Victoria on Raw Diets?

[akreisle]

So, I live in the U.S., and as of now, Fat Dog Slim is not available here. I was curious what Victoria's take on the Raw food diet craze that's going on here in the states. I trust her opinion greatly, and it seems from her show she reccomends dog food.

Just to try the raw diet out, I gave my dog a raw chicken leg, and he looked at me like I was crazy, sniffed it, licked it once, and then walked away. I tried to give him some veggie mush, but he wouldn't even lick it! He went on a hunger strike until I broke out the Blue Buffalo dog food again.

I'm also not convinced I could really provide a balanced diet to my dog without breaking the bank and investing interly too much time, like the owners of Toadie and Smartie!

So has anyone read Victoria's new book, and what does she have to say about the raw diet?

[ckranz]

Haven't read the book, but I am familiar with raw diets. For the average person it is not a diet I would recommend, because it takes commitment and work to provide a balanced diet over a period of time.

There are premade raw diets consiting of raw meat, and veggies produced in cubes, patties and other such things. For a small dog the cost is perhaps about the same as a high priced kibble.

Raw can also be based on the prey model which consitst basically feed ing the dog raw meaty bones, organs and other such. These diets require small periods of fasting and the bones are fed whole and of course raw.

Properly done these diets work very very well and dogs thrive on them. My 3 dogs have the occasional raw meal consisting of raw pork necks, Beef ribs, Beef liver and beef heart for the dental cleaning eating tendons and bones provides, but as storage space is limited, I could not adequately do a raw diet,

Check out a company called nature's variety, and primal as they carry premade packaged raw diets. They have a lot of good information on their sites about raw diets as well.

[Marley]

Ckranz,
Have you experienced any intestinal problems while feeding occasionally raw? Marley currently eats a combo of Canidae (old formula) and Evo. I would like to supplement by adding an occasional raw meaty bone, which I hear would be great for her teeth.

Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Maddie'sMom]

I'm not Ckranz, but I have had exeprience feeding occasionally raw. I have a German Shepherd who has a sensitive stomach when it came to switching dog foods and such, until she got used to them. She had no problems at all eating occasional RMB (Raw and Meaty Bones). The vet even asked me if I brush her teeth
Maddie, my Cocker Spaniel also had no problems.
My friends Cocker, Mia had funny stools the first two times. That was about it with her.


http://www.rawfeddogs.net/
www.rawranch.com -- currently down, though of course it was my favorite!
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39 several stickies on feeding raw. Each a good read!


I'm jealous you still have to old formula of Canidae... the store I buy food from ran out, and I wasn't aware until we got the new formula -- what a disaster!
I now feed Natures Variety Instinct, and supplement with raw.

[Nettle]

I have fed raw for well over 20 years, wean my pups straight on to raw, no problems, but it does take more commitment than dipping a cup into a sack. I'd never go back to commercial food, but raw isn't for everybody.

I suggest two books:

'Give Your Dog A Bone' by Ian Billinghurst ( a vet)

'Essential Care for Dogs' by Jackie Drakeford and Mark Elliott (Mark Elliott is a vet)

These will answer your questions in a user-friendly manner.

[ckranz]

Ckranz,
Have you experienced any intestinal problems while feeding occasionally raw? Marley currently eats a combo of Canidae (old formula) and Evo. I would like to supplement by adding an occasional raw meaty bone, which I hear would be great for her teeth.

Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

With my dogs no I haven't. As mentioned, both raw and homeprepared diets are a commitment. They take not only money to get everything (it can get expensive) but they take time and dilligence. I honestly believe the time and commitment it takes are the primary reasons few vets recommend either.

[Marley]

Thanks for the advice, links and book referrals. I'm looking forward to supplementing Marley's diet with raw meaty bones.

We will not be going all raw, I have enough trouble ensuring I have a balanced diet

[monib1969]

Hi,

After having ALL my dogs/cats die from cancer and some other diseases at VERY young ages, I decided to research information after purchasing my new puppies. I was determined not have them die at young ages. After doing alot of searching I found that many of the best kennels across the US and those that specifically deal with my breed, GSD's feed their dogs raw diets 100% of the time.

So I researched some more. And found that regular kibble, even the most expensive, like I usually bought, have some very nasty ingredients, some even have the same chemical that's used to make antifreeze and has been a proven carcinogen. No wonder there is an alamring rate of cancer deaths in dogs!!! Kibble has only been around for appx 60 yrs ... so what in the world did dogs eat before kibble? They ate table scraps and human food regularly and were healthy. Kibble is purely by products and the scraps that are considered "not fit for human consumption." So I got to thinking, if I can't eat it why on earth would I want to feed it to my beloved dogs and cats ... oh yes cats too!!!

So the moral of my story is I switched, and even switched my cats too, and I can say WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!! MY 12 and 13 year old cats that usually behaved like Garfield, now behave like little kittens again. One even caught a mouse in my garden!!! Something she never did before, EVER... she always would try to steal my mousers catch, but would never hunt for herself. My dogs are thick and strong, not fat, but lean and solid muscle. Their coats are shiny even when dirty, their teeth clean and tartar free, ears stay clean, no typical dog breath, no dandruff or itchy skin, more energetic, the list goes on and on, and it's really not that hard to maintain or make the switch.

The price per month is comparable to high priced kibble. And a 50lb dog only eats appx 2lb of meat and organ meat per day, and I purchase a dehydrated natural, human grade food called Honest Kitchen that supplies the veggies, fruit and vitamins, all you do is mix it with water. As far as getting meat, I buy chicken on sale, beef bones and I luckily have friends that hunt, so I buy them a tag or two and they get me meat, venison, antelope, turkey and they cut it for me and I can easily fill a chest freezer that way in a season so that helps too and cuts my cost to just the dehydrated veggie mix, which if you don't want to go the raw meat route they also have a mix with dehydrated beef, chicken or turkey in it. If you just want to feed your dog foods that are human grade and not junk food .... I compare it to eating a home cooked meal (honest kitchen) daily vs eating McDonald's everyday (kibble).

Sorry to be so long, but after having switched and reasearching and seeing the amazing night and day difference in my animals, I will NEVER feed my animals anything but raw food diets. I think it's well worth the investment to have healthy animals that live long, prosperous lives with our family.

[zeus'fostermom]

I recently adopted a 100lb Great Pyrenees who has some sort of allergy. In trying to determine the allergy type I elimated all grains, meat and poultry. While I'm still not sure if his allergies are food related I've been doing a lot of research and find that a raw food diet, irrespective of the protien and/or starch source, often addresses allergy issues.

Because my dog is so big I cannot afford a 100% raw food diet. I've been supplementing 1/3rd of his diet with Primal sardine mix raw food. In only a few weeks, he has more energy, stools half the size and his constant ear problems have all but disappeared. I also called Primal and was able to seek advise on my particular needs. They were very helpful.

Raw food requires more food prep and may require working with someone knowledgable in nutrition but it can show terrific benifits.

Happy feeding!

[ckranz]

Monib, can you please let us know all the brands of kibble you have evaluated. While I agree that there are many poor quality kibbles, there are also some very very high quallity good kibbles these days that do not contain artificial preservatives, colors or even remotely questionable ingredients

[Cheetah]

Monib, can you please let us know all the brands of kibble you have evaluated. While I agree that there are many poor quality kibbles, there are also some very very high quallity good kibbles these days that do not contain artificial preservatives, colors or even remotely questionable ingredients

I agree. I'm feeding kibble right now and while the vast majority of them have terrible ingredients, there are some out there that are high quality. All you have to do is know what to look for and what to avoid.

[emilysouthwest]

Agreed, there are a lot of nasty kibble out there. Pretty much everything you find at the grocery store (although I have seen small bags of Newman's Own at Target and Kroger) and at big pet store chains will not be very high quality though you may pay premium prices. You usually have to go to smaller pet supply/food stores to find some of the better brands. And yes, even then you have to know what to look for because brands side by side can be of vastly different quality. And packaging and claims of "natural," "organic," "vegetables," and "vet recommended" can be misleading. Nevertheless, I think that few dog nutritionists would make a blanket statement that all dog kibble is bad for your dog's health.

In fact, I think that if one has not thoroughly researched the raw diet they are feeding their dog, the raw diet actually can be more harmful than low quality dog food. Owners who feed raw need to make sure that their dogs are neither receiving too little or even too much of certain nutrients.

[Bro. Dave, OBB]

I suggest two books:

'Give Your Dog A Bone' by Ian Billinghurst ( a vet)

'Essential Care for Dogs' by Jackie Drakeford and Mark Elliott (Mark Elliott is a vet)

Another very good and easy to read is "Raw Dog Food: Make it easy for you and your dog" by Carina MacDonald.

[mikki]

I go to stores which have healthy petfood. But they are expensive too

I put our animals on Taste of the wild. I have a cat which is 14 or 15 years old. I give her kitten food because she is an outside cat and needs more stuff.

RAW is for experts who do know what they are doing. RAW is also very expensive unless you are a hunter.

My aunt used to feed her dog table scraps. And this dog lived a healthy life as well.
But today in our age look around. Look in books or over the net, how many breeds are having a health problem? Ask the vet, which breed is cancer free or HD free. free of heart mumors? I have met 2 dogs different breeds with cancer. 1 was a little mix breed and 12 years old. She had cancer. The other was a ST. Bernhard. 1 year old and already skin cancer. A Boxer had bone cancer. I think the breed Molosser tent to more Cancer then other breeds.
Our lab has an allergy issue. So he is on benedryl. Our BC has an allergy too but since I changed her diet she is doing much better. Our BC is 7 and our lab is 1.

[Bro. Dave, OBB]

RAW is for experts who do know what they are doing. RAW is also very expensive unless you are a hunter.

While I don't want to start a raw vs kibble vs canned debate, I would like to clarify something relative to the above comment.

First, you'd be surprised at how easy it is to feed raw and know what you are doing at the same time. After all, we humans manage to feed ourselves pretty well without the necessity of being an expert. Like feeding ourselves a balanced diet, it isn't all that hard to do the same for our pets. I'll agree that starting a raw diet plan may seem daunting at first. But once you get started and with the aid of others, you'll soon find out that it isn't that hard at all.

Second, it doesn't have to be as expensive as you think, nor does one need to be a hunter to feed a raw diet successfully. Think of it more like your own diet, only don't cook the meat or cook it "rare". Chicken can be found on sale regularly, as can beef or pork or xxxxx. Feedings are not a project, unless you want them to be. Give your dog a raw chicken leg or quarter. Not much prep work there. Dogs love the cheaper cuts. No need to cook peas or carrots or stringbeans or xxxxx ... And they're not expensive either. By the time you balance meat costs and some veggies and add a little rolled oats or cooked rice, the overall daily costs are a lot less than you'd realize.

I just looked at Taste of the Wild at some online vendors. I can feed my ESS for less $$$ per day on a good healthy homemade raw diet than I can feed him daily with Taste of the Wild. I've got nothing against TotW, as a matter of fact their product ingredients look pretty good. I certainly wouldn't try to dissuade you from feeding it. My only point is that feeding raw needn't be as difficult or as expensive as many people believe. But I'm sure that if given half a chance I could make Maxx's meals a real expensive chore.

But expensive is also relative, I guess. But to me, being able to feed Maxx for 2 or three days for the cost of a Big Mac Meal isn't what I'd call expensive.

I have no quarrel with those who wish to feed otherwise. We all are entitled to and hold our own feeding preferences. But I do take issue with some of the myths that are bandied about relative to feeding a raw food diet.