Raw Food Diet

Discussion dedicated to promoting the well-being of your dog through diet, exercise and general health tips.

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Mrschefiinny
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Mrschefiinny »

Thanks so much, Nettle!! I know it was probably a no-brainer type question for most of you! :oops: I will definitely gate and use the towel!

Great forum!
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dpedaci
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by dpedaci »

Very glad to find this thread, as I've been considering switching my 9 month old dog to a raw diet. Chestnut was born with deformed back legs, the end of his spine is also compromised and his vet recommended glucosomine supplements. I've been wondering if it would be better to increase his glucosomine naturally, as well as thinking cutting out all grains would be better for him (we do currently feed a middle of the road commercial dog food that includes some grain as filler).

I've already been supplementing his diet with both raw and cooked egg, cooked chicken, bacon grease and chopped vegetables. From what I'm reading, it appears it would be best to blend the vegetables, although I've been trying to chop them fine and the only evidence I ever see in his poo is bits of carrot. He's had spinach, lettuce, sweet pepper, green beans, pumpkin, squash and apple, enjoys all of them. He doesn't care for banana.

So, it seems raw chicken bones are okay, and the bones are important to his nutrition. Are other bones okay, or is it just that chicken is easily available and fairly inexpensive so that's what people generally rely on? I'm considering this diet for our cats as well, I'm sure they would benefit.
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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Sorry, I can't answer all your question, but any raw bone is fine, as long as it's not weight bearing - like the bones in legs of cattle for example.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
runlikethewind
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by runlikethewind »

Where are you based? On Amazon, search for raw feeding books. I reference them a lot for my dog's raw diet. There are also Yahoo groups to join too.
Mrschefiinny
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Mrschefiinny »

Okay! So I am back again with a few more questions --- hehehe. Sorry if these questions have already been answered!

I have read different methods on how to make the "switch" from the processed foods, the puppy was used to, to the BARF diet. I've read one instance where a proper 24 hr fast is needed before beginning the raw diet. I've also read to gradually increase the raw food in with the kibble and start weaning the kibble out (maybe a 2 week process total for the full switch over). I've ALSO read --- which may have been on this thread --- that mixing kibble and raw may give the dog runs.... :shock:

Sooo, what is the best way to transition my soon-to-be 10 week old toy/mini Australian shepherd from the kibble she is used to. (by the way, she is only a couple weeks old now, nowhere near ready to be released from the breeder. But i want to start "stocking up on food supplies" now in order to ease my pockets later, so to speak, hehe)

I've seen some great menus that posters like Melissa have shared, which are awesome! Any ideas for pups under 6 months to help with the digestion and stools? For example, applesauce vs diced apples? Does the food have to be pureed a bit more for younger ones? Any ideas on goat milk and if it's a good thing to give them? Should I sear the red meat in a pan to par-cook before serving?
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runlikethewind
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by runlikethewind »

Hi there

I read that kibble and raw transition through at different speeds so you should do a full switchover to 100% raw straight away, There is no point in mixing the two.. so I've read.

I didn't feed my boy raw when he was young as I didn't even know about it all then but I know if I did it now, I want to make sure I was not overloading on calcium because I believe pups cannot get rid of excess calcium and can cause bone problems.
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

We switched ours over to raw with no transition. With the fruits and veg we just put them in the blender and made veggie cubes out of them, so the apples ended up becoming applesauce anyhow. I'd puree the mix and then freeze it in ice cubes, then I could pull the ice cubes out and put it in their bowl. It kept me from having to spend time chopping and washing and what not during the week. We did not partially cook any of our raw meat, we gave everything raw completely. Nettle feeds her baby puppies raw and I've seen pictures of her darlings gnawing on a completely raw bone. I'm sure she'd be able to answer for sure about diet considerations for a puppy that young. I'm not sure that the dogs need goats milk, but I don't know for sure.
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

I switch straight over - I find theres a much higher risk of mixing the two causing tummy troubles than there is by doing a straight swap.

For the first few weeks though I keep the variety down to just a few items, let them get used to that and then gradually add in more variety.

Milk - good rule of thumb is, milk is for the baby animal of the species that produced it. Cows milk is for baby cows. Goats milk for baby goats... dog milk for baby dogs.

No healthy animal should need milk from another species, so a fully weaned puppy does not need goats milk.

Dairy products where the lactose is gone or almost completely gone, ie cheese, yoghurt, are different and whilst animals shouldnt need them... often they do and giving them should do no harm (unlike giving milk where many animals including a lot of humans, are lactose intolerant 'normally'..) as the good bacteria in live yoghurt is generally beneficial.

As far as bones/calcium goes, calcium that the dog gets through eating bones, comes wtih phosphorus too, which teh dog also needs. You would have a pretty hard job overdosing a puppy on calcium by feeding raw MEATY bones, the dog would be blocked up solidly constipated and would in all honesty, stop eating before you achieved it.

As long as you feed appropriate bones - for a small puppy things like chicken wings or even wing tips, and other items with a similar ratio of covering muscle/meat to bone, and give them large recreational bones where they eat very little of the actual bone but spend their time gnawing the covering tissues, gristle and marrow off, you really wont have a problem (I could dig out some more information on this but it is horribly technical).

The problems with excess calcium comes with feeding a complete diet OR a raw diet AND THEN supplementing calcium on top of that. Thats where calcium will then be blocking the uptake of other necessary minerals and cause an issue.

If you follow the rules of feeding bones with a good covering of meat in similar proportions to that of a chicken wing; feeding the puppy ever so slightly LESS than they would actually eat in one go (puppies have no 'fill level!'); keep an eye on stools and adjust daily the meat/fat/bone/offal/veg content so that they are neither too hard or too soft; and keep puppy lean and hard and tending more towards 'scrawny' looking than 'fat' - you really won't have an issue.

Interestingly my Deerhound was raised on a raw diet - partially raw from being weaned and completely raw from 8 weeks old when I got her. For a non-bone related issue she had to have her legs xrayed when still fairly young (under a year) and being a nosy bugger I asked the vet if he could comment on the state of her long bones, joints and growth plates in light of the fact she is raw fed.
He said there was absolutely NO evidence of her having any dietary related abnormalities, her growth plates were closing correctly, no twisting no suspicious lack of bone density, no overgrowth - perfect!

Now I cannot, and nor could he, categorically state that these excellent (his word!) long limb bones and joints are that way because she was raw fed, nor that they would not be excellent had she been fed on complete food - but it DID take away my minor worries (mostly put in my head by complete food fanatics) that raw feeding a giant breed pup could cause issues.
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runlikethewind
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by runlikethewind »

Hi Emmabeth

Very interesting post!! Great you also got validation of the diet following xrays etc. I phoned the RMB Group in the UK before when I wasn't sure about the bone to meat ratio and they said that a raw meaty bones has been misunderstood a little now. What they always meant was a raw meaty bone means a small piece of bone wrapped in a big bit of meat, that it should not be mostly bone. As it is always difficult to find and feed these types of proportions, my freezer is full of bones separate to muscle meat (as wel as my frozen homemade veg nuggets and offal/fish), so I try to balance it over a week, just remembering to feed more meat than bone.
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

You should be able to change over straight away, but be aware that any puppy changing homes can be a bit bewildered and unsure and so eat less well, regardless of what you are feeding it.

Is there any chance your pup could come home at 8 weeks instead of 10? The changeover is easier at 8 weeks because most pups are in a fear period by 10 weeks. Not the end of the world if it can't be done, just factor in that your pup is likely to be very cautious whereas a few weeks previously it would have been bolder. But it all levels out with work from us! :lol:
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Mrschefiinny
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Mrschefiinny »

Thank you, to everyone, for all of your help! I will definitely do the fruit/veggie-cycles as well as starting off with the chicken wings. Should I incorporate the meat with each meal (3x day) in the beginning, like half a wing along with an veggie "cube" each meal? Or a wing twice a day and 3rd meal is veggie/fruit cube with cottage cheese? (nettle : what is the menu you tend to feed your litter?)

I now this question I am going to ask is a bit off topic, but Nettle had mentioned that it's easier to transition a pup @ 8 weeks of age vs 10 weeks. I might have the option of picking our little girl up at 8 weeks, but I am under the impression that it is better for the pup to be with his littermates for as long as possible. Is this fact or fiction?


Thanks again!
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

By 8 weeks they are more than ready to leave their littermates, and sometimes if one pup is a bullying type, are often grateful to! :D There is nothing else they can learn from other pups, and a great deal they need to learn from you :D
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Ditto what Nettle said. He/she will be better off with you from 8 weeks. It's also important to immediately start with socialising, training and what not. The sooner the better :D
Also remember that pups can't be left alone for hours on end, in the beginning it requires you (or someone else) staying at home or taking pupper with you.

For breakfast I feed veggie mix and ground meat, for dinner I feed a raw meaty bone. I can't remember what I used to give Bibi for her mid-day meal when she was a pupper. :?
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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Beckyyy
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Beckyyy »

Thoguht I'd join in here! My 11 month old Dane is raw fed, and I love it. The results speak for themselves, and I can't imagine feeding him complete food now.

I agree with switching straight over with a pup.

When we got our pup at 8 week his breeder (who feeds her dogs raw) was feeding a mix of complete and tripe, so that the new owners could pick which they prefer as raw doesn't appeal to all. He didn't seem to have any problems switching straight away. At first I used to give chicken wings a good bashing with a hammer until he got the hang of crunching them properly, which didn't take long!

Dairy... He gets live natural yoghurt, a good sized dollop (bear in mind he's a Great Dane so one mouthful is a small pot :lol:), and he loves it. That's the only dairy he gets regularly. Now and then he'll get other bits, the odd cube of cheese if I've cut too much or egg if I've got too many left over, but they're more treats than staples for him.

I would personally include meat in every meal, but I don't see why it would make too much difference if you decide to mix things around more. When we first got Duke we gave him meat as a staple each meal, then incorporated everything else in with the meat.

His staples were/are minced meat with bone included... chicken, turkey, beef, tripe, pheasant, venison (pheasant and venison slightly less often), but we were luck enough to have a pet food supplier which stocked raw within delivery distance. Chicken wings, then onto carasses when we found a supplier. Lamb ribs and beef shanks. He doesn't get veggies every day, minced up a couple of times a week, but he enjoys them! Fish - we usually get him tinned sardines in sunflower oil, but very occassionally we'll pick up a couple of fresh fish from a fish counter for him - he loves both but usually gets tinned. We usually buy him sliced liver from the supermarket weekly, sometimes we'll chop it up and add it to his mince sometimes we'll give it to him in the slices on it's own, he prefers it with something else though as he's not the biggest fan of the texture.

The poos from my dog are excellent, not to mention their consistency is great for helping to keep anal glands nice and empty.


Slightly off topic, but pop a few carrots in the freezer too - our pup LOVED them while he was teething. He chewed them more than eating them, but he enjoyed them so much.
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leslie123
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by leslie123 »

In the most recent podcast they briefly touched on raw feeding. Victoria said she didn't know a lot about it, though she had fed her own dog raw for 6 months and they solicited emails from anyone with experience feeding raw.
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