Hip scores?

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ZaraD
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Hip scores?

Post by ZaraD » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:17 am

Hi all

Me and my mom have decided that at some point we would like a second dog in the future (like 2yrs from now) and if been observing which dogs Sampson likes , and we met a rough collie and he didn't like her. He has four best friends all girls ,three golden retrievers and one lurcher, he's obsessed with the Goldens so as the Golden was a breed we were thinking of getting we decided on the Golden as he loves them and he's met a few boys as well wasn't over the top with them but playful. Anyway my question is health related. Iv been looking at some breeders to make a list for when we're ready and most of the hip scores from showline breeders are 15 or 17 total even working lines have similar results but we want a showline, anyway my neighbor said you should only look for hip scores that are below 11 total , so I contacted the breed club who said that's nonsense and that the breed average is 19 as long as there below that you'll be fine.

I just want to know what your thoughts are, as I have found some I really like and they do all the other tests recommended for the breed and these are low it's just the hip scores .

JudyN
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Location: Dorset, UK
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Re: Hip scores?

Post by JudyN » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:44 am

Interesting - I've never looked into hip scoring before but I can see a lot of room for confusion. According to this link https://www.bva.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Con ... s_2012.pdf the mean hip score for GRs is 18, but the median is 12, so this may well be where the confusion arises.

The mean is calculated by adding up all the scores for dogs tested and dividing by the number of dogs. The median is the point that half the dogs come above and half below - so if 11 dogs are tested, the median score will be that of dog 6. The reason for the difference is that hip scores are not distributed evenly - there are no dogs scoring less than 0, but a few dogs scoring very high, up to 106, which makes the mean look so high - there are hardly any dogs with perfect hip joints but a lot with terrible ones.

Based on that, what you want is not a dog with a better score than the mean, but a dog that is better than the average dog. On that basis, I'd go with your neighbour's suggestion and not the breed club, who may well not understand the difference between means and medians. But I'd also qualify tht my saying that I don't know if the statistics in the link I gave are from working or show GRs or both, and I dare say a show GR will tend to have less good hips than a working line.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

ZaraD
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Hip scores?

Post by ZaraD » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:01 am

Thanks Judy interesting, iv just been recommended a breeder by my neighbor https://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/28544 looks good and he said she plays a CD when there young and that her pups are know for there confidence and lovely nature's :D

ZaraD
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Hip scores?

Post by ZaraD » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:51 am

Thought I would post the reply I got from the golden retriever club incase it might be of interest.

"There is a balance to be struck when breeding, taking into consideration all the attributes pf the parents, not just hip scores. There is no guarantee that low scoring parents will always produce low scoring offspring. Mother nature simply doesn't work like that!
A dog should also have an in date eye certificate, and a good elbow score in order to be bred from. It's of no use breeding from a dog with a hip score of 5 if it has cataracts and elbow dysplacia!
There is a genetic test for PRA, and one for Ichthyosis which might also have been undertaken, and should taken into consideration in making breeding selections.
Genetic diversity must be maintained. Discarding all dogs from the gene pool with a hip score of 11 or more would, in my opinion at least, risk driving the breed into a genetic bottleneck where any other genetic defects might not only manifest themselves, but be difficult to eradicate
You haven't mentioned why your neighbour feels a such a very low hip score should be sought, nor what their qualifications to hold such an opinion are.
As a breeder, and knowing other breeders I would feel that somewhat extreme. A hip score well under the breed average is desirable, but not necessarily the be all and end all when breeding from a dog.
The Golden Retriever Club"

JudyN
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Re: Hip scores?

Post by JudyN » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 am

They make some good points there - thank you for sharing that.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

ZaraD
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Hip scores?

Post by ZaraD » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:07 am

JudyN wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 am
They make some good points there - thank you for sharing that.
Your welcome judy :D

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