Dog parks- yay or nay?

[stephfret]

Have been thinking about dog parks lately and wondering if they are really a good idea, or if they are dangerous. Thought I'd pose the question on here as a general discussion-- do you use them? Why or why not? If you do, how do you monitor your dog when he's off-leash and interacting with strange dogs? What do you do if someone else isn't monitoring their dog, or if someone else's dog behaves aggressively? How do you spot the difference between real aggression and play?

I'm a new dog owner and live in a big city. There is a great coffee shop near our house with a dog park attached. When I first discovered it I was taking Rooney there every few days to run around with the other dogs, but in the last week or so have had a couple of strange experiences that make me question the wisdom of this. The worst was on a day when there were quite a few dogs of various sizes and breeds at the park. Rooney was happily playing when a young couple showed up with their very big, fully intact pit bull-- easily twice my dog's size. The owners very lamely stood by while their dog terrorized the entire park, took a poo in the communal water bucket, and then 'played' so fiercely with my dog that Rooney was yelping and trying to get away but couldn't. I stepped in and brought Rooney to me, while the pit moved on to another dog (maybe a retriever, closer to his own size), and proceeded to wrestle the retriever to the ground and get its teeth around her throat. The pit's owners watched the entire exchange and did not take any action, only occasionally and absent-mindedly said 'blanco, no.' I couldn't decide if I should confront the owners or not, or even if that would be productive, so I took Rooney and left rather than stay and expose him further to this other dog.

While on the surface this park/cafe is very cool, after spending some time there I notice that owners are often chatting or reading or looking at their laptops on the terrace while their dogs are only getting half-attention. People have to walk in to the shop itself, leaving their dogs alone in the enclosure, to order their drinks to take outside with them. Some owners are more conscientious and stand in the enclosure the whole time, but others just do their own thing while the dogs run around.

What do you think? Great way to socialize and play, or dangerous and unneccessary? Or somewhere in between....

[Suzette]

For me, right now, it's a nay. Not because I think dog parks are a bad idea in general, but I don't think they're for every dog. Some will thrive there and be happy, happy dogs. Others not so much.

Because Piper is still a puppy (6 months old), I don't want to risk her having a bad experience at such a young age in a place where all the dogs are running free. (Okay, I won't want her having a bad experience at any age, if I can help it! ) But I think the chances of something negative happening at a dog park are significantly higher than when I take her to our local park where many folks take their dogs to walk the trails, but all are on leashes. This gives me a lot more control over who Piper may and may not interact with. (And she loves every dog that crosses her path! So I need to be the one to decide which ones will be friendly and which ones, well, maybe not so much.)

So for now I'll be erring on the side of caution and not taking her to dog parks.

[Ari_RR]

Agree with Suzette.. Not for every dog. For Ari - dog park has been mostly very positive experience... I can't unfortunately say that every dog who crosses paths with him enjoys it.. He is a big, high energy boy (90+ lbs, 14 months, unneutered still).. But one thing we did - we found a playground which has 2 separate sections - "small dogs" and "large dogs", which is good. We also by now know to some extend who goes there when, and try to go there when there aren't too many dogs there. And of course there've been occasions when we got to the playground only to find a dog there which he doesn't like for one reason or another.. Then we would just turn around and go for a walk.
Bottom line - I feel it's a good thing if you, the owner, have the ability to control environment there and make sure your dog is having a good, safe time, and so do other dogs.

Cheers
Eugene

[bendog]

We don't seem to have dog parks in the UK in the sense that they exist in America.

My dog would hate them. He hates other dogs anyway.

But as a socialising tool for puppies I think they are a useful way of ensuring your dog meets lots of other dogs, and hopefully learns to play nicely and enjoys being around dogs. Then, if your dog is well socialised and polite and enjoys the dog park, it's good to go to them. But leave if theres a dog you aren't sure of.

If your dog just doesn't seem happy, then it's not worth going.

[stephfret]

Yes, I guess the key is to know your own dog well enough to determine what is right for him.

Eugene, I like the setup you described of two separate areas for big dogs and small dogs. I wish my dog park had that! Rooney is on the small side of meduim and just can't handle some of the really big dogs' enthusiasm. Usually he is enjoying himself there, but when he plays with dogs three times his size, he can get overwhelmed. It worries me that I wouldn't be able to step in in time if one of them became genuinely aggressive.

[Ari_RR]

but when he plays with dogs three times his size, he can get overwhelmed. It worries me that I wouldn't be able to step in in time if one of them became genuinely aggressive.

In this case I would avoid the place for the time being, especially considering that some of the other owners don't pay close attention to their dogs, and there are really big and scary ones there.

But I would look to find another way to let him interact and play with dogs of his size and temperament. Not sure how old Rooney is, but in our corner of the world one can find a "puppy play time" class at a local dog training school... 6-7 dogs of same age are brought together and spend an hour or so playing, with a trainer observing and giving comments to the owners. This is good for puppies, but also for the owners.. in some cases, especially when a smaller puppy tries to play with a bigger one, "parents" are not sure if their small one is having a good time or not. The trainer can teach some basics of interpreting doggie body language, so owners don't overreact but at the same time don't miss signs of trouble. For example - standing next to each other looking in different directions may be ok, where staring at each other should raise an immediate alarm, and you should run over as quickly as you can and break the stare... But this "puppy play time" class was only available for small puppies, as far as I remember under 6 months old.

I would consider talking to some other owners of similar dogs as Rooney, perhaps someone would be open to getting together somewhere else where smaller dogs can just play, without having to constantly watch out for scary pittbulls? High school soccer field?

[JudyN]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a code of conduct for dog parks? Would you pay to use them if there was a 'bouncer' on hand to eject dogs who were aggressive to others, or refused to stop playing with ones who were scared?

I'd also be interested to know, what sort of size are typical dog parks? Can you have a decent walk in them, or do you really just have to play with your dog, or stand around while your dog plays?

Whether they were right for Jasper would depend on the other dogs, but I think even when he socialises nicely, he's just not that keen on making friends and would prefer an open space with just the occasional dog to say hello to.

[jacksdad]

I used to use Dog Park as Jacks primary exercise and socialization. For him that was the WRONG thing to do. So it absolutely depends on the dog. It also depends greatly on the "culture" of the individual dog park.

My experience with dog parks is the people tend to be clueless and not doing anything to address their dog if it's being a bully. There seems to be a bring dog, turn it loose, let the dogs sort it out attitude at dog parks that I have been to. Not sure I would recommend dog parks as a place for a young dog who is still going through critical development phases such as fear and socialization phases where lasting associations are made. I personally would recommend people avoid dog parks with these dogs in favor of places where they have more control over the experiences their dog has.

The local dog park in my town also has the small dog, large dog sections. I occasionally take Jack in to the small side, but he get bored there pretty quickly and often will ask to leave. So for us, it's rarely used anymore. we both enjoy the walks and exploring more.

I wouldn't focus too much on if a dog is neutered or not or a pit bull or not and take each dog as it's own individual. while everyone's experiences will be different, Jack and I have actually had more issues with neutered Labs than Pit bulls of any condition. On the beach some of the best behaved dogs were not neutered and one of Jacks absolutely best dog/dog play encounters was with a 1 maybe 1.5 year old intact Britney Spaniel.

So, long winded to get to this point, but my two cents, use dog park sparingly if at all. When someone brings in a dog that is rough and a bully, leave before there is an issue with your dog. AND if you do use dog parks, be willing to step in on behalf of your dog and realize this might mean you get hurt, but it's better than allowing your dog to be turned into a fearful dog. You will heal quicker than it takes to reverse a dog/dog encounter gone VERY BAD. I regularly would step in on behalf of my dog, my favorite tool for rude dogs was to pat them on the head in the most gentle but annoying way possible. most dogs gave me a "ugly look" and walked way then kept their distance. I would also body block dogs away from Jack. Now, knowing what I know, I don't even let it get to this point. on the odd times we do go into dog park if it looks like I will have to play "body guard" we leave.

[Ari_RR]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a code of conduct for dog parks?

Where we are - some dog parks have stricter rules then others. There is a very nice one near by where intact males over 6 months are not allowed, so we are unfortunately banned from that one. The one we go to allows intact males, but has large/small dog areas... which doesn't necessarily mean size, if you have a timid large dog, uncomfortable with other big ones, you can bring her to the "small dogs" side.

I am much less of a dog park fan now then before, when Ari was a young puppy. He lacks manners (we are working on it, he is getting better, but it's still very much work in progress), so I have to constantly follow him around to make sure he doesn't bother other dogs. He is great with some dogs there. So on a good day, when we are there and his friends/playmates are there, and not many other dogs - it's great, a lot of fun, running/chasing each other, friendly wrestling, etc. And on a bad day I have to remove him quickly, or even leave without actually entering the park, if there are too many dogs, or unknown dogs, or dogs with whom he doesn't get along well, or ignorant owners, of if Ari seems a bit too hyper himself.

Size-wise - the one we have is fairly large. If your dog prefers playing with you rather then with other dogs, you can find a remote corner where you can play fetch with your dog off leash without many other dogs coming over. Another good thing about a large playground is that dogs can really run there. The flip side is that if you need to step in and save your dog from an unpleasant encounter, you may have to sprint to the other side.. or be constantly on the move and follow him. Not every owner is in good enough shape for that

[Suzette]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a code of conduct for dog parks? Would you pay to use them if there was a 'bouncer' on hand to eject dogs who were aggressive to others, or refused to stop playing with ones who were scared?

I have a picture of a burly guy standing by the gate, arms folded over his broad chest, ready to bounce out any unruly dogs! But really, how nice would this be, to have someone over-seeing the park and stepping in when clueless owners do not. My concern though is that no matter who (or how quickly) someone steps in to intervene, once the incident has happened, your dog has been affected to some degree and that's a risk I'm not willing to take.

I'd also be interested to know, what sort of size are typical dog parks? Can you have a decent walk in them, or do you really just have to play with your dog, or stand around while your dog plays?

I have never actually taken Piper to a dog park (where the dogs run free), but I did go to one on my own to observe how the dogs interacted with each other and to see how observant and diligent the owners were. This park is securely fenced and quite large with the dogs playing and socializing pretty nicely, (though there was one minor skirmish between two dogs that was quickly and easily handled by their owners).

The people that were there that day were a mixed bag. Some played with their dogs, others stood around talking while their dogs ran and played with other dogs, but all seemed to be keeping a good eye on their dogs all the while. I spoke to a woman who goes to this park regularly and she said that was a very typical day at the park. All in all, I was pretty impressed, and I have to say the dogs all seemed friendly and happy, but for right now these parks still aren't for me and Piper. (And may never be, but as I'm fond of saying, never say never.)

[jacksdad]

in my area, I have had best luck at the beach with loose dogs. we have far less issues of rude dogs, clueless owners and bullies (human or dog).

again they vary from place to place, time of day to time of day and so forth. I would go by your self, observe a few different days etc if you really want to be careful. but honestly your dog isn't going to be loosing out if you don't go to dog parks and for some dogs they will actually do better not going.

[stephfret]

Oh, if only Rooney had a nice beach to run on! Sounds wonderful.

Actually, as I'm reading more responses I'm thinking the park I've been going to, which is one large enclosure attached to a coffee shop, is maybe more for the people than it is for the dogs. They've got nice coffee and beer, wifi, a lending library, good music, and you happen to be allowed to bring your dog. The mistake is in thinking that by going there, I'm giving Rooney what HE needs/wants-- and I suspect I'm not the only owner there to fall into that little self-delusion!

Until just a few days ago, it was my closest option for allowing him off-leash. We do have a lovely big people park within walking distance, but there aren't any off-leash dog enclosures there. But we've just finished fencing in our own back yard, which is just as big as the coffee/dog park and scary-dog-free. Now that he can chase balls and squirrels to his heart's content, I feel less pressure to find another destination for off-leash play, and can limit his wider exploration of the world to leashed walks, runs and bike rides, and yes the occasional visit to the coffee/park if we drive by and see that the conditions look right.

I think he's too old for puppy groups at this stage. He comes from the shelter so we aren't sure of his age, but the vet thought 8 or 9 months. I like the idea of chatting with other owners of similar sized dogs and organizing a get-together. That seems like a more focused and deliberate approach to getting him some social fun.

Also as a side note, I shouldn't have implied that just because the bully dog was intact he was aggressive. It just added to the intimidation I felt I guess, to see this huge dog enjoying himself at the expense of several of the other dogs at the park, while the owners clearly didn't have much control over him. Breed and reproductive status aside, that was the real problem-- they couldn't get his attention or call him to them.

[jacksdad]

a 15 foot leash is a great compromise for when you can't let a dog off leash for a wide variety of reasons. takes a bit of work on your part to make sure everyone doesn't trip or get tangled, but your dog does get a lot more freedom than a normal walking leash.