spaying/netering before 1 year old

[josie1918]

I also while not disputing anyones choices here, just want to say that I have owned and fostered many, many dogs over the years. Besides what I have been taught as a veterinary technician, I can tell you I have NEVER had problems with any of my early spay or neuter dogs. They deveolped physically and mentally very nicely. Not everyone clearly has had the same luck, but it does give me cause to wonder if it is truly caused by the early spay and neuter or by the health of the mother dog when she was pregnant and nursing. We find almost weekly skiiny, mal nourished or dead mother dogs, dumped in ditches and trash dumpsters with the litter of puppies, you just know these animals have not recieved good nutrition. Also, greedy breeders will breed dogs with dysplasia, after all there is money to be made here. I am NOT saying ANYONE is wrong here, I am just telling you of my experiences. We all make our own choices.

[Mattie]

It is thanks to boards like this that many responsible owners are learning to reseach into neutering and spaying before they get their dogs done and more and more are now waiting until a dog matures or a ***** has her first season.

I'm finding the opposite with bitches. More are being spayed pre first season.

[/quote]

How strange, I am finding that more and more owners who haven't got their dog from a rescue are waiting until after the first season.

Unfortunately most of the sites for spaying and neutering don't give the problems only the good side. This is very misleading as people are getting their dogs done at an early age when they would have prefered to wait. Not so long ago I did research to find sites that gave both sides and found very few, still in single figures, but the amount of sites that promoted early neutering was in 3 figures.

But people are also affected by scaremongering.
Suggest that there is an increased risk of bone cancer and you will inevitably put people off.
Never mind the fact that only some breeds are more at risk and actually spelling out the real risk figures. How about campaigning against the breeding of dogs with a genetic predisposition towards bone cancer whether neutered or not?

Scaremongering shouldn't happen either, it happens with those that recommend early spaying, they are also scaremongering when they say about the mamory cancer, spaying may reduce this but a ***** can still get it whether they are spayed or not.

I don't like one sided presentation of partial facts either. I don't think pro neuters do themselves any favours by overstating their case and ignoring possible adverse effects, but neither do those in the opposite camp.
I've probably done much of the same investigation as you have and my conclusion is that, on balance and for most dogs the benefits of early neutering outweigh the potential adverse effects both in terms of health and behaviour.

It would depend on your lifesyle to a certain degree, to me the benefits of waiting until a ***** has had her first season outweighs those of early spay. I have noticed a big difference in the way my bitches behave before and after their first season, they seem to mature a lot during these 3 weeks.

But then I'm not looking at it from the pov of someone who chooses to have giant dogs with a relatively short life expectancy. (I don't know what dogs you have yourself.)

I have a real mottly crew, going down in size, I have an ex racing Greyhound, Greyhound/Mal, Collie/Lab, JRT/Whippet and an ex breeding Staffy. The little girl who was pts 2 months ago was a Staffy/Cairn Terrier.

Pam[/quote]

[Mattie]

Not everyone clearly has had the same luck, but it does give me cause to wonder if it is truly caused by the early spay and neuter or by the health of the mother dog when she was pregnant and nursing. We find almost weekly skiiny, mal nourished or dead mother dogs, dumped in ditches and trash dumpsters with the litter of puppies, you just know these animals have not recieved good nutrition. Also, greedy breeders will breed dogs with dysplasia, after all there is money to be made here. I am NOT saying ANYONE is wrong here, I am just telling you of my experiences. We all make our own choices.

We get this as well Jo, may not be as often as you do but it still happens. Tilly was quite old for a pup going into a pound at 19 weeks, many are often 4 to 5 weeks old and sometimes younger. This doesn't include the litters that are abandoned with or without mum.

[Fundog]

Okay, weighing in with my two pence. As has been touched upon by others already, I think the biggest incentive we are seeing for the early spay and neuter campaign in the U.S. is, in a nutshell, the stupidity and irresponsibility of dog owners nation-wide. For some reason, exercising common sense, and obeying the leash-laws is just too difficult for some knot-heads to do. So people don't keep their intact males confined on their own property, but let the dogs walk themselves, and perhaps even court a vulnerable female in heat. Or the people who decide to wait until their female pup's first season to spay, but don't take the precautions necessary to keep randy males from gaining access to her. So they end up with a litter of puppies nobody wants. Or... (this is the one that really burns me up) we get the knot-heads who think it would be a great idea to breed two "cute dogs" together, just to "see what we get." Heavens to mergatroid!

So naturally, due to the over population of irresponsible, human idiots in this country who are two sandwiches short of a picnic, the shelters and rescues have implemented the requirements for early spay and neuter, BEFORE the pets are old enough to share their DNA with the next generation of homeless puppies, born to the next generation of sandwich-less knot-heads.

As to my own experience with early spay, I've got one girl who we had spayed at four months (required by the shelter). She recovered beautifully, and she matured into a marvellous, well-adjusted, even gracious dame. I've also got another dog who was, judging by her teat development, spayed after she had had at least one season. However, at two years old, she is still very much a baby. I think this immaturity may have more to do with the neglect and abuse she suffered at the hands of her original owner.

In summary, too many owners are lazy and irresponsible, and that is why we have so many homeless, unwanted pets crowding the shelters and rescues.

:Fundog steps off her soapbox:

[josie1918]

Rock on Fundog!!! And just to share, my own personal favorite for breeding a dog "we wanted the kids to see a live birth". I might also add that frequently this mentality is also the one dumping the dog and the litter out in the country cause they dont want to bother with a dog. Ach the more I know of people the better I like my dog

[Mattie]

As a child there were no puppy farms and very few byb, people didn't bother to spay or neuter their dogs, if you had a ***** you kept her in, if she escaped and got to a dog there was always plenty of people who wanted a pup. Very few owners let their ***** have more than 1 litter, they made sure next time she was in season she didn't escape.

Then along came puppy farms and more people thought they could make money out of their bitches.

[Emmy'sMama]

I live in a fairly rural area of VA--just outside Charlottesville, which is a very dog-loving city--and there are at least three dogs who run around the neighborhood all day, every day. Two are neutered, but one is not. Whenever I walk my dog (who is spayed), the other dogs approach us to play. However, I wonder if I had a female who wasn't spayed and who was in heat and was approached by a male who was also in-tact, if I could stop them from breeding. Once, for example, a male pitt bull (I believe he was in-tact) was out and came to play. He was so big that I could hardly keep Emmy moving and then he pushed his way into the house. It took me three attempts of trying to slam the door quickly to keep him out. I probably would have had even less control had this dog been trying to mate with Emmy. And yet, in this scenario, I would have Emmy on a leash, I would be playing the responsible dog owner. Of course, the owner of the male in question would be irresponsible. And yet, I would then have a litter of Samoyed-Pitt Bull pups on my hands. Here in the United States, it is not always easy to find owners, esp. responsible owners, for such puppies because there is already an overabundance of dogs. The supply exceeds the demand. So I'm guessing that at least some of these pups would end up in animal shelters, even if I initially was able to find homes for them.

I have worked in animal shelters around this area and my opinion is that it would be better to have a few well-cared-for, if slightly immature dogs than to have perfectly lovely animals get passed over at the shelter each week. Oftentimes, because of lack of volunteers, these dogs are only taken out of their pens once a week for walks. I'm guessing that this sort of captivity and isolation, sometimes for months on end, could have a larger impact on a dog's personality than early spay/neuter. And, because shelters often don't have a good screening process (they often can't afford to be too picky), they can't guarantee that the owners (some are very rural, even, dare I say it, rednecky) won't let their dogs run around unchecked. In fact, chances are that many will be allowed to run free. This is why shelters here in the US are so adamant about spay/neuter.

And then there are also the backyard breeders who acquire pure bred dogs merely to make money by breeding. Often these people aren't too careful either. In fact, my foster dog, Lily (I fostered her over a year ago), had ended up in the shelter with 13 siblings at seven weeks old, the offspring of a backyard breeder's yellow lab (or maybe two yellow labs) who had gotten out and mixed with another type of dog. Actually, Lily looked almost completely like a lab puppy, but because she was not purebred and therefore could not be sold for a couple hundred bucks, she and her siblings ended up at the shelter. Some, including Lily, were adopted within a day, but then, as one-by-one, they fell ill with parvo, they were returned to the shelter. In the end, only about four lived, including Lily.

Because she had been sick for so long (at least in dog terms) and during an important developmental stage, had been separated from her mother and siblings too early, Lily was rather immature, even for an 8/9 week-old puppy. Of course, she was a wonderful little creature and I'm sure she matured as she aged (she ended going to a rescue that is very careful about placing their animals). But my point is that there are various factors that could contribute to an individual dog's personality, his/her level of maturity. Early spay/neuter is only one concern and, given my experience with shelters and irresponsible owners, I wholly support the shelters' spay/neuter campaign, and I will as long as there are irresponsible owners.

If responsible dog owners want to wait on the spaying/neutering, more power to them. I agree that there may very well be potential benefits to waiting. But then, I also wonder if even the most responsible dog owner can always control his/her surroundings. And even the most responsible dog owner might slip up on occasion (a dog might accidentally get loose, etc.).

[china_cat84]

Just thought I'd post my 2 cents!

I know a lot of people who run shelters for dogs, cats, and many other animals as well. And yes, here in the states (at least here in Iowa and across the river into Nebraska) we have seen a large influx of abandoned animals. The shelter owners and directors have told me that a lot of it is economy related. So many people are losing their jobs and the banks are foreclosing on their homes that they can't keep their pets anymore - either their new homes (usually either a rental apartment or moving in with friends or relatives) won't let them keep their pets, or they just plain can't afford it anymore.

And most rental housing in my area - if they actually let you have a pet in the home - requires that you spay/neuter your pet. If, for some reason, your pet is too young you will need documentation from your vet as well as a signed contract that you WILL "fix" your pet.

I've lived with quite a few dogs in my lifetime - some were neutered early, some were neutered later, and some weren't neutered at all. There never seemed to be any psychological differences at all and all dogs grew to be well developed and healthy. In fact, we never had a dog that became sick with cancer or had diabetes or anything - all passed due to old age. The only dog I've ever had that was ill is my chihuahua who is nearly 6 and is hypoglycemic which is common for chihuahuas. It was worse when she was a pup because she'd exercise a lot and then she'd be shaky and woozy because of her low blood sugar.

I, personally, don't think it's the best decision to neuter super early and I also don't think it's best to not neuter at all - if not for the health benefits (if you believe them) then for responsible pet ownership. Many people have argued with me that it's not necessary to neuter a male because he doesn't have the pups, the female does. Well, the female doesn't do it all on her own! And who's to say that your unaltered male won't escape someday and impregnate a stray unaltered female? The poop puppies wouldn't even have a chance. I've also found that if male dogs are neutered at a reasonable age, they mark less. I've always lived in multi-dog households so that also contributes to the marking - but by neutering them between the ages of 6 mos to 1 year it reduces the incidents.

Of course, this is purely my own opinion and I'm not trying to step on any toes - I'm just stating my experience.

[Nettle]

All experience is useful and that's why we share it here.

My own take comes from keeping whole dogs and b itches, and breeding the occasional carefully-planned litter. Responsible dog owners don't generally have "accidents" though I agree that there is always that potential. I have done a lot of work with rescue and come across countless spayed bitches with urinary incontinence, I have seen castrated dogs mate and tie, I personally know of neutered dogs with prostate cancer and neutered bitches with mammary cancer. I make a living from behaviour work and I know the differences, physical and mental, from neutering too young, and from keeping dogs of either gender whole.

That's my experience to share. It is important that we make informed choices and then we can make the best choices for us and our particular circumstances.

None of it is perfect: we have to work with the imperfections we can manage, and also within the laws of where we live, and what our landlords insist upon.