Raw Food Diet

Discussion dedicated to promoting the well-being of your dog through diet, exercise and general health tips.

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yummybagel
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by yummybagel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:40 am

I read in a website that giving vegetables regularly can cause premature greying in a dog because vegetables stress out the pancreas. Just wondering if anyone heard of this? I ask because my Beagle started getting white hair on his face, especially around the eyes at the age of 3 and a half. I realize it can be genetic, but wanted to know if anyone experienced it or anything.

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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:14 am

Oh dear oh dear oh dear :roll: you do come across some funny ideas.

Dogs go grey. Some go grey quite young. If vegetables stressed out the pancreas, all us BARF-ers would have diabetic dogs.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Dawnflight1984
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Dawnflight1984 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:28 am

yummybagel wrote:I read in a website that giving vegetables regularly can cause premature greying in a dog because vegetables stress out the pancreas. Just wondering if anyone heard of this? I ask because my Beagle started getting white hair on his face, especially around the eyes at the age of 3 and a half. I realize it can be genetic, but wanted to know if anyone experienced it or anything.
I don't know how reliable the website is, but I reckon we will see mostly white dogs all over the world if it was true because they "add vegetables" even in kibbles these days. I don't think vegetables will cause premature greying...

JudyN
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by JudyN » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:22 am

A quick Google suggests that the sites that mention this also implicate grain - so given the amount of grain in the majority of commercial foods, BARFers have nothing to worry about.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Erica
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Erica » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:54 am

Opal and Zeus started getting grey muzzles before they were 6 months old. :lol: While Zeus probably had some veggies, Opal is very picky and doesn't eat most veggies. (Steamed broccoli is one of her favorite things, though.)
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

yummybagel
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by yummybagel » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:00 am

JudyN wrote:A quick Google suggests that the sites that mention this also implicate grain - so given the amount of grain in the majority of commercial foods, BARFers have nothing to worry about.
Hmm, that is very true. Thanks, everyone! Silly me worrying about vegetables. :mrgreen:

Suzette
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Suzette » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:14 am

yummybagel wrote:
JudyN wrote:A quick Google suggests that the sites that mention this also implicate grain - so given the amount of grain in the majority of commercial foods, BARFers have nothing to worry about.
Hmm, that is very true. Thanks, everyone! Silly me worrying about vegetables. :mrgreen:
Not silly at all! :D Food can be a confusing issue with our dogs, just look how the raisin, so healthy for us, is poison to our dogs. So it was very wise of you to come and ask when you had a doubt about veggies and the dogs health. I commend you for it! :D
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OnceInAWeil
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by OnceInAWeil » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:25 am

So I read the whole thing, though I did skim in some parts so forgive me if this has been covered:

I heard that some dogs can have adverse reactions to chicken (even ones who were fed kibble with chicken in it, as apparently cooking changes the protein). I tried giving Tony chicken quarters last year and he got the runs, but that could be because I left the skin on and it was amongst kibble feedings. The question is, when determining if your dog is okay with chicken, how many days should I give it before deciding that chicken just isn't for him? Like if he is still having runny poops after 5 days, should I try something different? Or give it more time?

I will probably try giving him a bit of yogurt before the chicken this time, and take the skin off. He hasn't had any kibble since yesterday about this time, and I read here that 12 hours is a suitable gap between kibble and raw...is that right? I'm hoping to run to the store and get some chicken quarters (which already include the offal, I believe?), plain yogurt and fruits/veggies after our morning walk.


I am not going to go anywhere near red meat right now, but I am really concerned about when I do. He has had some raw ground beef before, and in the middle of that night he had made two huge, black, stinking puddles on my carpet which took forever to properly clean up. It was quite horrific. I don't imagine it was pleasant for him, either! How can I introduce red meat in such a way that this does NOT happen?

Dawnflight1984
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Dawnflight1984 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:48 am

OnceInAWeil wrote:So I read the whole thing, though I did skim in some parts so forgive me if this has been covered:

I heard that some dogs can have adverse reactions to chicken (even ones who were fed kibble with chicken in it, as apparently cooking changes the protein). I tried giving Tony chicken quarters last year and he got the runs, but that could be because I left the skin on and it was amongst kibble feedings. The question is, when determining if your dog is okay with chicken, how many days should I give it before deciding that chicken just isn't for him? Like if he is still having runny poops after 5 days, should I try something different? Or give it more time?
Runny poos are usually a sign of sensitivity and intolerance. Starting with a little bit and increasing amount slowly usually helps, kind of like when starting to feed offals. Personally, when feeding my hypersensitive girl and she gets runny poo from a particular protein, I start with just 20g (half a bite) and work it up slowly to her usual 120g. It may mean she's a little hungry for a few days but dogs do binge and fast... If she's still not doing well after going slow like that, I give up on that protein.
I will probably try giving him a bit of yogurt before the chicken this time, and take the skin off. He hasn't had any kibble since yesterday about this time, and I read here that 12 hours is a suitable gap between kibble and raw...is that right? I'm hoping to run to the store and get some chicken quarters (which already include the offal, I believe?), plain yogurt and fruits/veggies after our morning walk.
I don't know about whether I'm right, but yogurt is a dairy product and contains lactose as well. I know many who are lactose-intolerant who can take yogurt (myself included!) but it may just not be too agreeable with your dog's tummy and still give her diarrhoea (like my Oreo! :P) Also, fruits and veggies (high in fibre) can lead to "smoother" poos (aka softer poo).

Personally, I'll give less fruit and veg and yogurt if I'm trying out a protein and I'm not getting nice poo. What I will do is this, give probiotic powder (either a human/doggie variety, preferably with more strains), give a little more cooked carbs, sweet potato or even pumpkin (good for both constipation and diarrhoea!), on a different meal in the day for the time being, to make me feel better about feeding her so little protein :lol: and to keep my dog feeling a little more satiated.

OnceInAWeil
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by OnceInAWeil » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:29 pm

I will definitely get some canned pumpkin, thanks.

ClareMarsh
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ClareMarsh » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Personally I'd stick with the chicken for a good few days, if not weeks, before even adding veggies (if you're going to, I only give them as treats now and then), I'd also not be in a rush to give yoghurt, you can get tablet probiotics if you feel he needs them.

The reason. I suggest this is the fewer variables you have the easier it is to work out what is disagreeing with him (if anything). Once you have stability add each thing (any type of different protein, offal, veg etc) one at a time.
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JudyN
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by JudyN » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:51 pm

ClareMarsh wrote:Personally I'd stick with the chicken for a good few days, if not weeks
I'd agree with that - but I'd also remove every scrap of skin to start with.

Clare will probably disagree, but I'd also be tempted to start with chicken mince, as long as it contains a good proportion of minced bone and cartilage as well as just muscle meat. My reason for this is that not only would Jasper pass bone in the afternoons, but also be a bit runny and my belief is now that not only was he unable to digest the bone, but that it irritated his tummy too. Introducing bone in mince could prepare the stomach acids to digest bone so larger bits of bone are less likely to cause a problem when introduced.

If you fed chicken quarters for a few days and he never passed any bits of bone despite having a runny bum, then maybe this isn't relevant, though, as he must have been digesting it...
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

OnceInAWeil
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by OnceInAWeil » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:36 pm

His first poo after eating was VERY runny, almost liquid. There were also some rice-grain-sized chunks of what I'm assuming was undigested chicken. I initially tried to let him have the whole leg quarter (couldn't find quarters of the whole chicken) to crunch a few pieces off before distracting him, and expected him to remember how to crunch it, but he just licked it for about 15 minutes. So I cut off a few small pieces of meat--no bone--and fed them to him (skin was removed and fatty deposits avoided). Fed a rounded tablespoon of canned pumpkin for the evening meal. Will try breaking off a part with more bone than flesh for his breakfast tomorrow.

gwd
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by gwd » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:01 pm

OnceInAWeil wrote:His first poo after eating was VERY runny, almost liquid. There were also some rice-grain-sized chunks of what I'm assuming was undigested chicken. I initially tried to let him have the whole leg quarter (couldn't find quarters of the whole chicken) to crunch a few pieces off before distracting him, and expected him to remember how to crunch it, but he just licked it for about 15 minutes. So I cut off a few small pieces of meat--no bone--and fed them to him (skin was removed and fatty deposits avoided). Fed a rounded tablespoon of canned pumpkin for the evening meal. Will try breaking off a part with more bone than flesh for his breakfast tomorrow.
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OnceInAWeil
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by OnceInAWeil » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:37 pm

:cries into hands:

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