What do you think of this training tool?

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Appa_valley
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What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:01 pm

It seems like it may be comfortable, velvet lined underneath the armpits. I believe this company also states that a person will still need to train their dog not to pull, which I really like.
This harness might be good for people who need a little extra help in training. What are your thoughts on this one?



Whoops, forgot to put up the link. http://www.wiggleswagswhiskers.com/news ... arness.htm

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GundogGuy
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by GundogGuy » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:44 am

I feel that the chest harness can be counterproductive although they attach to the dog in a kinder way than a traditional leash/collar combo.
I've no experience of these 'contracting' harnesses but I have of the non contracting type. If you think about how you attach a sled to a husky or a cart to a horse you'll see that it's a similar setup to these harnesses. So, in fact you are attaching to the dogs strongest point where it can gain more leverage against the handler while pulling.
Sure, for small dogs, you have the dog by its centre of gravity and can therefore STEER the dog around and it may seem to be helping but put that on a big dog and hey presto... you have a pulling machine.

I had a client once, a very small lady with a very big lab/collie cross (entire male). She'd went to her local pets at home store and asked about how she could stop her dog pulling all the time. They were, at that time, pushing the harnesses and they sold one to her as, I assume they were told to push them on everyone they could.

Anyway... when I went to conduct a 1:1 session with this (as I was told) aggressive dog who pulls the owner off her feet the first thing I did was to observe... This dog was attached to the lady by a harness and pulled from the start, she could hardly keep on her feet with this large dog out front pulling. Then, when we passed a tree, the dog dropped his body weight by crouching down and just dragged his owner to the tree so he could pee... The harness had given him so much more leverage for that....

Anyway, as it turned out, the dog was not aggressive, he'd just missed out on a lot of socialisation and was missing some communication tools... He now walks to heel on or off his standard collar/leash setup and plays happily with other dogs. A nice result for a lovely big guy who was facing a lifetime of leash only exercise... He's by far my favourite clients dog ever :)

BUT, I guess the point I'm making is that although they can be helpful, harnesses can be a hindrance and no form of harness, prong collar, choke chain, halti or other such 'tool' is a substitute for TRAINING your dog to walk properly on or off the leash...

of course, if anyone has a different opinion of these devices, then please share... I'm all for education :D
"Oh what gold there is to find when one is blessed with an open mind" - me, not five minutes ago :-)

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Mattie
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Mattie » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:24 am

Any strap going round the chest like that one can interfer with a dog's breathing and is why I never use a harness with a strap like this.

If you need more control all you need to do is clip an extra lead on, one to the harness one to the collar and you have more control, there is not need to spend money on getting fancy harnesses that say it will give you more control.
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Appa_valley
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:19 pm

Thank you both for your input (and I do realize a tool cannot substitute real training). I already have a harness, just merely curious about your thoughts on this one. Personally, I would rather have a harness because my dog is reactive at this point in time (going to contact a trainer come spring).

Which brings another thought, what if a trainer "requests" that you bring a front clipping harness and this is the only trainer in your area that you feel comfortable with? For example, there are not many trainers who help with reactive dogs in our area so there are not very many to choose from, and I'm the kind of person that needs someone beside to guide me. Oh, but of course there are plenty of trainers here who use e-collars and such.

Anyway, hope I explained myself correctly. :)

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Mattie
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Mattie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:20 am

I have put a photo of Bonnie in a trial/tracking style harness, as you can see the strap goes round the neck not the chest, this doesn't interfer with her breathing, also there is a ring were the strap round the neck joins the one going between her front legs, you can clip a lead to this ring. I have done it in the past so know it can be done.

Clipping a lead to the front can help with some dogs but not all, it depends on the dog, you are then able to steer your dogs. For control I think I would prefer to have the second lead clipped to the collar, if the harness snaps you still have your dog, if both leads are clipped to the harness your dog could escape, if in an enclosed area you could clip both to the harness. I hope that makes sense.


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Appa_valley
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:53 am

Thanks, Mattie. I like the idea for having one leash to the harness and one to the collar, meant to say that in my last post but forgot to. :roll:

I can't remember what they're called, but do you think one of those leashes that has the clip on both ends would work for that?

Also meant to say that we have a Ruffwear Webmaster harness (this is the same harness Horace's Mum has). It's well made so I know it will last awhile and it's very cushiony. But it doesn't have the front ring like yours does, so I would have to also clip to the collar. That idea seems so simple and yet I didn't even think of it, oy. Mattie, I'm so glad you're here, :D .

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Mattie
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Mattie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:08 am

A lead with a clip at both ends is very useful, not only can you clip one to the collar the other to a harness, you can clip it round your waist and leave your hand free. There are lots of uses for these leads.
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Appa_valley
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:15 am

Ok, thanks. Which do you think would be better, nylon or leather? I thought leather would last in the long run, but I don't know if nylon lasts just as long.

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Mattie
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Mattie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:33 am

Doesn't matter, leather doesn't need more care that nylon, you just chuck them in the washing machine, leather needs feeding to care for it properly.
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Nettle
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Nettle » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:04 am

What I would do with the trainer - I would bring along the harness arrangement that suited ME and my dog, and say in a friendly non-confrontational manner "A trainer showed me this and said it was a good system because it does *this* and *this* without causing *that* and it really does work - I'm so pleased with it I knew you'd be interested too". :wink:

That would be if I called in as a hypothetical client not a trainer.
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Appa_valley
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:33 am

Haha, thanks Nettle. Now I haven't contacted the trainer yet, so don't know if that kind of harness is "required." Just wanting to know what to do if that was the case.

Thank you, Mattie. I didn't even know that the nylon leashes could be washed like that!! I will stick with nylon. :)

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Horace's Mum
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Horace's Mum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:32 pm

I think there is a ring in the front of the webmaster, it is just hidden. have a look, I am sure in the past I have clipped a lead to the front of mine. It is covered by a webbing circle but there must be something where all the straps join up!!

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Appa_valley
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Re: What do you think of this training tool?

Post by Appa_valley » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:02 pm

Horace's Mum wrote:I think there is a ring in the front of the webmaster, it is just hidden. have a look, I am sure in the past I have clipped a lead to the front of mine. It is covered by a webbing circle but there must be something where all the straps join up!!
Aha! I never thought of that. I'll have to go take a look at it!

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