Some questions about kibble?

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Anatine
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:55 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Some questions about kibble?

Post by Anatine »

I know nothing about dog food, and I would maybe like if some people answered some questions I have?
(I'm super interested in learning about dog diets!)
I thought learning about the food my OH's mum feeds OH's puppy; Quorra, might be a good first step to take!
Esspecially as I would like to know much more about dogs before getting my own (which most probably wouldn't be for years, until after uni, and I'm in a good place financially to provide for one) though Quorra is practically mine as well, as I'm the one that's done most of her training ahah :)

http://www.oscars.co.uk/products/dog/fo ... arge-breed
This is what she eats

-Does Gluten-Free have any benefit? (Apart from feeding dogs with gluten intolerance/allergy)
-What is BHA and BHT?
-Dogs on kibble have big poos, yes? Is this from all the carbs, like rice?
-Aparently the salt added works as a preservative, is salt in dog food bad?

Thank you for any replies! :D
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by Erica »

1- Dogs don't get much, if any, nutrition from wheat, so wheat-free (thus gluten free) is good. Ideally, you want grain free.
2- BHA and BHT are preservatives, but are thought to be carcinogenic.
3- Yes, the fillers like rice, potatoes, and other plants are typically used to bulk out the kibble (and therefore end up bulking out the poos), and as I understand it, to help the kibble dough keep its shape. At 45% rice, though, I would personally be looking for something with more meat than plant!
4- Not sure, sorry!

Dogfoodadvisor.com is a fun site to browse for dog diets. They review a large assortment of dog foods and break down what is good and bad about each.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
rnor1120
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: USA

Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by rnor1120 »

Anatine wrote:-Does Gluten-Free have any benefit? (Apart from feeding dogs with gluten intolerance/allergy)
-What is BHA and BHT?
-Dogs on kibble have big poos, yes? Is this from all the carbs, like rice?
-Aparently the salt added works as a preservative, is salt in dog food bad?
1. Gluten is neither inherently good nor inherently bad. Gluten is the protein portion of certain grains (wheat, barley, rye), and is in fact a good source of protein. A dog who is not intolerant of gluten probably won't have any issues eating a food containing gluten. Gluten intolerance (and sensitivities to grains in general) in dogs is rare, and the most commonly isolated allergens in dogs are usually the meat portion (beef, chicken, lamb, pork).

2. As Erica said, preservatives. They're also antioxidants. They may be carcinogenic, and they may also have antioxidant benefits. Basically there's a lot of research without any definitive answer.

3. Depends on the kind of dog food. The higher the fiber content, the larger the poos. My dogs are both on a normal adult maintenance dog food and have what I would consider to be normal sized dog poos. Once, I had to feed Chance a weight loss (very high fiber) kibble due to a food shipment failure when I was living on the island. I had to feed him 4 cups a day (twice usual) to keep his weight correct and he defecated HUGE piles.

4. No, salt in dog food is not a bad thing. Most commercial dog foods undergo rigorous testing and have to adhere to certain guidelines (in the USA, it's AAFCO) before being sold. So the salt content is just right, unless the batch is botched.
Anatine
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Location: Devon, UK

Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by Anatine »

Thank you Erica and Rnor1120! :)
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Nettle
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Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by Nettle »

While I have enormous respect for rnor's training, I have to state an alternative view on the salt. Salt added to a dog's diet is potentially harmful. It does not matter if it is within governmental guidelines because those are based on a dose that does not kill a generic dog. Dogs have differing tolerances for salt, and some can become ill from even a small amount. Government guidelines allow for a lot of odd ingredients in commercial dog (cat, other animal) food. Dogs do not need added salt, and it is only added as a preservative and flavouring.

(There is a certain brand of cat food that twenty years ago was marketed as one that cats would choose above all others. They did, too. The 'secret ingredient' was salt - there was a very high salt content. And then cats started to become very ill with kidney problems. Some vets made the connection, and words were said in high places. The government guidelines on salt content were reduced, and fewer cats became ill. Cats aren't dogs but the principle holds).
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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WufWuf
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Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by WufWuf »

rnor1120 wrote:Most commercial dog foods undergo rigorous testing and have to adhere to certain guidelines (in the USA, it's AAFCO) before being sold
This article takes a very interesting look at AAFCO http://dogsfirst.ie/the-pet-food-police/
Operant conditioning rocks but classical conditioning rules
jacksdad
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Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by jacksdad »

rnor1120 wrote:Most commercial dog foods undergo rigorous testing and have to adhere to certain guidelines (in the USA, it's AAFCO) before being sold.
with respect rnor1120, I have been in the corporate world way to long to have any trust or faith in an organization such as the AAFCO. Now, if they were truly independent from the commercial food industry or the promotion of agricultural industries, I might take them more seriously, but they aren't. so I can't. One of the other problems with AAFCO is by creating a minimum standard from a seemingly "independent" organization packed with government officials...you give the food companies an out for producing the minimum, not the optimum.

as for testing, yes, food companies test, but devil is in the details. Rigorously tested...ok, by who and to what standard? Or meets all AAFCO guidelines, well what are those guidelines? are those guidelines for minimum nutritional needs or optimum nutritional needs? those are questions we need to ask our self because corporation will spend time and money figure out how to phrase things just right to influence buying choices.

Corporations do first what makes them money, second what keeps them out of court, everything else is a distance third.

I know this might all sound a little tin foil hat like. but like I said, been working in the corporate world for over 20 years, not a lot of faith in them to do what is right for my dog verse their bottom line. There are always exceptions though, which is where the questioning what they say, your independent research and education come in.

Yes, commercial dog food won't kill the first time a dog eats it. That goes back to making money first, staying out of court second. you can't sell product if your product is a known killer and lands you in court. So in that sense, yes the food is safe. But safe and meeting optimum health and nutritional needs are NOT always one and the same with all food companies.

The fact corporations do what make them money gives us great power to change them if we are educated and demand a better product and show we are willing to pay for it. Look at the last few years as more and more dog food companies appear to be improving their product. At least in terms of reducing grains or offering grain free product. But again, devil is in the details, learn to read the labels, what the words mean, where the standards are coming from etc, etc to judge IF they are truly improving.

whole dog journal also has lots of good information on commercial food, how to understand the label and how to educate your self to make a good choice what food to buy if you choose to feed commercially produced food. http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/
Anatine
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:55 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Some questions about kibble?

Post by Anatine »

I'm back to ask more questions on kibble :)
Quorra for the last couple months hasn't been enjoying her kibble, we've started only leaving it on the floor for about 10-15 minutes, then picking it up, so she realises that it's not always readily available. But she's still not interested.
She'll eat everything else offered to her, anything but her kibble.
So we've been thinking of changing it, but are trying to be careful in our selection.
At the moment our favourite is 'Natures Way' (http://www.itsnaturesway.co.uk/ you can see the recipes on their website) it's made local to where we live, it's cheaper than her current food (£3.50/per kg compared to £3.70/per kg), and the products are about 50% meat compared to her current food with only 23%.
The only thing that we're worried over is the fact it contains barley, so isn't gluten free. We are pretty sure Quorra isn't gluten intolerant, so should this not be a problem?
They also have a section for positive training on their website, which also makes me like them more!
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