The ladydog and being on heat

Discussion dedicated to promoting the well-being of your dog through diet, exercise and general health tips.

Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
AlaskaSesFox
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:46 am

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by AlaskaSesFox » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:02 am

I am so glad I found this thread. My whole ***** who is 2.5 yo, and who we attempted to breed during her last heat cycle has presented with false pregnancy(confirmed by xray and us) the vet immediatly advised spaying. I explained the breeding had been less ideal as she had just become timidly receptive when they tied and the stud had to travel the next day (hubting trip) so no repeat breeding had been possible. (Both dogs are fabulous waterfowl retreviers here in Alaska and I have a waitlist for any resulting pups)

I see that you do not agree that a false pregnancy is an automatic spay, why do they? I felt alot of pressure from the vet. I am an avid supporter of spaying and nuetering dogs, I dont believe I am adding to an unwanted pet problem and I know both animals to be very fine specimens and will produce great hunting dogs.

Also, will this delay her hear cycle?

User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Nettle » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:38 am

It shouldn't delay her heat cycle, but they don't always have a precise schedule. The false pregnancy fits neatly between seasons exactly as a real pregnancy would. I have no idea why vets don't know it is normal, but then so many vets seem under-educated about entire female and male dogs anyway.


Yours sounds exactly the sort that should be bred from.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

AlaskaSesFox
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:46 am

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by AlaskaSesFox » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:25 am

Thank you so much for confirming my gut intuition!

ClareMarsh
Posts: 2008
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:11 am
Location: London, UK

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by ClareMarsh » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:36 am

ClareMarsh wrote:An interesting observation (it happened after the last season too, but I can't be sure it was at the exact same time as I really didn't make a note of it).

We're about 3 months past the start of her season and she's gone in a "humpy" phase where she humps a toy a few times a day. It's not problem and last time it only lasted a few weeks but it is interesting. Any thoughts Nettle?

I should add Ted is acting no different with her, but she has started playing with him again after steadfastly refusing to when I put them back together after her season despite his best efforts!
Yep, around 3 months past and here we go again with the humping :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Proud owner of Ted and baby Ella
My blog about Ted http://tinkerwolf.com/
Ted's Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Tinkerwolf
Ted's You Tube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTedVids

Cyoung206
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:21 am

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Cyoung206 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:41 am

First let me say to ALL of YOU! THANK YOU! I know this thread is older but I have learned so much from this thread than 2 hours of research on the net! So much information in one place! Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Let me give you a little background, all my life vets have told me to spay before the female hits her first heat. My first rescue lab, purebred and red but with no pedigree had to grow up so quickly - there was no 'puppy' state of mind by the time I had her in my home at 6 months. Two different vets told me to spay her before her first heat - therefore I did. That poor dog had 6 months of severe UTI infections every other week, to the point she piddled in the house in which she would act destroyed after she did it. I never yelled at her or punished her but she was mortified. She had incontinence for 6 months and still has a bout of UTI infections once or twice a year three years later. After this disaster I did research and decided to wait to spay my rat terrier and other young lab who just came into her first heat cycle at a year and a half old!

Ellie the young lab has been bleeding on and off for almost two weeks now, I found this thread last night because I was panicked after our evening bike ride. Ellie had stopped to pee every 20 ft, sometime with no urine coming out - then she would just drag herself and jump up; ready to start running again! Her behavior has been a little more clingy, in a good way. She now can be recalled and comes! Yay! I've been working on this for a year now; the puppy mentality that was talked about she has in aces and spades. Shes a great dog just beats to her own tune which where I live can be a very bad thing with the way she loves water and how we have alligators. Needless to say leash at all times and since she has gone into season her recall has been great! Thank you all again for the input on the thread, I mean she even ran sideways last night, and between that and the frequent urination and pooping I really thought something was wrong. Her abdomen isnt distended or tender, there is no pus or other fluid leaking other than the spotting that is normal and from what I gathered from this forum scent marking and frequent urination and different pooping schedules is normal. Shes eating like a horse, drinking the normal amount nothing else is different.
My ratter girl didn't have any of these signs, sure she urinated quite frequently but nothing that was like "omg is it a UTI? What is going on?!' She also spotted a little but was very very clean with little to no swelling. She might have backed up to the male cat who doesnt really like her anyways but she was a hard core flirt which Ellie has no similarities of.

Thank you everyone again for this wealth of information ! Its been a life saver when I've never experienced this before.

User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Nettle » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:10 am

Pleased to be of help. :) Thank you.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

Drewtheman96nw
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:22 pm
Location: Salem, Oragon
Contact:

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Drewtheman96nw » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:32 pm

Thanks so much for all this information. As I have one female dog my mother have been pressuring me to get my dog spayed. I'm not exactly sure what to do, this article put things into perspective. Thank you! :D
I'm what I eat and my paw family holds a special place in my stomach! :D :) :lol:

Spancoluki
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Spancoluki » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:24 pm

During the false pregnancy, whether obvious or not, and for three months after the season, the b itch's tendons and ligaments will be slacker, and she will lose her muscle tone and gain a little weight. This means feeding less, and avoiding any kind of leaping twisting exercise, as otherwise the dog may damage herself. Normal exercise is fine, and also necessary to keep her healthy.
I am interested in this, as I compete in dog agility. My understanding has always been that the relaxin hormone, which causes this slackening, is only present when the b itch is pregnant as it's produced by the ovary and the placenta? Obviously, I would be concerned if there was a reason why this should be the case during pseudo pregnancy "whether obvious or not" and wonder if you could point me in the direction of any studies I could read on this point? Many thanks.

User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Nettle » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:44 am

Whether a b itch is mated or not, her body assumes pregnancy after her season, and the consequent hormones are increased exactly as if she was. If you do a Search on side-effects of neutering, you will find lots of information eg from Dr. Christine Zinck., but there are so many that a couple of hours can easily be spent researching. The false pregnancy is poorly understood and often cited as an aberration, so 'scientific study' is light (also no money to be made out of it, and most scientific studies are paid for by drugs companies) but it is completely normal and good breeders will know about it.

Greyhound trainers will not run a b itch until her false pregnancy has completely finished, and given that this loses them a lot of money, underlines the wisdom of respecting the false pregnancy. You might get useful information if you research some greyhound veterinary works.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

Spancoluki
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Spancoluki » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:16 pm

I am familiar with the side effects of neutering, and that is why I wouldn't do it unless it's absolutely necessary and none of my current dogs are, but I didn't think we were discussing that here. It does concern me that you're saying that there is pseudo pregnancy every time a b itch has a season "whether obvious or not", and that ligaments remain slack during this time and for three months after the season. If a b itch comes in season twice a year, this would leave very little time in their lives that anything other than normal exercise would be advisable? Given that neutering is not a good idea either, are you saying that female dogs should do nothing more energetic than go for a regular walk? I've always thought that nature does everything for a reason, and I can't understand why it would put females at risk in this way (and after all, it's often the females in species that are the best hunters). I can't get my head around it. :?

User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Nettle » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:48 am

It's easy to misunderstand when we communicate this way, and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. I directed you to the neuter studies because they mention the bodily changes in more detail, but as there is no profit to be made from studying on-heat b itches scientifically, the false pregnancy is one of those aspects well-known to people who keep b itches and are observant enough to be aware of their bodily changes, but of no interest to science. Research has to be funded and most of the funding comes from drug companies, so they won't make the money available if there's nothing in it for them. Frustrating!

I offer the example of the greyhound trainers because their dogs are supreme athletes, their job is making money by racing, and the trainers would therefore not be strict about avoiding running them during the false pregnancy if it were not real and necessary. But in common with other sighthounds, greyhounds normally only come on heat once a year.

Other working dogs - Search and Rescue are normally neutered, gundogs, sled dogs, sheepdogs work steadily rather than at full speed with twisting and turning, agility and flyball dogs are usually neutered here but I don't know about where you are.

I keep and work lurchers, and it is better not to work them fast until the false pregnancy is over. They can still be exercised, and normal working lurcher exercise is probably a lot more than most pet dogs get. Their job is quite different, but, like wild canids, they only come on heat once a year, which is therefore manageable.
Wild canids catch one dinner, eat it and rest - they don't hunt one dinner after another as they would if they were working the way dedicated pest control dogs do, and a lot of wild canid hunting is not particularly athletic. Also, wild females would be pregnant after each season.


Everyone I know who keeps whole b itches - and that is a lot of people because of the circles I move in - knows that the false pregnancy occurs after every season, sometimes subtly, sometimes obviously. But most pet b itches here are spayed and so relatively few of the pet dog owners know about it. Normal exercise is fine - it's extreme exercise that has to be avoided.

I hope that clarifies matters for you.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

Annabellam
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:26 am

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Annabellam » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:32 am

Great post! Now i know what to expect if i ever get a female dog. Part of the reason that i've been afraid is knowing how to deal when it's the season, great learning thanks. :)

Spancoluki
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Spancoluki » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:44 am

Ok, thanks. So there isn't actually any scientific evidence, it's anecdotal? I do know of some breeders, for example, that still believe they will get a worse hip score when a ***** is in season, although now it is known that is not the case, so that's kind of been a "custom and practice" thing. I am in the UK and a great many people in the circles I move in now keep their male and female dogs entire/intact because of the health benefits, and it is common throughout the agility world where the sport takes place - in most countries these days b itches actually in season are allowed to compete (it's one of the things currently on the agenda with the UK Kennel Club, and other organisations in the UK already permit it). Agility handlers nowadays are much better informed about diet, vaccination, fitness, injury prevention and treatment etc etc, which is why this subject of pseudo pregnancy interests/concerns me. Speaking from my own anecdotal experience, I haven't been aware of my dogs being prone to injury after their season - but then I am extremely careful about what I ask from them ALL the time. Thanks very much for the discussion, it was very interesting.

PS I would have to disagree with sheepherding dogs working "steady". :shock:

User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10721
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: The ladydog and being on heat

Post by Nettle » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:29 pm

Glad to be of help. The more people who know this, the better.

Re: the shepherding dogs - it's all about comparisons - when you see sighthounds in action, every other term goes down a notch - including 'prey drive'. :lol: Shepherding dogs run about and cover a lot of ground but they don't perform the extreme manoeuvres of twisting and turning that a dog chasing small/medium prey will do.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

Post Reply