Pet treats of Chinese origin

[JudyN]

Rather than clog up gwd's thread about morning bile, where she questioned my choice of Pet Munchies, as their country of origin is China, I thought I'd start a thread of my own.

Having had a hunt around on the internet, I found this response from the owner of a website, MyItchyDog, that sells them, to someone who queried them:

I've just had a reply from the MyItchyDog lady and it seems Pet Munchies are fine:

"Thanks for your email. Yes, Pet Munchies are made in China but I know where, which factory and the owner of the company. I also know what they're treated with before being dried/roasted.

The company is run by an English lady who wanted very good treats for her own dogs who have lots of allergies themselves (had a long talk with her about the Chinese 'issue' around treats last week at a pet trade show). The factory that makes them only makes Pet Munchies for the UK market, not the Waggin Train jerky treats you're referring to for the US market and Walmart.

They're not treated with glycerol nor do they have any melamine added to them (there would be no point, melamine is used as a cheap protein source - though it shouldn't be in a million years - but as there are no added ingredients except for a little sugar/salt solution (0.3%) I can vouch for them wholeheartedly. If I thought they were dodgy I would not sell them.

Equally, I eat them at dog shows when people ask me if they're fit to eat, and have done for a few years now and haven't suffered any ill effects!

Secondly, the FDA and US markets are bound by different rules which are more lax than ours by a long way. Often, my wholesaler will run out of a dog treat I stock because they've been held up at customs. This isn't a VAT issued but a VET issue. All food and treats that comes into the UK and EU has their own set of rules and tests to pass before it's allowed in. Our food is monitored by DEFRA and the EU rules, not FDA rules, which are quite different.

I could sell many more varieties of jerky treat but won't because I can't vouch for it's pedigree or the word of the company owner. In all the years I've sold these treats I've never heard of a dog getting sick and I feed them to our Bedlingtons too.

I'm currently working on a story about the Chinese treats issue hence the length of the email, it's funny but no one worries about treats made in Thailand or the food, and their practices can be horrendous. Equally, if you buy a dry dog food in the UK it will have had nutrition sprayed onto it after cooking as the heating process takes a lot of it out during cooking. The food may be made in the UK but it will be sprayed with a vitamin and mineral compound made in China. It's a minefield.

Sorry to go on, but I hope that helps put your mind at rest. I've already processed your order but it's still sitting here and won't be offended in the least if you want to change products, we love our dogs and wouldn't want to put them in harms way. Let me know.

Best wishes
Kate"

So - should I be reassured, or should I still be wary of anything with ingredients from China? Or are there other reasons for avoiding Chinese products which would make you avoid them regardless?

[PHOENIX]

Hi Judy,

I wish the FDA and other supposed "food watchdogs" in the US were half as diligent and caring as those that monitor foods for all species in the UK. What the FDA allows is sickening.

Anywho, that isn't what you asked.

I really like the reply you received from Kate. I read and re-read her response, and it doesn't sound like she is blowing smoke at you. I think it is great that she has personal contact with the owner of the company and is familiar with what they do, and with what they do not do, as well as which types of products they do not process at that plant.

If you are stil uncertain about the veracity of her statements, you can do a search on her to find out if the things she is saying stand up, or if others have had complaints about her "truthfulness." There are few secrets that cannot be discovered as a result of the internet. Try searching under the product name and something like 'recalls' or 'complaints."

I doubt she would have been so specific in her information if she had anything to hide. If she was trying to hide something, her response would have been more of a "form letter."

For those who would like home made, personally delivered treats, I would consider it, but I live on the other side of the pond, making "personally delivered" a bit of a challenge. I make several flavors of dog cookies and I would dry beef and yams for Ringo.

I hope Jasper is feeling better and is enjoying his cookies.




Ringo's dad

[Nettle]

"Food monitoring" in the UK is more fluff than reality. There is legislation on what can and can't be called food, but it is very liberal. Feathers, for instance, are categorised as protein. Colouring agents forbidden for use in UK human food (though curiously found in medicines) are permitted in dog food.

And I am equally sceptical about ingredients from certain other countries too.

It's getting to the stage where if I haven't killed it or made it myself, I don't trust it. I'm pretty thorough about checking origins, but still not entirely convinced that anything manufactured is safe or that we get the real truth. All I can say in mitigation is that paranoia has never let me down

[PHOENIX]

Hi Nettle,

From the words of another poster, it made it sound like the food monitoring in the UK was much, much better than what we have here in the US.

Sadly, I guess none of them are to be trusted.

It is why I started preparing Ringo's food and why I made his cookies.

I was curious about the "Canine Carry Out Treats" and called the company a few years ago. The package (then) stated it was Distributed by Del Monte Foods, but did not say where it was made.

The person at Del Monte told me that the country of origin (US Regulations) does NOT need to be included on the packaging if that country is the United States. This person assured me that they do not use "Trusted Asian Sources," which we all know is the new code for "China" in their products.

However, more recent information regarding the Canine Carry Out treats reveals that Del Monte is in fact using ingredients from China. They get around having to reveal that on the packaging becuase the product is not being made in it's entirety in China.

These greedy bastards are playing games with the lives of our beloved pets and to them it is just a joke.

The only way this nonsense will stop is to hit those who are doing this, and hit them in the only place where they will get teh message - in their bank accounts.

I wanted to destroy teh display of Waggin Train Chicken Jerky treats in Walmart the other day. Had I seen anyone reach for them I would have talked them out of buying them, as I do anytime someone reaches for a bag of poison, I mean items of Chinese origin.




Ringo's Dad

[Ari_RR]

While there may be perfectly safe products made in China.... when it come to treats, i do not purchase anything other than what says "made in USA"... Most of that - "organic", with few exceptions. This makes the choices of purchased treats for Ari quite limited. But that's fine. There are always leftovers of that roasted chicken, he loves steamed broccoli, and cheese sticks (made in USA of course)

[JudyN]

i do not purchase anything other than what says "made in USA"..

Though couldn't that include items manufactured in the USA but out of ingredients sourced from China and other countries?

I should start baking Jasper's biscuits - at least unlike the rest of my cooking, if it goes wrong there's still a pretty good chance that he'll like it. Though some in the raw feeding community would frown on anything that's been within 12 inches of the oven.

[Erica]

Yes, if it just says "Made in the USA" it could import the ingredients from elsewhere.

My question would be, if there's so much controversy and worry over ingredients from China, what reasons would a company have to stay there? What are the reasons they aren't moving the production? Granted that's going to be a huge operation, but...it makes me wonder.

In the US, Zuke's is a brand which uses meat sourced from the US, except for rabbit and venison from New Zealand. I don't think you can find it across the pond, though. (Again for US folks, Wet Noses makes a great treat called "Little Stars" which are very very small. Pickier dogs may not like them, but all the ingredients are US sourced. They've also got various other types, but I love the Little Stars for training Pip, Tal, and Marble.)

I found these treats by going to a local pet boutique which is focused on quality products. They do stock foods etc that I wouldn't use (this forum has made me very picky, which is good but sometimes annoying ), but they're all higher quality than the stuff you'd find at a big chain pet store. If you can find a store like that near you, it'd be a good place to start looking.

Though, really, making your own treats is almost easier I think there are even some recipes on here...here's the thread I was looking for. Dried sweet potatoes/yams could be a good idea, depending on if they agree with Jasper's tummy. All of Ami's crew really loved them and they're easy to make.

[ClareMarsh]

The thing for me with the chicken jerky treats is the price. If you think about what it would cost in decent quality chicken and then the processing, even taking into account the bulk discount the manufacturer will get, they are still usually too cheap to give me confidence of the quality of the chicken that went into making them

[PHOENIX]

Hi Erica,

To try to answer your questions about why companies still choose to either manufacture in China, or use ingredients from China sadly, the answer is very basic - greed.

Manufacturing costs in China are a pittance of what they are in the United States, the UK and other areas of the world.

In certain countries of the world, the keeping of pets is "foolish" and "unnecessary." Many do not understand why we spend so much time, money and resources on animals they consider "food."

They are also "playing the odds." Since not every dog (or cat) is getting sick, they can still try to blame other causes when a dog or cat gets sick or dies from ingesting their products. Also, since many with pets feed a variety of food items (food, treats, etc.), they can also use misdirection and point the finger elsewhere.

But the bottom line is greed.

There is no polite way to say it, and there is no excuse for it.

Standards have to be set, maintained and ENFORCED. Without those safeguards in place, espeically the enforcement, everything falls apart.

Who in their right mind would think to use melamine, a toxic substance to humans and animals, to boost the protein content of food? The sensible answer would be to add more real protein. But melamine is a waste product. And rather than put it in the refuse dump, they add it to the foods they sell our dogs. They buy it for pennies a ton, while we get charged a premium per pound. It's the same reasoning behind using anti-freeze as a sweetener in cough medications, tooth pastes and other products they make and typically ship to either the "dollar stores" in the United States, the US penal system or to Central America, where tens of thousands got sick and died from kidney failure.

One would think the world would be outraged and there would be a lot of pressure put on the manufacturers in China to stop these practices.

But the almighty dollar speaks louder than we do.

Until these companies, especially those at the top, are fined millions upon millions of dollars and their unacceptable practices are changed, nothing is going to change for the better.

Inspectors have to be beyond being bribed to "turn the other way," and other measures need to be implemented.

Many of those factories that have been using toxic materials as fillers or protein boosters need to be razed. I don't know if they, especially the equipment, can be cleaned to the point where you can guarantee that all traces of those toxins have been removed.

But someone has to be willng to stand up to them and say "no more."

Their products need to be prevented from being accepted at ports and they have no place to send or sell them.

As for how they can sell chicken jerky treats so inexpensively ....

My sister has a farm and occasionally takes chickens to the auction. Many times she brings them back home because the selling price for a chicken that day was $0.25 (sometimes they sell for as much as $0.35). Twenty-five cents for an entire chicken. Even if you factor in the time and cost of processing, it still comes to a much, much lower price than you can buy chicken when it is on sale at the grocery store.

I wonder if the practices in China are going to change somewhat now that having a dog in China is beoming a status symbol among those of a certain economic status.

Or will China produce healthful food for their own and keep sending the rest of the world the poison they have been producing?

Until our voices are heard and our leaders act, we have to do our best to protect those we love. But when the origin of ingredients are undisclosed or worse, lied about, it makes that task very difficult.



Ringo's dad