tips.

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Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

When we go do another doggie food run tomorrow sometime I'll look for other stuff. I got a bit overwhelmed when I was looking, so I went with what I knew was okay--chicken wings :) I know that you said lamb was safe, but the first store we went to didn't have it, neither did the second, and the third was more than I spend on my own meats for my own dinners. And I do love my dogs, but...

Mostly it's that I don't have a clue what different cuts of meat are, except for the stuff that I normally eat, which doesn't generally include bones anyhow...

I'm looking online at one of our grocers who offers online shopping and pick up and they have lamb riblets, lamb leg and the rest is all ground or cut into chops (thought I read that the cut bones were bad). They also have goose... I think that one comes whole and frozen, and they have turkeys, turkey legs, etc. And of course they have fishies. Can dogs eat fishies? And if yes, do you just say "here you go" scales and all? What parts of pork can the dogs eat? Or can they not eat pork?

Wal-mart tends to have a lot more of the bits and pieces than the other groceries stores here and I saw that they had beef tails, chicken necks, and chicken feet. Can they eat any of that?

We do have one real butcher here, but like I said, I have no clue what I'm looking at when I go there. Unfortunately my mother cooked a lot of spaghetti-o's or we went out to eat a bit since my dad was overseas quite for the majority of my childhood and she worked, so I never really learned much more than ground beef, stew beef, chicken breast and pork chops :)
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

Ahhhhhh welcome to the wonderful world of butchery!

Ok, soooo... the bits you want to try for meals, are things that have a similar proportion of meat to light, non weight bearing bone as a chicken wing would have... certainly, no more meat than that.

Some people feed chicken necks and beef/ox tail - try it, I have found a couple of my dogs will vomit up little bones and then we have a scrummage for who gets to eat it again :roll: :lol: so I avoid those, but I do have a particularly weak stomach and vomit and bones really sets me off. Try it out if you find yours do tend to bring back spare bits, then leave them out in future. (BTW, the dogs system is well designed to cope with eating something THEN deciding if it is in fact edible, and then bringing it back if either it isnt, or it needs a little 'rearranging'.., very much unlike ours! so vomiting up stuff is not a crisis!).

You can feed the odd meal that does not contain whole bone, so if theres cheap cut up meat going or cuts where you wouldnt feed that particular bone but would cut the meat off... thats fine. If you have one and can stomach it (and I do, but i cant), those old fashioned cast iron mincers everyones Grandma used to have, the kind you clamp to the table and wind the handle round... those can handle some stuff. However you need the matching cast iron stomach to stand grinding up stuff wtih bone in it.... one chicken wing was enough for me and i was heaving for hours!

Worth a go if you have one you can turn reduced priced pork or lamb chops into dog food - handy if you buy them for yourself, forget about them and then you have that 'hmmmm is this still good or does it whiff a bit... im not sure' moments. If you arent sure that if its still good or if its off, and wouldnt eat it yourself your dog still can. (Whereas if you definately ARE sure its off, whilst your dog probably could and would, I wouldnt advise it!).

Dogs can eat fish, I have not found my dogs to do so well on whole raw fish (and that can contain parasites where modern farmed meat these days does not, which was btw, the old reason for not feeding pork... does not apply now!).... I think the scales is what makes them vomit it back up, but im not sure and i HATE fish so theres no way im risking them vomiting up fish.... I hate vomit too and fishy vomit...... bleeeeeeeeeeeurgh.

I do feed canned fish, pilchards in tomato sauce or pilchards in oil though and these go down a treat and never come back up!

Try stuff and see if your dogs like it - as long as they have the hang of chewing stuff and you supervise them, the risks are lowwwww, obviously dont throw them half a cow and then go out all day, that would be daft!

Poultry - I find turkey is quite fatty and goose even more so. Turkey makes my dogs fart ... the kind of wind where you turn around expecting a big green cloud or even start hunting for the poo!... So go easy on that, it does no harm... just feed that if you are going to go out later on, or will be taking them out in the fresh air. Not someting to feed say, the morning of a loooooooooong car journey - eek trapped in a tin box with a farty dog!

If you like turkey or goose, or whatever else you might come across, you can always take off the breasts and legs for yourself, and then divide the frame up for the dogs (if its a big bird, if its something small then a frame each for the dogs) - sometimes I find that chickens, turkeys etc are on sale or reduced in the supermarket and I am not really a fan of big roasted dinners so we take off what we want and the dogs have the rest.

If you have anywhere that supplies game or anyone who does pest control and shoots rabbits, then you can feed that too - any wild food, freeze it (Nettle will know how long for) first for a while (i think a week or two!) to kill parasites, but you can feed things like rabbits whole if you like. Be prepared for whole foods like a whole or half a rabbit to take a while to eat, and some dogs like to treasure such things and bring them indoors... As I discovered the day I found that Dill had stashed the head, spine and back legs of his rabbit IN my bed... (And my friends dog Ty nearly gave his Mum a heart attack when he brought his indoors and 'sat it up' at the bottom of the stairs as if it had come back to life. Gah, dogs that play with their food... :lol:).

There is also a wonderful story somewhere on the net, about a lady who went, with her small dogs, to pick up an elk carcass, at least I think she set out to get it and take it home to cut up for her dogs... she may not have. Her dogs spied it... and GOT INSIDE IT and would not come out. She had to load the carcass with the dogs inside it, into her truck ... bring it home and put it in the garden.

Here it is! http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/j ... inelk.html

Enjoy!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

Oh dear... thank you so much for the information and for the laughs. I've been sitting here somewhere between a chuckle and a full out cackle and J's looking at me like I've lost my mind.

Talking about gas--during the first week we fed Lu raw he woke me up in the middle of the night with his gas and I went on the "oh where's the poo" hunt. He had the most awful gas. All three of ours are fairly gassy boys, but that first week--holy cow. Knocking on wood as I type this, but the gas seems to have gotten less than it was last week, and even less than it was before we started the raw feeding.

So I'm going to go to the store today, well probably several, and see what I can come up with. My dad's a hunter, but he's mostly into deer (which that season is over now), occasionally does duck, squirrel and turkey.

Thanks again! I'll be back on later after our store trip I'm sure.
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

I just finished reading the Elk Carcass. I haven't laughed so hard or so long in a VERY long time. I really needed that.
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

Back from the grocery store... we got--more chicken wings, pretty much because I know that I can get those here no matter what; beef ribs, I hope they can eat that (I figured it wasn't weight bearing, so it should be okay-but if it's not let me know and I won't feed them that) they were only $2.50 for a pack of like 5. We got pork ribs-mostly because we eat those and figured we could buy a big pack of them eat what we want and rip off what we don't before we cook them (again, figured non-weigh bearing so it was okay, bit if not I won't feed them that). Oxtail which looks like a big pile of yuck in a bag. I walked around the store with lamb ribs in my cart for about 20 minutes, but couldn't bring myself to spend $18.00 on 18 ribs. Then we saw a lamb shank (admittedly I have NO CLUE what part of an animal a shank is, I was guessing leg), but it was REALLY big, even cutting off a good portion of meat for our use the bone was REALLY BIG so I left that at the store. It wasn't all that expensive though, only $9 or so I guess. I wasn't sure how we'd feed all three of them one huge shank (whatever that is).

Hopefully we did okay and I'm open to all suggestions :)

J knows of a butcher in the town next to ours, so he's going to call them on Monday and ask a few questions. We're not opposed to buying our own meat from them too so that'll probably help out with our search for doggie food.
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

Oxtail is so delicious I wouldn't give it to my dogs because I want to eat it! :lol: Would you like a recipe?
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

I'll try anything once :)
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

Beef ribs might be more of a recreational 'toy' bone, though if theres enough meat on them theres no reason not to give as a more 'meaty' meal rather than a 'boney' meal and then dispose of the bone once all the meat is gone (if you dont want your yard looking like a knackers yard!)..

Pork ribs should be fine, see how you go with those...

Lamb shanks, if you like lamb for you, get these and take off the meat you want, save the bones up in the freezer until you have a few and then you can give the dogs one each as a recreational thing.

I find it does no harm a few days a month if they go without a 'proper meal', but instead spend a good part of the day working on a big bone that has a fair bit of meat on it like this. You can do it more often of course, with five dogs here it takes a bit of organising especially as I do NOT want anyone snacking on such things in my bed or on my sofa!

You will get to learn after a few experiments, what your dogs can consume completely, and what is more of a recreational thing. (Deer ribs might be good and i bet they could eat whole squirrel!)
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

Deer ribs are great for dogs!!

Oxtail for people:

Put one oxtail in a pot-roasting tin with lid. Add a pint of stout or red wine, loads of mushrooms, swede, parsnip, onions, garlic, herbs especially thyme, black pepper, dash of cayenne, generous glop of olive oil.

Cook in oven veree slowly for a long time (I cook for about 4 hours) keeping the liquid topped up so that half of the oxtail is exposed and therefore the top and fat becomes crunchy (faints with pleasure - revives). It is ready when the meat is falling off the bone. Serve with lots of different green vegetables, maybe some bread for the gravy. If you want to eat it the English way, top the meat either with strong English mustard or blow-your-head-off horseradish sauce.

Eat alone or with good friends as it can be a slurp and spill sort of meal.

The cooked bones are not suitable for dogs, so dispose of carefully.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

I don't think Kole and Lu appreciated the beef rib quite as much as Bruiser did. They both managed to get a fair bit of meat off of it, but they both got pretty bored with it. Bruiser however gnawed on the bone for a good hour or two. When I got him away from it (thank you new binky for the wonderful diversion) it was completely clean of all meat and connective tissue. Initially all three of them pulled the rib out of their bowls, took it to their "place," sniffed it a bit and went back and checked their bowl to see if there was anything else in their bowls. I don't think they cared for it too much at the start because it was a little more difficult to deal with than their customary chicken wing.

I really appreciate all of you all's patience with me in this. My dogs are much shinier than they were two weeks ago, and oh so soft so I know this is better for them. I also think it's helping Bruiser not be quite as much of a giant turd, but the rotten weather lately has kept them all cooped up this past week so he's been a little edgy, but the rain and snow have passed, so we can start going back outside during the day and he'll be more pleasant again.
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

Dont worry, they gotta get used to the fact that food now requires some effort, no more inhaling it!

Im glad its helping Bruiser chill out!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

Bruiser has taken to boycotting his veggies. He hasn't had any in three days. I've drizzled them with olive oil and he doesn't particularly care. I'm going to try to defrost his veggie cube tonight and put it on top of his chicken wings or beef or whatever J took out to feed them tonight and drizzle with olive oil again and see if that fixes it. If it doesn't, any ideas on what I can do? Should I be worried? ATM I'm more irritated than worried because the little turd's refusing to eat them.
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

I wouldnt panic too much about it - when I make veggie mix i make sure theres a dollop of oil in there and some garlic and herbs which most dogs like the taste of (basil in particular mine like, and parsley)..

Once you get them into eating raw a lot of fussyness falls away, and you are left with them only refusing the things they seriously truly dont like/dont agree with them... or plain dont need.

I would probably cut back to offering them a few times a week.

In the uk theres a product called Keepers Mix which i like - http://holisticpetsupplies.co.uk/produc ... ucts_id=51 this gives you a rundown of what it is/whats in it. I wouldnt knowk where to begin to find that in another country, but you could probably find something similar to sprinkle on his food a few times a week. Its the only supplement i tend to bother with really especially if they havent had some veggies for a while.

You'll do no harm if he doesnt get that, plenty of dogs eat raw with no veggies at all, but I like to provide them as im not trying to replicate a natural wild diet, im trying to offer the optimum diet going, in the most natural way possible, so i will give my dogs the opportunity to eat things they might not get 'in the wild'.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

Ok thanks! I'll just stop offering them to him as often so I don't end up wasting them. I didn't put any other herbs but garlic in them the last time I made the veggie mix. Lu LOVES the veggie cubes and will lick them across the kitchen floor, and Kole's much better with them now that he only gets them once a day.
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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Leigha wrote:Bruiser has taken to boycotting his veggies. He hasn't had any in three days.
Striker has done the same!! He's been eating veggie cubes for about 2 weeks now, but the last couple of days he won't. I've tried mixing it with offal, mince, even fillet!!! but nope, no luck. :roll:

So I'm also going to follow Em's advice :D
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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