Long-term stress remedies

[JudyN]

As Jasper has occasional stressy moments in the house (like not wanting me to shift off the sofa when he's lying in front of it), and I'm at a loss to work out what's behind some of these, I'm wondering if he would benefit from some sort of long-term stress remedy, such as scullcap & valerian. I have heard, though, that valerian, being a sedative, can make a dog more grumpy.

Any thoughts on whether I should go down this path, please, and what remedies are worth trying? I tried Zylkene in the past but he was going through a really funny stage then (quite unresponsive and apathetic) and I'm not sure if the Zylkene was part of that, but it would make me wary of trying it again. I'm dubious about homeopathy & flower remedies too, but that's not to say I wouldn't try them. Obviously I don't want to change his personality (well OK I do, but only the bad bits of his personality ), I just want him to not have these anxious moments - or at least not to exhibit his anxiety by threatening to get his teeth out

I'm also wondering if I should leave starting anything till after Xmas - OH is on holiday till January now, my mum will be coming to stay over Xmas, so our usual routine will be out the window and I couldn't judge the effects of anything I give him. On the other hand, I've read that some remedies can take 4 weeks to kick in, so I wouldn't be looking for any changes till the new year anyway.

[master2]

hi JudyN

I don't know about remedies but my aunties GSD use to not like her getting of the sofa either . she taught them the move command and once they moved she treated them either with food or a tennis ball.

im still in a dilemma?

wish you luck

[JudyN]

Thanks master2 - it's good to know Jasper isn't the only dog who does this!

I'm encouraging him to go to his bed more, and if he does settle down in front of the sofa, I'll try asking him to move (preferably while he's still relaxed) - but he has a very suspicious mind, so knowing him when I asked him to move he'd immediately tense up because he knows what I'm planning to do

[master2]

Hi JudyN

funny enough the older GSD of my aunties cottoned on to what my auntie was up to so when she said move Cleo would move onto my auntie and lye on her very funny to watch.

[JudyN]

[Nettle]

Dorwest have an advice line - might be worth asking them.

[mansbestfriend]

Hi Judy. My thoughts - Maybe this has nothing whatsoever to do with Jasper, but Max the foster greyhound is also a stressy fellow, although it's sometimes hard to tell just by looking. When (for whatever reason) he seems a bit lost about exactly what he should be doing (general house rules usually), he gets a bit stressy over stuff, and benefits from some gentle but clear instructions about what I want him to do, and then he's treated when he chooses to cooperate. Or if he gets a bit guardy about toys or food, pack away all sight and smell of toys or food, or whatever it is I guess he might be guarding (lots of guessing ).

Sometimes he gets a bit 'iffy' (with Kelly) before mealtime, so I try make sure his meal time is on time every time. Max the GH is generally much harder to read than my own dog Kelly, so when he displays an obvious dog behaviour, it's for a specific reason. Is there anything at all that you can think of that is a common denominator to Jasper's stressy episodes (EG; time of day, before/after meals, types of food eaten, before/after walks or activity, before/after sleep, chemical or cooking smells or preparation smells, barbeques or parties, perfume, noises like fireworks/wind in the trees/thunder/rain/trains/buses/aeroplanes/rubbish collection/people talking in the street/etc.etc.etc.)? Maybe keep a diary of every stressy episode and record everything that you think may be relevent.

It'd be so much easier if dogs could talk, with words, in English . Knowing any specific trigger/s would be really helpful but (Tellington) TTouch a few times a week, if the dog accepts it easily, can be generally very calming, and an added bonus is that it's a good way to find sore/sensitive spots (ears, eyes, mouth, neck, body, shoulders/hips, legs, joints, paws, tail, whatever). If your dog is also dog reactive, TTouch (*as part of a plan*) may HELP to lower stress levels. DON'T do TTouch if it makes the dog more aroused, rather than more calm and relaxed, even sleepy.

Try to calmly redirect jasper (calmly but WITH PURPOSE and with consistency) to something you prefer, as soon as you think "something's amiss with Jasper", and treat/praise/reward Jasper for calm cooperation, maybe a calm play session outside, or practise some cues, or go for a 5 minute walk on-leash? Knowing a specific trigger or series of triggers would be great, but sometimes we may never know, exactly. Cheers.

[JudyN]

Max the GH is generally much harder to read than my own dog Kelly, so when he displays an obvious dog behaviour, it's for a specific reason.

Yes, Jasper can be the same. I still sometimes can't tell his 'I need a cuddle'' language (lying flat on the floor whining persistently) from his 'It's teatime, surely' language (lying flat on the floor whining persistently) from his 'I need to go for a walk' language (lying flat on the floor whining persistently)

Is there anything at all that you can think of that is a common denominator to Jasper's stressy episodes

The first 'Don't get out of bed, there's a monster out there' snark was after he'd heard a scary noise outside. The first 'Don't get off the sofa' moment was after I'd heard the cat scratching wallpaper upstairs and leapt up as if there was a monster outside the room...But the subsequent times... sometimes I can think of a stressful event some time earlier, sometimes there's nothing. Of course, he may be able to hear distant monsters that we can't

Try to calmly redirect jasper (calmly but WITH PURPOSE and with consistency) to something you prefer, as soon as you think "something's amiss with Jasper", and treat/praise/reward Jasper for calm cooperation, maybe a calm play session outside, or practise some cues, or go for a 5 minute walk on-leash?

This is the difficulty - spotting the 'something amiss' before he gets to the point where whatever I suggest may be fun for us to do is too scary because it means me getting off the sofa But I do need to work on something like 'Let's get a sausage from the kitchen'.

Nettle, I think I will phone Dorwest. But it's difficult to know whether I should be treating him as if he has a low level of anxiety all the time which means he goes over threshold easily, when most of the time he looks like your typical laid-back lurcher. And how could anyone get a feel for Jasper's unique personality and 'special needs' from a short phone call?

[Nettle]

Yes indeed, JudyN, I so agree but Dorwest could tell you better than I which if any of their products would be suitable for low-level anxiety over a long term. Short-term - if it works, it was anxiety. But it would be such a help to you if the underlying causes came to light, and at present I don't think there is much you haven't analysed. He's a lucky dog that you are still seeking to help him.

[JudyN]

He's a lucky dog that you are still seeking to help him.

I do it for my benefit as much as his

Dorwest recommended their Scullcap & Valerian tablets - for his weight he'd need 7-14 tablets a day They suggested starting on 14 to help it build up in his system, then taper off, but I'm tempted to start on 7, build up to 14, and then start reducing, just in case it has any side effects, particularly as lurchers metabolise things differently to other dogs.

I'm trying not to have fantasies about having a changed dog who I can cuddle with on the sofa, drag around my his collar, and leave overnight in the care of young children who can safely feed him by hand, dress him up in their clothes, and then ride around on him like a pony....

[Nettle]

I think that is very wise re. the dosage, JudyN, and what I would do myself. My 44lb dog gets 2 pills a day in firework season, and a shot of the liquid at dusk. However, I did find Bach Rock Rose very useful for unexpected *bangs*.

[Sanna]

Only just saw this, have you started him on Skullcap&Valerian yet Judy? I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

I've had P on them for a couple of months now, tho he's not nervy like good ol' Jasper but his overexcitability means he 'boils over' very easily and then gets very stressy (=mouthy and overaroused)- it's hard for him to calm down and he goes over threshold very quickly still.. As far as I was told they take 4-6 weeks to fully take effect, however I'm still trying figure out the best dosage for him.

P needs 10-20 tablets a day thankfully he likes them and picks them out of his bowl to eat first I started him on 10 a day (half morning, half in the evening) but didn't see much of a change, I've upped it to 14 a day for the last 2 weeks and he does seem a little more relaxed in general and also calms down much quicker and is able to be more responsive when he has a 'moment', so I think they may be helping him slightly? But it's a very subtle change and could also be down to other factors I suppose. I will keep him on them for a little longer to see, and I may need to experiment a bit more to find the perfect dosage for him (apparently for most it takes a bit of trial and error to get this right I'm told).

[JudyN]

Hi Sanna,

I started him just before Xmas, but we're still only on 8 a day - I'm upping him to 9 a day tomorrow. Over Xmas & New Year, of course, things are all a bit different, even just having OH at home all the time, and there's been a fair few fireworks around, so I've not been in a hurry to up the dose or look for any change. He's seemed quite relaxed over the past few days but I couldn't say it's not 'normal for him'. The difficulty is that we manage him to avoid triggers, so will only notice a change (or lack of it) when we get something wrong.

He did have one Cujo moment when he was destroying a carrier bag that had been in the freezer alongside his raw food and presumably taken up the smell - OH asked him to leave it, then went to stroke him, thinking it was just a normal bag, and got growled, barked and snarked at. But I'm not really expecting S&V to change him that much

As J won't take the tablets straight (they can be hidden in his morning mince but not so easily in a carcasse), I've been grinding up 4 days' worth, blending them with a tin of sardines, and forming them into 4 'chill pills' which I keep in the freezer - I checked with Dorwest that grinding and freezing is OK.

I'll let you know if I notice any clear change - do keep us updated with Precious's progress too!

[minkee]

As J won't take the tablets straight (they can be hidden in his morning mince but not so easily in a carcasse), I've been grinding up 4 days' worth, blending them with a tin of sardines, and forming them into 4 'chill pills' which I keep in the freezer - I checked with Dorwest that grinding and freezing is OK.

This is a brilliant idea! I think I will do this with Breeze's Garlic and with some S&V too

[JudyN]

I've been gobsmacked by how good he's been at the vet's this last week. A year ago, he would react strongly if the vet even tried to touch him. A few months ago he had improved, but I needed to wrap his lead close to his collar round the table leg, and he would shake if the vet touched him. When he first saw the vet on Thursday after getting a bad cut, the next day when he had it stitched under anaesthetic, and today when he went for a check-up, he was neither aggressive or shaking. He wasn't happy, obviously - I still had the lead round the table leg and he wasn't taking his new favourite treat, dried banana, but the vet was in front of him leaning over him and he coped

It might not be the s&v at all, of course - maybe he'd have improved anyway. But I've been pleasantly surprised (of course, we still have the stitch removal to undergo....).