Reteaching eating...

[dobiemuse]

I just took on my cousin's dog after he recently passed away. She is an Alaskan Malemute (4 yrs old) and very overweight. Right now she possibly has a bladder infection (will know for sure on mon when we go to the vet) and has been very stressed out with all the changes like leaving her "brother" who I could not take (and is with another family member) and moving to my house with 3 other dogs. The problem is that I believe she is addicted to sugar.... and other junk foods. Please do not criticize my cousin as I do believe that he wasn't feeling well for a long time and he just spoiled her in the process. I just want to deal with the current problem. I have not been able to get her to eat properly and have even tried mixing the food with ice cream (one of her absolute favorite foods) as well as some cheese popcorn. Understand I am only using these foods to try to transition her to proper eating. She isn't taking to this and hopefully it will help more after we see the vet and get her problem solved. She has ignored other foods like homemade liver treats, beef, babyfood, and other stuff that usually works with most dogs I've had to transition.

I'm just looking for other suggestions I can try as she recovers.

FYI... she is separated from the rest as the Weim (11 yrs, male) Dobie (9 months, male) and Sheltie (7 yrs, female) also need time to adjust. She is also separated because she is intact and my dobie is also (due to a contract with the breeder) in case it isn't a bladder infection and is in a different heat cycle due to the stress. No puppies.. no thanks. The dobie is plenty.

[Nettle]

Steady on there!

Grief reduces appetite.

Infection reduces appetite.

Stress reduces appetite.

And the dog is fat.

So - offer small amounts of good quality food twice a day, and when she is eating those, add more, but not too much more as she needs her weight down. If she does not want to eat, pick the bowl up and take it away. Don't bother adding junk to make her eat.

Is she secure where she is being fed, or is she nervous that the other dogs might take her food? She should be fed in a safe place and a quiet atmosphere.

Exercise her well. That will help with the fat and the appetite. If she is waaay overweight, start the exercise off gently and increase as she gets fitter.

[dobiemuse]

I do understand that those things reduce appetite. That is why I listed them as reasons.

I don't like the way her hips move so I want to wait a bit before I exercise her in any real way. I want the vet to check that out first so I'm not doing more damage.

I usually give the food they are used to in small quantities in getting them used to eating other things. I'm sorry I thought I was clear. I wasn't worried about immediate eating, but when her immediate health problem was resolved. Thought there might be some things people had tried and I hadn't thought of. As I said... my old standbys weren't working at the moment. I am aware it might work later, but just wanted to see what others have tried.

And yes... as I stated, she is separate from the others right now.

[ckranz]

How to exercise without straining hips or joints....swim therapy. Very useful for grossly overwieght dogs, dog with hip and joint problems, dog that for any reason should not be putting weight on their feet.

Food ideas,
Orijen 6 fish Great food and very few dogs refuse it.

Instinct as some novelty formulas: Rabbit, Duck....they may be more appetizing.

Raw meat....get some pork necks, Ox Tails, Leg quarters or other reasonably inexpensive cuts of meat. Freeze for storage, thaw prior to serving (bone and all).

Tripe....Raw frozen would be best, but you can also get canned.

Other Ideas:
Fasting, All the sugar she has had in the past is somewhat toxic (not in a lethal sort of way but the toxins building in the body sort of way).

Fasting process:
2 days before: Feed a light simple diet consisting of a small amount of lean meat a few non-grain vegtables (broccoli and carrots would be my choices) and plain oatmeal.

1-2 days of fasting provide the following:
Water...prurified or filtered, do not use tap water
Vegtable Juices
Vegtable broth

Slowly start introducing healthy food (raw or steamed veggies, yogurt (plain no sugar) or raw milk back in after a couple of days and over a 2 day period then add meat or your regular food.

A fast can go longer, but then slow back the ending phase for 1 day of transision per 2 days of fasting.

To help her reduce weight, reduce to about 1/2 the suggested seving of the food you are using (In think you mentioned Instinct on another thread)

[dobiemuse]

How to exercise without straining hips or joints....swim therapy. Very useful for grossly overwieght dogs, dog with hip and joint problems, dog that for any reason should not be putting weight on their feet.

No swim areas for dogs in this area. Got good news, tho... her hips look good so small exercise is a go. I guess her gait was off due to the pain and probably due to weight.

Food ideas,
Orijen 6 fish Great food and very few dogs refuse it.

Instinct as some novelty formulas: Rabbit, Duck....they may be more appetizing.

Raw meat....get some pork necks, Ox Tails, Leg quarters or other reasonably inexpensive cuts of meat. Freeze for storage, thaw prior to serving (bone and all).

Tripe....Raw frozen would be best, but you can also get canned.

Don't have Orijen here, but she has been refusing all that is offered except for a couple of chicken strips (dried like jerky). Can't even get her to eat steak (hey, trying it out!)

My vet gave me an interesting thing I will try. He said that when he has a wild goose, the dogs and even his cats just beg for the food. They just know it is wild meat. So, I will try some small bits of that if I can find it.

He also said that he thinks it is a combo of bladder infection (light one) and her in a form of heat due to the extreme stress she has been under. So, she may not eat well for at least another week just due to these problems.

Other Ideas:
Fasting, All the sugar she has had in the past is somewhat toxic (not in a lethal sort of way but the toxins building in the body sort of way).

I have a problem with fasting animals for a long (and even short) period of time when their diet has been so bad. I agree that the sugar and other bad diet foods she has had is very toxic for her. If you fast too quickly (or too much), there can be a toxin build-up (from the released toxins in the fat) and the elimination organs have a hard time keeping up. Ketosis is but one concern I'm currently having with her self-imposed fast. My vet agrees and would also like to see her eat at least small amounts.

...oh, and just a little FYI... None of the dogs get tap water, it is filtered. They do seem to drink more of it when it is filtered.

So, has anyone tried wild meat with success?

I've always had food motivated dogs, so this is a bit new to me.

[Nettle]

My dogs are mostly fed on wild meat, but then I do not have the problems with them that you have with your new dog, so I don't know if this information is helpful or not.

They certainly do well on it.

[Mollysmom]

your dog will not starve itself. cut the sugary foods out completely, you don't have to fast her if you're against it, but by "weaning" her into good food you're not making any real progress.

If she doesn't eat the first day, she will the second, let her come to it on her own terms...
Don't allow her to beg, that means NO ONE feeds her from their plates period. Huskies and Malamutes tend to have skin and coat problems so a healthy protein rich diet is what she needs, even if she doesn't want it.

and I've fed wild game (venison) in the past, either freeze it or cook it thoroughly to eliminate any parasites and if you're feeding bird make sure there are no bones, they splinter and can cause damage.

[dobiemuse]

My dogs are mostly fed on wild meat, but then I do not have the problems with them that you have with your new dog, so I don't know if this information is helpful or not.

Thanks for the answer. It looks like it is certainly worth a try!

I'm "game" for any other suggestions in case this one fails as well...

Oh, forgot to add.... our vet thinks that she is only 20 pounds overweight. I was thinking almost 30. Ten pounds makes a BIG difference for a dog so I'm glad I was wrong. For humans I think the last 10 is only total frustration.

[dobiemuse]

your dog will not starve itself. cut the sugary foods out completely, you don't have to fast her if you're against it, but by "weaning" her into good food you're not making any real progress.

If she doesn't eat the first day, she will the second, let her come to it on her own terms...
Don't allow her to beg, that means NO ONE feeds her from their plates period. Huskies and Malamutes tend to have skin and coat problems so a healthy protein rich diet is what she needs, even if she doesn't want it.

and I've fed wild game (venison) in the past, either freeze it or cook it thoroughly to eliminate any parasites and if you're feeding bird make sure there are no bones, they splinter and can cause damage.

I'm not worried just yet, but with the extreme stress I want to be prepared if and when I do have to worry. I've always been able to wean a dog with only giving the old bad food for a day or possibly two. Then I go to my old standbys which are much healthier. So, don't worry, I wasn't going to wean them for a long period of time. I do that because it is familiar and there is so much new around. Since she hasn't been really eating, I don't think I will need to wean her when she starts eating again.

I was also thinking of venison or even buffalo since I know I can get that here. Would like to try the wild bird, tho.

I've also fed raw chicken wings to dogs with the bones before. Only raw. If cooked, the splinter.

Thanks for the answer.

[Mollysmom]

I really dislike being proven wrong, I know about the raw/cooked chicken bone and totally gave half advice. Sorry

brat.

nah but really, I'm glad you've got a handle on things. I've heard buffalo is brilliant as it's so lean.
Venison has been a standby my whole life, I come from a hunting family, nothing holds over a hound like an elk knee....
we've also fed bear... (mmm nothing says fall like bear stew...)

fudge... now I'm getting hungry.

I hope things go well with your new addition, Please post pics in the "General" forums. and keep us updated!

[dobiemuse]

brat.

Who? Me?

nah but really, I'm glad you've got a handle on things. I've heard buffalo is brilliant as it's so lean.
Venison has been a standby my whole life, I come from a hunting family, nothing holds over a hound like an elk knee....
we've also fed bear... (mmm nothing says fall like bear stew...)

A handle? :wipe away tear: :"sigh": Hm... the new dog had only one qualification I would have accepted to make it an easy transition as a 4th dog at the present time. So, that means I will be juggling dogs until I get them all accepted. So far, the only one I am confident (when she is better) that will work well with her is the dobie. The others will be harder and will take more time. Ah... stress... wouldn't know life without it.

btw... poor pooh bear...

I hope things go well with your new addition, Please post pics in the "General" forums. and keep us updated!

Thanks for the wishes. Will need it. Piccys may come slowly.

Send hungry for good food vibes, please.

[dobiemuse]

Small update...

She has taken to eating a little bit each night of her dog food. Perhaps the antibiotics have taken hold and made her a bit hungry.

My vet is happy.

She has lost some weight due to the light food intake and some squirrel chasing (the squirrels here are smart and know which one to tease and which one won't bother them in the least... so they are safe). Can't walk her right now because she is in full heat and we have a lot of unaltered males in the neighborhood.

She has been grouchy (can't really blame her) so no direct contact for the others and especially the intact pup.

[Mollysmom]

Yay! I'm glad she's making progress. She might gain a bit more of an appetite towards the end of/ or at the end of her season, ::crossing fingers::

[Nettle]

Ah, that essential information that comes in the end

Bitches often lose their appetites when on heat.

[dobiemuse]

I did realize that, but I was worried with all the changes, she'd really refuse... plus she wasn't supposed to go in heat at this time! Poor baby, her infection must have interfered with her last heat cycle.

Quick question... does their aggressiveness quickly subside after heat? I don't usually deal with adult females in heat. The only other adult female I had that was unaltered didn't come to me in heat and I had her altered soon after. I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no puppies.. and I don't want to know!