Fetch training- bringing the ball back

jwilder · Post by **jwilder** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:48 pm

We have a 3 y/o australian cattle dog and are trying to teach her to fetch so we can exercise her better indoors during the winter when it's well below zero outside and we can't take her running or be outside for long periods of time.

Lucy responds very well to clicker training, and so far we've got her to go after a toy and grab it, but we can't get over the hurdle to bring it back to us. When she grabs it and walks towards us a few steps, we click to reward the behavior and then she drops the toy and comes running for her treat. If we don't click, trying to delay the click until she returns with the toy, she loses interest and wanders off. The same when we call her instead of clicking - she drops the toy and comes back without it.

Any suggestions how to train this last part? She's so freaking smart that sometimes I can't tell if she doesn't get it, or if she does get it but she's just being stubborn.

prolibertate · Post by **prolibertate** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:10 am

She's not being stubborn

You have a herding dog, who may not like to play fetch as much as a Lab would, or who doesn't understand how to play that way.

You can try getting her to bring it back to you by doing a couple of things: first, don't throw it long distances at first; try a couple of feet. then, call her to you in a high, excited voice, saying 'bring it here!'. DON'T click until she brings it to you (you should also work on 'drop it' once she starts to bring it to you reliably, if she doesn't already know 'drop it'). When she brings it to you, click and treat, and always praise.

After she starts reliably bringing it to you from a few feet, go a little longer - just a few more feet. Once she gets that, try a few more feet. You want her to stay interested in what you're doing. make it a game, be excited, praise and treat, and she may learn to love fetching.

Also, grab a copy of Play with Your Dog by Pat Miller. It has some excellent training, tips and games to play with your dogs, and ways to help them learn how to play (some dogs don't know how to - some owners too! I learned a lot from it).

jwilder · Post by **jwilder** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:57 pm

Thanks for the suggestions, MaryAnn. I looked up that Pat Miller book, and it looks perfect for us. Lucy definitely does not know how to play - she was never given toys or playtime as a puppy, and we're sure she was punished for making noise or being playful, so we're really struggling with how to teach her that play is a fun, good thing. This book looks to be a great help for us!

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:54 pm

My Springer Spaniel mix will fetch, and even bring it back-- but she won't drop it. Instead, she keeps it just out of reach, wanting me to chase her for it, or tug. She loves to play (I don't like to chase, or tug). I've tried using treats to "trade" her for the toy, but intstead, as soon as she sees the treat, she drops the toy while she's still far away, and comes running for the treat, forgetting all about the toy. I've tried demonstrating what I want her to do, by retrieving the toy and taking it to where I was waiting (that's how I trained my cat to fetch), but she just doesn't get it. All she can think about is the treat. How should I put the treat/drop command together so it works? So far all I can do is either pry her mouth open while using the "drop it" command, or just walk away from her until she gives in. Or another tactic I will use is to sneak up on her and steal the toy when she lets her guard down.

Nettle · Post by **Nettle** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:46 am

Fundog, teach it backwards. Teach her to 'hold it' and 'give'. This is ideal with clicker and titbits. Start with her on-lead so she can't run about, start with her in a 'sit' and take your time, just a couple of sessions at a time.

Then when she is secure in 'hold it' and 'give' keep her on-lead but hold the retrieve item lower so she has to reach down for it, until she is taking it from floor level.

Then teach her in a narrow place like a corridor (if you don't have one, create one) where she goes out to the retrieve item and has nowhere to go with it but back to you.

When a dog approaches with a retrieve, you crouch down, turn your head away and do not make direct eye contact. It's very off-putting for a dog coming in towards you and is the cause of many a failed retrieve, as is the wearing of sunglasses, which spooks dogs similarly.

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:46 am

Thank you, Nettle. I will try what you've suggested, and experiment on one of my next nights off, when I have plenty of time to practice. I'll let you know later on how it works!

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:27 am

Hi Nettle, I just wanted to follow up with you regarding your advice: Last night I was eating some toast, and Annie wanted some. She brought me her rawhide and offered it up as a trade, lol! So I took advantage of the moment for a training opportunity. I broke off a bit of toast in one hand, and put my other hand under her chin, and said, "drop it." That was highly effective. So after she ate the bite of toast, I picked up her rawhide, offered it back to her (which she took it), then broke off another bit of toast, and repeated. Again, instant. But after that things sort of unravelled, since I wasn't really set up for it. She wandered off with the rawhide, and when she noticed I had another treat, she dropped the rawhide right where she was and came to me without it. I tried to get her to take the rawhide back, but she didn't want it-- she just wanted the treat (even though I had switched to ordinary dog food, lol!) Oh well. That wasn't too bad, for an impromptu game. I'll try it again another time.

Nettle · Post by **Nettle** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:08 am

You did really well, but here is a secret of dog training:

When you get the result, quit!

All you did was push too far too long.

First time get nearly what you want, quit.

Next time get what you want, quit.

Time after that get what you want twice, quit.

Time between exercises - as long as a week. It is easy to sicken dogs of retrieving. Unless it is bred into them, they really don't see the point. Your dog did fine, then got bored. Clever trainers stop before that point

Nearly there and well done!

Fundog · Post by **Fundog** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:04 pm

LOL, thanks for the tip. I don't feel so bad now. I was concerned that maybe we didn't do it enough times for her to "get it," but maybe she is just a lot smarter than I give her credit for (not that I think she's dull in the first place). After all, I got the desired result twice in a row, and right off the bat. Then she got wise and tired of it. I will take your advice to heart, and be encouraged-- Thanks again!