itching

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delladooo
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itching

Post by delladooo »

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on flea treatments or other ideas on what could be the cause, I'm not 100% certain fleas are the cause but Laufey has a very itchy back end and was given both stronghold and advocate from the vet (stronghold about a month and a half ago, advocate about a month) which seemed to help for a while but didn't eradicate the itching. The cats have been treated with advantage and weren't / aren't itchy at all. Slightly concerned as it must be hell for him but don't want to start with testing for everything under the sun if it's not necessary. I'm still hoping to go raw in the next few months but still feel like I haven't read enough and we have absolutely nowhere to put it at the minute :roll: and was wondering if raw and commercial flea treatments mix (I know a lot of people go holistic not medicated but is there reason for this beyond preference) I'm thinking of trying for a natural flea treatment if there's something that works with little fuss and can do the cats too :?
JudyN
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Re: itching

Post by JudyN »

I think you mentioned a while back that he had lots of 'sweet spots' that get him scratching? This could link in to Jasper developing new sweet spots & his skin shuddering when I stroke him, which the vet put down to him becoming oversensitised to insect bites and possibly long grass (wouldn't need to be so long with Laufey). When I asked about this on a lurcher forum someone else said that their dog is often generally itchy which they have put down to flea allergy plus a reaction to flea treatment. They didn't mention any treatment and I assume they would have researched that :?

I don't think there would be any problem mixing raw diet & commercial flea treatment.

For now, I'm not planning to use chemical flea treatments on Jasper and will keep a very close eye on him (it might be harder to spot fleas on Laufey). I'm going to keep on using Stronghold on the cat, though, as he does get infested if I stop treating him, and he's never had any problem with the treatment. It might be that if Laufey is sensitive to either flea bites or flea treatment, the best solution is to carry on treating the cats but use natural methods on him (check out this thread: https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19872 )
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
delladooo
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Re: itching

Post by delladooo »

Oh yes, he's practically one big sweet spot :roll: He does love to play in grass too no matter how long it is (he'd roll around in it all day I'm convinced). Fleas on Laufey are difficult to spot (I think I've found one of a 'baldy bit') but it's much easier on the cats (not to mention finding flea dirt on my white blanket when they're due to be treated) I will try the DE on him mentioned in your thread (possibly the cats too if they'll let me) but in the mean time I might try the advocate again as it seemed to make him itch less than the stronghold. The stronghold has been his monthly treatment since I got him and the itching has got progressively worse so could be connected to that. I'm just reluctant to have the vets start messing with him if there's no need and I haven't mentioned raw to them yet (not sure I'm going to either as I have no idea what they think to it) but if it continues or gets worse then I will see what they say - the new vet we saw last time gave him the advocate to try first before any testing which worked for about a week before getting itchy again so I'm very confused about these fleas. Although there are definitely fleas about yet - mum caught one earlier that she thinks was from Laufey :x
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Nettle
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Re: itching

Post by Nettle »

First get a flea comb and run it through his coat to see if he actually has fleas. You'll see black spots of flea dirt in places such as the root of his tail, behind his ears and along his back, armpits and inside his thighs. It's always sensible to treat cats for fleas as most of the fleas found on dogs are actually cat fleas.

Once you have established whether or not he has fleas, the next step is to deal with what he does have, so come back to us :) Even if you can't feed raw meat at this time, you can feed raw vegetables and fruit which always help with skin itchies. We will tell you how.
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delladooo
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Re: itching

Post by delladooo »

I can't find any flea dirt on his 'baldy spots' ie his armpits, inside of his thighs, most of his belly, and running a comb through his coat yielded nothing. It's mostly his back end around his bum and legs but does had the odd itch of his neck and front legs. He gets whole veg to chew on an particularly loves cabbage but nothing blended. I was considering trying an antihistamine but I have no idea which or how much to give :?
WufWuf
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Re: itching

Post by WufWuf »

I'll be back to help with the antihistamine dosage just don't have typing time right now :D
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Steve29
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Re: itching

Post by Steve29 »

If Laufey has fleas you should be able to find evidence of them on the dog. But, you can treat with diatomaceous earth if not sure. There are a lot of reasons for itching...we itch sometimes too. It could be an allergy, dry skin, worms, etc. Each possibility will have to be addressed to find out the cause. It may take some time to figure it out, but that's why we have dogs. I would check what's in the food for a possible allergic substance.
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Nettle
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Re: itching

Post by Nettle »

Today I read in a dog magazine (vet Richard Allport article) that out of 9 samples of dried dog food tested 7 had mites in them. I bet this is at the root of a lot of itchy dog issues.
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delladooo
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Re: itching

Post by delladooo »

Ooo I didn't know that Nettle.

I've been inclined to think it's not a good issue as its persisted through a range of foods (what I originally thought was general itching seems to be too frequent when you really pay attention). I'm still planning on going raw when I find a suitable freezer set up for the space we have.

In the mean time is there anything I can do to help him? Originally my mum said he might just be an 'itchy dog' but I'm not inclined to believe it and really want to improve this, especially if it is something in the environment or food which could affect our other animals long term (the cat loves to eat dog food :roll: ) they all get pretty close to each other but only Laufey seems to be itchy so maybe it is an allergy?
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Nettle
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Re: itching

Post by Nettle »

So many causes for Skin Things, and often more than one cause.

As a friend of mine says, there are only two reasons skin trouble: something on the inside trying to get out, or something on the outside trying to get in (copyright Essential Care for Dogs by Drakeford and Elliott). The skin is the biggest organ in the body and its job is to act as a barrier. So something irritating inside a dog (food allergy, other toxins, parasites, medication among others) is expelled partly through the skin, and external environmental challenges like chemicals, vegetation and so on may cause the skin to flare up as it tries to protect the dog from whatever it is.

It's a big task to identify and treat the problem and inevitably we get led astray from time to time, or the vet opts for a quick fix like a steroid which halts the immune response temporarily. Or we can be misinformed by a test based on a computer programme which is only as good as that programme (same with DNA testing) and certainly can come unstuck with atopica testing.

So changing the food (in the future for you) can sometimes ease the whole problem - but not always. Sometimes we have to keep looking. What causes allergies in one animal may not cause them in any of the others in the household - they are all individuals.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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delladooo
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Re: itching

Post by delladooo »

Thank you! I'll keep that in mind and see if changing the food helps. If not I'll start more actively trying to rule things out because there is no way I can watch him do this long term :shock:
Maxy24
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Re: itching

Post by Maxy24 »

Did the vet do a skin scraping? I'd want to check for things like mange, Tucker had mange when we got him and he was soooooo itchy, we felt terrible for him. If you want to switch foods go with something simple. One protein source, one major carb source (if it uses rice it only uses rice, not rice, potatoes, barley, etc.) if you can find it. Not a lot of brands have super simple stuff unfortunately. A lot have single protein sources but not single carb sources.
delladooo
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Re: itching

Post by delladooo »

No, I've not had the vet do a skin scraping. When I first took him they prescribed a second, different, flea treatment (the advocate) and said to get back to them if it didn't improve over the weekend. It improved slightly so I didn't get back to them but it's now levelled off. I've not taken him back to the vets yet as I assume they'll run allergy tests and I'm not 100% confident in mite diagnosis after a friend lost her dog after a mite treatment (the treatment and the outcome seemed closely related). I'm inclined to think it's not mites as he's not suffering from any hair loss and it's not intense itching - his symptoms are more periodic and interrupt-able which lead me to think it was something that's just annoying him not making him suffer. I'm keeping him on the applaws until we go raw as it's about the best food I can find relatively cheaply with the highest meat content I've seen around - these are the first 6 ingredients: Chicken 66% (from Dried Chicken), Chicken Mince 8%, Peas 8% (from Dried Peas), Potato Starch 6%, Poultry Oil 2.5% (Source of Omega 6). I took him off a food with rice as the only carb as the ratio of meat to rice wasn't as good (36% Poultry Meal to to 18% Brown Rice).
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