Is it possible in the UK?

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ZaraD
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Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:52 am

Ok so had a phone call late last night from my friend who's looking for a GSD in the UK. Other than being told that GSD are not supposed to have a straight topline and that there supposed to have a slight slope and that she should look at showlines as not all are bad and the same person told her that long coats are prone to epilepsy and that breeders don't test and she should avoid long coats, So this has confused her as she's always been told that showlines in the UK are unhealthy and have bad structure. So my question as I promised last night I would ask is , is it possible to find a healthy
, Health tested , Well structured and stable temperament GSD in the UK or is it very hard to find one? ( And I'm talking about show and working lines)

As this is health and structure repeated question I thought I'd post here.if she has to look at another breed she will but she wants to get an awnser to this subject before taking them off her list. She will only say no to the GSD if you think it will be a very hard search to find what I asked above or if it's impossible. Please be honest.

Thank you in advance.
P.s her other breed she likes if the GSD is a no will be an English pointer which obviously has better structure and is healthier than a GSD. :D

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:07 am

I really , really want to help her and I hate seeing her stress like this. I'm not an expert on GSD or structure so that's why I thought it would be a good idea to ask for help on here :)

JudyN
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by JudyN » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:12 am

There's been so much discussion on GSDs on the forum available through the search facility. I suggest you have a read through these threads: https://positively.com/forum/search.php?keywords=gsd
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:17 am

JudyN wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:12 am
There's been so much discussion on GSDs on the forum available through the search facility. I suggest you have a read through these threads: https://positively.com/forum/search.php?keywords=gsd
I read most before posting but on here members like Nettle and Erica say that the Showlines have bad structure and are deformed which is how I feel and why my friend was going to avoid showlines but then she was told by someone else that GSD are a supposed to have a slight slope?

And I read on here Nettle saying that she's not seen a healthy GSD in a long time.

I didn't want to give her my advice incase I'm wrong but my advice would have been to say no to the GSD for now until hopefully the breed improves.

Lotsaquestions
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:17 am

Honestly the sloping back excuses sounds similar to the 'bulldogs have face folds to drip away the blood' excuse about their often full of infection face folds. If you look back at the historical pictures of working dogs before victorian eugenics got involved you'll see German Shepherds with straight, well formed backs. You'll also see bull fighting dogs as muscley fighters with normal but recognisably bulldog faces, a far cry from the British Bulldog we see today who can sometimes barely walk right.

If straight back GSD's were so unhealthy, police departments around the world wouldn't use them. I've yet to see a sloped back KC type GSD next to a police officer.

Problem is GSD's are popular, which always means they are over bred and often badly. If your friend is really worried about the health issues, perhaps she could look at the Malinois or the Belgian Sheepdog? I think the Malinois is more drivey but, correct my if I'm wrong, I think the Belgian is very similar to the GSD? There is also the Shiloh Shepherd, if they exist in the UK. Crossbred with Malamutes to help with the hips.
Last edited by Lotsaquestions on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:32 am

Lotsaquestions wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:17 am
Honestly the sloping back excuses sounds similar to the 'bulldogs have face folds to drip away the blood' excuse about their often full of infection face folds. If you look back at the historical pictures of working dogs before victorian eugenics got involved you'll see German Shepherds with straight, well formed backs. You'll also see bull fighting dogs as muscley fighters with normal but recognisably bulldog faces, a far cry from the British Bulldog we see today who can sometimes barely walk right.

If straight back GSD's were so unhealthy, police departments around the world wouldn't use them. I've yet to see a sloped back KC type GSD next to a police officer.

Problem is GSD's are popular, which always means they are over bred and often badly. If your friend is really worried about the health issues, perhaps she could look at the Malinois or the Belgian Sheepdog? I think the Malinois is more drivey but, correct my if I'm wrong, I think the Belgian is very similar to the GSD?
I found a post on here were Erica said most of the well bred , good structure GSD come from working lines which are not for a newbie. She said she once she would look at Belgian shepherd and working lines when she's more experienced. So I think she would be best getting another breed first and then look at her GSD or even a Belgian shepherd as second dog.

Iv told her to still avoid the Showlines and ignore people excuses. As far as I knew GSD structure should be similar to a Belgian so clearly Belgian don't have sloped backs.

And the police only use working lines. And I know a few Belgian shepherd people have told her there not for first time owners. So I'll see what she says but it could be a pointer for her first dog.

Lotsaquestions do you know anything about setters mainly Irish and Borden setters? As I know she likes them.

Lotsaquestions
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:36 am

I've met a gazillion Irish Setters, but never a Gorden.

The Setters I've know have been puppies / teens (omg they are LIVELY!), adults (gorgeous, sweet tempered but still active), and oldies (food please then strokes). Lovely dogs, through and through, but they NEED their exercise and lots of it. Not sure about trainability, but all the adult ones I've seen have been dependable.

However - I've also met English Setters who have been stuck on a longline because apparently Setters have a tendancy to 'just go'. I've not seen an Irish stuck on a longline as an adult, so can't say if they are similar.
Last edited by Lotsaquestions on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:37 am

Before I tell her I'll look at the Shiloh to see if there are any in the UK.

I know she likes the Belgian sheepdog https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/servic ... ay.aspx?id

I meant Gordon setter. Auto correct can be annoying

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:41 am

Just done a quick search seems Shiloh shepherds are very rare even in the US were they originated

Lotsaquestions
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:22 am

That's a shame, they look lovely.

What about the GSD is she attracted to? I bet there are other large breeds with similar characteristics who are healthier / a little less hard to bring up.

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 am

I'll do another post in breed questions to tell you what she likes about the shepherd. :D thank you for helping her :D

Lotsaquestions
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 am

No problem, I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to breeds and go on lots of group walks / shows / am the annoying chatty person learning about their dogs while they frolic with mine. Normally people humour me a fair amount, and most are all too happy to talk about their bad points. :lol:

I know you yourself are after a Golden, but I must say they are usually the most annoying that I meet (with Labs). Sometimes a bit too friendly, especially when they sniff out your treat bag. :lol: Its not so bad if they just sniff, but lots also mouth and jump up, at which point Merlin will come over to 'inspect' that everything is ok and I have to reassure him that I'm not being physically assaulted by a lovely floppy teenage golden.

ZaraD
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by ZaraD » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:42 am

Lotsaquestions wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 am
No problem, I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to breeds and go on lots of group walks / shows / am the annoying chatty person learning about their dogs while they frolic with mine. Normally people humour me a fair amount, and most are all too happy to talk about their bad points. :lol:

I know you yourself are after a Golden, but I must say they are usually the most annoying that I meet (with Labs). Sometimes a bit too friendly, especially when they sniff out your treat bag. :lol: Its not so bad if they just sniff, but lots also mouth and jump up, at which point Merlin will come over to 'inspect' that everything is ok and I have to reassure him that I'm not being physically assaulted by a lovely floppy teenage golden.
:lol: my friends with me and she just said well done Merlin checking on mommy :D that's why my friend is not a fan of retrievers or dogs who love everyone. I'd still love a golden but my mom prefers rough cookies which is what were getting. But I love cookies to

Lotsaquestions
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Re: Is it possible in the UK?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:57 am

I also love cookies! And also Collies :lol:

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