high protien= more reactive, hyper, aggressive dogs?

[ruckusluvr]

a very knowledgeable person that I do agility with said that by feeding my dogs TOTW (high protein, grain free dog food) I was feeding them rocket fuel

I have two reactive shelties, and she said that the high protein food can make them more reactive! Is that true? and where is the studies and the evidence?

one of my shelties have been HORRIBLE lately, and the only thing that changed was the dog food. but i just found out that he has a grain sensitivity and so he is going to have to be on a high protein food, since grain free is all high protein

[Nettle]

Shelties are only small so you can easily feed less processed food and top up the bulk with lots of lightly-cooked green vegetables and an apple or pear or some pumpkin.

If they start to look thin, add some more of the protein food.

High protein can be rocket fuel on dogs but it depends on the protein source. Fish and meat is natural for them: grain isn't, so as a generalisation, you can feed more fish and meat protein and not get the crazy response.

Most crazy response is allied to cereal protein, sugars, colouring and artificial additives in the food.

But every dog is an individual and what suits one may not suit another.

Feed the dog in front of you, not a generic "dog" on a packet of foodstuffs.

See what happens and keep us closely informed We are here to help.

[ruckusluvr]

I am worried that by feeding less dog food and more veggies that i could mess up their nutrition. I am really not comfortable taking that chance.

and i have big shelties! a 35lb and a 41lb both way oversized! 17 inches, and one is 20 inches. LOL

we feed taste of the wild high prairie, and taste of the wild wetlands.

[Nettle]

That is TALL for Shelties

Green veggies won't mess up nutrition. They add fibre, water, trace elements, water-soluble vitamins (so any unused is peed away) and dog-healthy carbohydrate.

But do what you feel happy with. It was only a suggestion.

[Mattie]

I have a dog that is alergic to grains, he is fine with white rice but can't eat brown, I know of several other dogs that can have white rice but not brown.

You could try your dog with white rice to see if he can eat it.

[monib1969]

Hi,

I am an all raw/homemade feeder and advocate so my opinion varies a little from most. Dogs are carnivores at heart, one must remember that. In the wild and if your pet is left to their own devices they will hunt for meat. Deer, cats (they are easy pickins), rabbits etc and will scrounge for scraps. You won't see them invading the corn field or vegetable garden. They are omnivores simply because if it's there they will eat it, where cats are true obligate carnivores and need nothing but meat in their diet.

With that being said, we have used TOTW and recommend it to clients that cannot go raw/homemade financially. Also, you can try NAtural Balance Limited ingredients food. I recommend the venison and sweet potato. EVO, Innova adn Canidae are a few others that are excellent. I also highly recommend dehydrated foods such as Honest Kitchen and prefer dehydrated over kibble, but these are not always an alternative for some financially. But if you can mix the kibble withthe dehydrated mix that would be good too. Also, you want to avoid foods with any fish meal in them,because even though legally the manufacturers do not have to state this, ALL fish meal in the US is preserved with ethoxyquin. Which is a carcinogen that causes ulcers, stomach cancer, GI problems, spontaneous abortion in pregnant females, birth defects and more. So try to avoid any fish meal, if it lower down on the ingredient list then there is less of it. The top 4 ingredients are the main bulk holders in kibble foods. Whole fish if stated like herring or salmon is good. Salmon is the best because of the Omega-3 fatty acids it contains.

A high quality protein will not cause hyper acitivity or aggression. The chemicals, colorings, sugars (beet pulp), non food items (like cellulose) junk fillers and low quality protein in by-product, meat meals etc can cause behavioral problems.

[jjphoenix]

i have to disagree, high portein foods can be a cause of hyperactivity, etc. however it does depend on what the protein source in the food is. I completely understand the description 'rocket fuel!'. I was originally to this by a behaviourist, i was sceptical but i gave it a go and have npticed a big difference. Dogs cannot live by meat alone as they are not carnivores, although obviously they do have a high meat content diet. This is why health problems occur when dogs eat cat or ferret food, a ferret is a true carnivore and their dried food would make a dog very ill. This is where some people go wrong with barf diets, I know of some who think that just meat is good when that is detrimental to the dogs health due to the dog not getting the correct nutrition.

what specifically is his grain sensitivuty, what foods have you tried so far with them? would those foods with potato instead be any good, burns do a pork and potato, a high oats, chicken and maize, wet food lamb and rice which has no grain this is the ingredients Lamb 58%, Rice 10%, Carrots 4%, Peas 2%
if you email them from their internet site and explain exacty what his intolerances are then a nutritionist will respond with some suggestions, and they will send you free samples to try etc, they are really good, if they dont have anything thats suitable they will say.

orijiin also do good dried food that may be suitable, although i have never fed it i was told that it has the correct protein source to not encourage hyperactivity?

also wainwrights do a salmon and potato food, ive had to put mine on it while i've been at home as i ran out, but i dont think its that good, my len reacts to certain foods and the wainrights isnt agreeing with him as well as the burns pork and potato that he is usually on.

[Nettle]

Just to clarify - and short for brevity not rudeness:

Dogs are carnivores with omnivore capability (pointed teeth, short gut, no chewing). They are not obligate carnivores like ferrets and cats ie they can survive on low-meat or meat-free diets but they are not at optimum health on them.

BARF is NOT a pure meat diet. Barf is a whole-carcase diet. As most of us don't want to feed guts, we add fruit and vegetables, but not cereal starches, which latter is not part of a whole-carcase diet.

Commercial ferret food contains grain starch, often beet pulp, and is not therefore good for ferrets. They survive on it but are not healthy.They too ideally need a whole-carcase diet. They cannot process vegetable fibre and do not need it.

[monib1969]

Hi,

Here is a copy of our raw diet for a male GSD 90lbs, you wil see it is not all meat. Andnot just chicken wings but a variety of meats. We also during hunting season include wild turkey and venison, which dogs absolutely love the venison and antelope. So feeding a proper raw diet like this is not economical for everyone,and if one cannot afford to do it the proper way, you will hinder your pets health. I'd gon next best thing which is dehydrated foods, then after that holisitc/natural kibbles.

One pound of chicken necks or backs or leg quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts / gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitmain E

Tuesday

6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys
8 oz. Chicken necks or backs of Leg Quarters
One egg w/shell
1/4 cup of ground veggies
Salmon Oil
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E

Wednesday

One can of mackerel
1/4 cup veggies
8oz. Chicken necks or backs or Chicken Leg Quarters
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E

Thursday

One pound of chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts and gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E

Friday

6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys
8 oz. Chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
One egg w/shell
1/4 cup of ground veggies
Salmon Oil
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 Unites of Vitamin E

Saturday

One pound of chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 unites of Vitamin E

Sunday

One can sardines
1/4 cup veggies
1 pound Chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
Salmon Oil
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 Unites of Vitamin E

We gave 1 tsp. of Syn Flex glucosamine daily to our Mature

[jjphoenix]

sorry no i didnt mean that barf diet is solely meat, i do know that. I just said I know a lot people who think that feeding just chicken wings etc is a barf diet, unlike what its supposed to be, which is like monib1969 feeds. just to clarify!

there are so many dog foods that do contain all these fillers etc (which are obviously rubbish), but it is not all, there are a few good quality dried food diets out there too that dont have these fillers etc in them. it is also the same with ferret foods. Many of the dried completes are again rubbish but there are a few that are good. Again its all about reading the ingredients in every food and working out which one is best for your animals, personally I have 5 rescue ferrets, all of which are perfectly healthy on the dried food that they are on and only one of them will actually touch any sort of raw carcass i offer them, from rabbit, mice, chicks etc. but then again i like everyone on here goes through the labels of each thing with a fine tooth comb, not every pet owner does!

[ruckusluvr]

thanks for the help everyone.
I do not know what grain Ruckus is sensitive too. I honestly cannot afford an allergy test at this time.
Ruckus is doing great on TOTW pacific stream. it has much lower protein than the other formulas. I really do think that this is going to work for us. I was hoping to do a rotation diet though.
but right now he is on TOTW pacific stream and he is even getting some blue buffalo canned food (not grain free) mixed in his dry and is doing awesome! so whatever grain he is sensitive too is NOT in blue buffalo canned formulas.

[jjphoenix]

thats brill im glad you've found something that works! i read the back of the salmon and potato wainrights, it has 10% barley in it so that one might not be a great shout. we had to do try so many different foods when we got len, its so annoying trying to isolate things!

[Mattie]

thanks for the help everyone.
I do not know what grain Ruckus is sensitive too. I honestly cannot afford an allergy test at this time.

I may be able to help with this, can you put up a list of ingredients, all of them, and a photo of your dog, and I will dowse to see if I can find what he is alergic to. Done this with one of my own dogs who was having siezures because of alergies, not had a seizure since, and have done this for many other owners.

[ruckusluvr]

he has been on the following foods. He was itchy, shed alot, and had thin dry coat.

Nutro Chicken and oatmeal
Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Whole Brown Rice, Chicken, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Oatmeal, Pea Protein, Natural Flavors, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Sodium Bicarbonate, L-Lysine, Salt, Choline Chloride, Egg Product, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Copper Proteinate, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Iams healthy naturals
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewer's Rice, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Brewer's Dried Yeast, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Flax Meal, Apple Pomace, Dried Carrots, Dried Peas, Choline Chloride, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), L-Carnitine, Rosemary Extract

and Then Diamond. Diamond Naturals made him keep horrible poops, and he puked up bile daily.
Lamb meal, ground rice, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, rice bran, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

This is what he is doing good on
TOTW pacific stream
Salmon, ocean fish meal, sweet potatoes, potatoes, canola oil, salmon meal, smoked salmon, potato fiber, natural flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Blue buffalo canned
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Carrots, Peas, Sweet Potatoes, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Guar Gum, Salt, Flaxseed, Blueberries, Cranberries, Potassium Chloride, Carrageenan, Cassia, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin (Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc), Iron Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron), Copper Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper), Manganese Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese), Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Choline Chloride.

[Mattie]

There are some things showing up but the food she is on now seems ok mainly but will pm you