Copious poop?

[Dawnflight1984]

Yes, this is going to be a poop post....

So my dog, after having been on a cooked chicken, potato and wheatgrass diet for a while after her last health scare was switched back to raw chicken, honest kitchen preference (I only feed about a tablespoonful before rehydration) and wheatgrass diet. She is also taking digestive enzymes, papaya and probiotics. Reason for the switch was because her poop was so stinky and varying in quality that I thought I had had enough.

When we switched back to raw, she was allowed to eat as much as she wanted and I found out that she could regulate herself and stop when she's full! Major surprise to me because previously, she would not stop at all. However, after a week of being allowed to eat as much/little as she wanted, we realised that while she was still producing good quality, fairly decent smelling/scentless poop, they were copious compared to before!

She's putting on weight, and while she doesn't eat a relatively even amount of chicken each day, in a week, she does eat about the right 2-3% average daily, as compared to before, when I would be controlling the amount she eat each day (usually exceeding the limit). Is this something I should be concerned about or need I tweak her diet?

[Nettle]

Sounds like one of those ain't-broke things you don't need to fix

Could be she had sluggish bowel and had to get rid of something that had been lingering in too long, or could be that she is not yet absorbing as much of her food as possible.

But it sounds as if everything is 'moving' in the right way, so I'd carry on as you are doing.

[ClareMarsh]

I'd carry on too, you've been concerned with Oreo loosing weight before so gaining a little in the short term won't hurt when taken in the context of he other issues around food. She is also choosing to stop, I would keep going rather than restrict her and perhaps have her loose the ability to self regulate. She may even reduce further once she gets used to the new regime, if not you can tweak it down slowly when you've given it a few more weeks/months.

[Dawnflight1984]

Hello, thanks for the replies! It really puts me at ease! But I have a sudden realisation - every time after a huge raw meal, she'll have lots and lots to poop the following day. and it will persist for the next few days. the other day, I just about panicked, and decided to just give her a 24 hour fast. she pooped just once in that 24 hours, and it wasn't really a lot. and then it kind of "rebooted" and we are starting over, with her eating so much chicken last night, this morning, she couldn't eat her breakfast at all; and of course, she pooped throughout the day. nicely formed, small poops, but they accumulate!

Here's my question: While I get it that more input = more output, I thought when dogs feast and fast (or eat less), on days when they eat lots, they are supposed to "store" the energy for "famine" days? Why is it that there's just so much more waste? Isn't all the extra intake wasted then?

Hope to hear from you soon!

[Nettle]

No, they don't store energy - or poop. They store fat if they are getting more food than they need.

Otherwise as I said above - she is new to this, she has been quite ill in the past, and her system is adjusting. Relax.

[Dawnflight1984]

No, they don't store energy - or poop. They store fat if they are getting more food than they need.

Otherwise as I said above - she is new to this, she has been quite ill in the past, and her system is adjusting. Relax.

Thanks! Relax, that I truly need! =P Just to confirm though, Oreo's chickens are always eaten without visible fats and skin (whatever I can remove, so pretty much everything except for what's on the head, wings and feet) because of her history of pancreatitis in Feb and the fact that the last time I gave her chicken with skin on, she ended up getting day warded for 3 days at the hospital for drip again. Is she still getting the fat she can store when she eats more, or is that just an absolute loss of extra food eaten?

[bendog]

Here's my question: While I get it that more input = more output, I thought when dogs feast and fast (or eat less), on days when they eat lots, they are supposed to "store" the energy for "famine" days? Why is it that there's just so much more waste? Isn't all the extra intake wasted then?

Think about what happens when a dog (or person) eats food: - it goes into the stomach, and is basically mushed up a bit, and then passes into the intestines, where all the important nutrients (amino acids, sugars, fatty acids, etc) are absorbed into the bloodstream. The vast majority of the rest is waste and passes on right through to be pooed out! More food = more waste.

Bigger meals may sit in the stomach for longer, to get mushed up more, but overall the process takes roughly similar time periods regardless of what was eaten. There would be no benefit in "storing" food in the stomach, because it just means the animal has excess mushed up food weight to carry around, and they would be sick (bodies can't digest, and run around, very well at the same time, which is why if you do a lot of exercise after eating, you throw up, to empty your stomach so you can focus on running, without having to send valuable oxygen to your stomach, and why most animals rest or feel sleepy after eating).

The nutrients that are absorbed are then shunted around the body in the blood stream (often via the liver to get changed into various other things) to where they are needed. This may mean being used immediately for protein synthesis, ATP production (energy), growth and a bazillion other things, or it may be "stored" e.g sugars stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle tissues, or triglycerides (fats) stored in adipose (fat) tissue (which is the "white fat" you cut off meat).

Excess amino acids (protein) can be metabolised into fats or glucose, either to provide energy, or be stored.

So although there are still plenty of fatty acids in skinless chicken, any protein that can't be used immediately will be stored as fat too.

[jacksdad]

Jack ran into some health issues a couple years ago that caused him to have some serious diarrhea issues. after changes in commercial food, following the directions of the current vet with their special food etc...I finally did what I wanted to do, put Jack on a raw diet. It was the only thing that cleared up his diarrhea. which seems "ironic" because when switching to a raw diet some people's dogs actually go through a brief period of diarrhea. My theory as to what was happening....home cooked and commercial (either over the counter or via the vet) were not meeting his needs for dealing with his epilepsy medication.

But like nettle says, it took some time for his body to adjust even though we didn't go through the diarrhea phase that some do going from cooked or commercial to raw, actually had the opposite. In his case his diarrhea cleared up. But even still it took the better part of a year as his body seem to absorb and crave the actual nutrients.

For example, veggies. when I first made the transition, he was getting close to a 1/4 cup of veggies a day (keep in mind he is a 15/16 pound dog), now I have had to cut that back. he was getting lots of fruit, lots of chicken etc. and his body was just using it up. i judge that based on his poops, his energy, his physical appearance, etc. so I have had to adjust quantities as he improved and settled in to the raw diet.

I also noticed that at least with my dog, from moment of intake to output (aka poop) can take between 12 and 24 hours. quantity of and what it is he ate, and current amount of exercise has a lot to do with how long from eating to pooping takes. some days he poops every walk, so 4 times a day, other days he poops once in 24 hours. sometimes its a lot of poop, sometimes it is a very small amount.

[Dawnflight1984]

Thanks everyone! It's just poop but I'm reassured and I've learnt a lot, I must say!

On the day after she binges, she really poops a lot, so much that my mother who's at home all day will take pictures of the poop and send them to me, with messages along the line of "your dog has pooped this much poop for x no. of times so far today! This is not usual. What have you done?!?!" (usually x is about 3-4).

I guess even my mum who's quite disapproving of me feeding Ms O raw food is really so used to seeing small, nicely formed, fairly odourless poop that the extra amount alarms her, must be a good thing, in a way, I guess!