So hungry it's driving him to distraction

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delladooo
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So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:36 pm

Evening, I posted this on a group I'm part of on facebook too but was wondering if you also have any ideas / solutions.

Laufey's been on raw for 2 weeks now and the feeding itself is going brilliantly, however we have one rather problematic issue - he's starving :shock: or at least he'd have you think he is. I worked out he should be on about 250g a day at 11 months old and in two meals, however that lasted two days because he was a nightmare. He's on around 350g a day at the minute and has definitely put some weight on. He's at the end of a course of steroids for his incessant itching which seems to have helped with that but obviously not helping the hunger.

The reason it's an issue is because he still won't pee in the garden so we're out many times a day and we don't take treats every time but, treats or not, he's becoming unbearable on road walks because he's on a constant search for food. I know he's food orientated but it is beyond ridiculous. His nose is glued to the floor, he's pulling more than he has since I taught him to walk on a loose lead and god forbid he gets hold of something because there is no way you're seeing it again. Annoyance aside, it's very worrying because the open end of our road is full of takeaways (kebabs, indian, chinese, you name it and it's there) as well as sweetie shops and people drop absolutely everything which sort of defeats the purpose of wanting him on a raw diet AND there's been reports of poisonings near us which makes me very wary.

In an attempt to combat the issue, we've obviously upped his food, tried carrot / broccoli / cabbage as a filling agent, kong (didn't last long but wasn't frozen). I'm certain the fireworks aren't helping and nor is the fact that my timetable at uni keeps changing at the minute but not enough to justify his actions. Watching him you would think he was never fed as he tries to scavenge for everything possible and, whilst he's always done it to some extent, expects something every time you go in the kitchen.

HELP :shock:

JudyN
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by JudyN » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:50 am

Would you be able to give him a big meaty bone? Then he could chomp away for hours without consuming too many calories.
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Sweetie's Human
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Sweetie's Human » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:45 am

Do try freezing his kongs so they last longer but he only gets the same amount of calories out of them. We have collected three now and have them on rotation in the freezer. And Judy's idea of a meaty bone is great. We also freeze these, but we live in a hot climate. Also, rather than bulking up his meals with grated carrot, perhaps just the carrot itself (halved but not grated) as a supplementary 'meal'. It might keep him occupied longer and he'll think he's gotten something special.

I'm going to call out his pugginess again on this one (although I do think the steroids would be playing a part too, for sure). They are bottomless pits :roll: . We have a giggle when SweetiePug begs straight after her dinner and someone will say "she can't still be hungry", to which I always respond "she's not hungry, she's greedy - it's different" :lol:

How much does he weigh? Or how much should he end up weighing if he's still growing? My understanding is that you'd feed a greater amount, by weight, of raw food than you would kibble, because of the moisture content. I don't think 350g of raw sounds excessive if he's energetic and still growing. But then you are best placed to know if he has porked up too much.

Maybe see how he is in the weeks following the end of the course of steroids and reassess it then. You may also find his skin issues clearing up now that he's raw fed.

delladooo
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:32 am

JudyN wrote:Would you be able to give him a big meaty bone? Then he could chomp away for hours without consuming too many calories.
JudyN wrote:Would you be able to give him a big meaty bone? Then he could chomp away for hours without consuming too many calories.
I hadn't really thought about that! Possibly whilst we're in but definitely not while we're out. Knowing him he'd try to swallow it whole.
Sweetie's Human wrote:Do try freezing his kongs so they last longer but he only gets the same amount of calories out of them. We have collected three now and have them on rotation in the freezer.
We currently have two; a puppy one and a classic one. I might try freezing the puppy one first because he's never had it frozen before. Although his boneless breakfast was partially frozen and lasted slightly longer than thawed.
rather than bulking up his meals with grated carrot, perhaps just the carrot itself (halved but not grated) as a supplementary 'meal'. It might keep him occupied longer and he'll think he's gotten something special.
Sorry, I meant whole carrot just for him to munch on. He doesn't get veg as part of his diet, just something to occupy him because he loves it. It doesn't tend to last all that long in our house though. Some days he gets two carrots and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I'm going to call out his pugginess again on this one (although I do think the steroids would be playing a part too, for sure). They are bottomless pits :roll: . We have a giggle when SweetiePug begs straight after her dinner and someone will say "she can't still be hungry", to which I always respond "she's not hungry, she's greedy - it's different" :lol:
Oh he is definitely greedy! You'd think from the way he acts that he was so hard done to but he eats better than the rest of us combined :roll:

How much does he weigh? Or how much should he end up weighing if he's still growing? My understanding is that you'd feed a greater amount, by weight, of raw food than you would kibble, because of the moisture content. I don't think 350g of raw sounds excessive if he's energetic and still growing. But then you are best placed to know if he has porked up too much.
\
I'm not 100% on his weight at the minute but it's about 8kg. Just before switching he'd lost some weight as he wasn't eating as much kibble for a while, it was very odd when he really is that food motivated that I could use his kibble as treats because it's still food. He's not got too much bigger but enough that it absolutely cannot become a trend. Although, he's not been as active recently with the awful weather, the dark and my timetable it's been more on lead walks instead of off lead running. My timetable changes again next week though and it looks like it's going to be better. An awful day yesterday meant I was out 8.30 - 7 and it's just not feasible for mum to give him long walks when she gets in from work and has other things to do too.
Maybe see how he is in the weeks following the end of the course of steroids and reassess it then. You may also find his skin issues clearing up now that he's raw fed.
I hope so! I changed kibble multiple times without effect but I'm hopeful raw can help or I can find something not chemical to help him if it's going to be a long term issue.

JudyN
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by JudyN » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:58 am

Although it sounds like the switch has made him scroungier (is that a word?), he must be strongly reinforced by the fact that the streets are littered with delicious (to him) food, so it has become a habit. In fact this might be more of a factor than his general pigginess. So another strategy would be to change walks to places he won't find food... I'm sure you've thought of this and would do it if you could, but thought I'd just throw it in anyway.
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delladooo
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:09 am

JudyN wrote:Although it sounds like the switch has made him scroungier (is that a word?), he must be strongly reinforced by the fact that the streets are littered with delicious (to him) food, so it has become a habit. In fact this might be more of a factor than his general pigginess. So another strategy would be to change walks to places he won't find food... I'm sure you've thought of this and would do it if you could, but thought I'd just throw it in anyway.

It's definitely a word (I use it anyway). It's always been an issue but he'd got so much better with it and now I feel like we're back at square one and I don't know how I got the improvement in the first place so can't do it again.

I do keep trying to think of ways to avoid the food but we live down a dead end and at the open end, there is a takeaway on both sides (excessive doesn't cover the number of takeaways down the street) and then kids take all sorts onto the park at the back of us which is our 'quick pee' location. Heading away from the park in the other direction is slightly better food wise but then there's more people, especially outside the bistro / bar thing and the conservative club which means drunk people and yet more takeaways. I ended up carrying him last night because we weren't getting anywhere and I was getting wound up. I'm convinced I need to buy a house with lots of land and just never leave it :lol:

At this point, I'm wondering how I can get him to do anything because he's a nightmare, both in the house (back to being too interested in the cats constantly and running upstairs at every opportunity) and out :x

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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Sanna » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:55 am

Def see how you go when he finishes his course of steroids, my vet reckons they make most dogs ravenous ;)

I give pigs trotters as a recreational chew, they last ages and certainly can't be swallowed whole- the ones I've got at the moment are probably almost the same size as Laufey :lol:

delladooo
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:02 am

I was told he would be hungrier but nothing like this.

Do you give trotters dried or raw? He's current got a dried cow hoof he has a good chew on but it smells something nasty and he likes to have these things on my knee :roll: He's also got a stag bar which he also enjoys gnawing on. A trotter the size of him would hopefully last a while! I'll have to see if I could get any. I need to go to the butchers tomorrow but I'm running out of space in the freezer :shock: He currently has a drawer in our freezer as we don't really have space for another but I keep buying things :oops: There's beef, duck and lamb in there all of which he's never had yet but I keep buying when I find it cheap :oops:

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Nettle
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Nettle » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:56 am

Steroids do indeed make animals (inclusing us) ravenous. You can help by giving him much more in the way of raw vegetables, green veg, that is. Give it in big pieces or whole so that it's harder work for him to chew.
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:43 am

I'll see what other raw veg I can find for him too then :) there's always stuff in for the rabbits but they prefer big leaves to stalky middles

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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Sanna » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:20 pm

A big head of green cabbage maybe? Gnawing on that and ripping it apart might keep him happy for a while, tho P never used to eat much of it just shred it really (if you don't mind the clean up). I give the pigs trotters raw.

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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:54 pm

I'll definitely try more cabbage, he had cauliflower cores today and seems to just like eating it. He's currently very into this dried hoof but he wants to be close to me with it and it's just nasty :roll: Somehow I still give in

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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Nettle » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:40 pm

Broccoli is good too. :)
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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by Sweetie's Human » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:49 pm

delladooo wrote:but he wants to be close to me with it and it's just nasty :roll: Somehow I still give in
:lol: sometimes Sweetie will sit beside her bone and stare at us until we come and give her some attention. Then she's straight onto the bone, ignoring us. We walk away, she stops with the bone and stares again...

I can vouch for prednisone (asthma) turning humans into ravenous beasts. And it seems like it makes you actually gain more weight than you would if you just ate that much without the steroids... :roll:

Any chance of luring him away from the food on the ground with a small treat? I know you're trying to get him to avoid eating more, but if the treat is smaller than whatever is on the ground, it's a net positive and you may be able to break a habit, or create a new one if you eventually swap "food on the ground - go to mum for a treat" to "food in the ground - go to mum for a fuss"? Also the food in your hand is definitely safer than the food on the ground.

Also - according to Sweetie, beef neck bones, with all their nooks and crannies, are way awesomer than straight-up-and-down bones like brisket or ribs. And I like that they have less fat on them. Win.

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Re: So hungry it's driving him to distraction

Post by delladooo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:00 pm

Nettle wrote:Broccoli is good too. :)
Oh yes, we love the stalks but not so much the heads :lol:
Sweetie's Human wrote:sometimes Sweetie will sit beside her bone and stare at us until we come and give her some attention. Then she's straight onto the bone, ignoring us. We walk away, she stops with the bone and stares again...
:lol: They're a nightmare aren't they. The best one is when he brings his antler for me to hold whilst he gnaws it, somehow I always give in even if it means I'm trying to work one handed :roll:
I've heard of prednisone but I can't remember where :?
Any chance of luring him away from the food on the ground with a small treat? I know you're trying to get him to avoid eating more, but if the treat is smaller than whatever is on the ground, it's a net positive and you may be able to break a habit, or create a new one if you eventually swap "food on the ground - go to mum for a treat" to "food in the ground - go to mum for a fuss"? Also the food in your hand is definitely safer than the food on the ground.
This works sometimes but it depends on how yummy smelling the thing is. It's also increasingly hard to see these things in the dark but we're trying. The worst bit is when he tries to get under parked cars after things and his moving on cue lands on deaf ears a lot at the minute so hoping to get that back pronto.
Also - according to Sweetie, beef neck bones, with all their nooks and crannies, are way awesomer than straight-up-and-down bones like brisket or ribs. And I like that they have less fat on them. Win.
I'll try that once he's on beef - it's intro to beef next week and intro to lamb the week after. Then I have some duck and salmon for him to try too if he's up for it. I'm hoping to speak to the butcher tomorrow and see what they're willing to sell me

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