invisible fence?

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kmac171
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by kmac171 »

Although I know Victoria dislikes any sort of zap collars, she now has me on her side. With that being said I have to voice my opinion of The Invisible Fence. Although it is true that your dog will receive an electric shock if he/she goes into the "zone", area if you do the proper training when the fence is first installed you should not have a problem. The collar is set to beep if your dog gets to close to the forbidden line. During the training you will pull your dog in the opposite direction as soon as you hear the beep and then reward him. Make no mistake about it, your dog can and will receive a shock once they pass the beep zone, but they would then have to run through approx. 16ft to get to the other side. Common sense would dictate that anyone human or canine would immediately turn around if this were to happen. Invisible Fence is 98% successful and of course your dog may very well may be in the other 2%. I have the fence and my 2 dogs sit on my front lawn and yes they do get extremely excited when people and dogs go by they have NEVER gone through the zone. I myself would rather my dogs get a small shock than getting hit by a car. Anyway it's each person's opinion on this matter, but I just wanted people to know exactly how the fence works. :o
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by emmabeth »

We know how the fence works though - it works by hurting your dog.

It is that simple, and we would rather not hurt our dogs. Not when the available options are - not leaving the dog in a front yard, not leaving the dog in an unfenced yard at all, using a tie out when outside, supervised in an unfenced yard, and even, choosing not to own a dog if you do not have a property suitable for a dogs needs.

Your dogs MUST get a zap to know what the beep means, even if you repeatedly turn them away from the boundary on the beep sounding, when you are not outside and thus not in control, the dog will get a zap and find out what that beep actually means.

And, on top of this issue (and yes if it comes down to it, the choice between a zap and being hit by a car is a no brainer, but it ISNT the only choice at all), the e-fence system does nothing to prevent a dog being attacked by other animals or humans, being thrown poisoned food, being wound up or teased on purpose or accidentally.

All those are reasons I would never leave a dog unsupervised in a front yard, not even a fenced one, let alone an unfenced one (And for the purposes of everyone BUT the dog wearing the collar the e-fenced yard IS unfenced).

So - on balance, is the compromise of not having your dogs out in the front yard, supervising them on a tie out or restricting them to a secure back yard so difficult that causing your dog pain is preferable? For me it isnt.
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forkin14
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by forkin14 »

Back in elementary school I knew someone who had an electric fence for their dog. It was an older dog (older than ten years I think) so they had him outside when the weather was nice, unsupervised. Well, someone ended up dragging the dog outside of the zone while it had the collar on. The dog ended up dying due to the shocks it was receiving and seizures it was having afterwards. Just because the dog may "know" to not go near the edges of the zone because it will get shocked&hurt, there are sick people ANYWHERE that would do this to a dog (a friend of mine told me that back home people are going around throwing poisoned meat onto peoples property that have dogs, so the dogs eat it and die :cry: ) or a neighbor or family member may not know the dog has the collar on and will take it out of the zone, torturing the dog unintentionally.
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Mattie
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Mattie »

kmac171 wrote:Common sense would dictate that anyone human or canine would immediately turn around if this were to happen.
Do dogs have common sense? Dogs are not human, they think differently to humans, they live in the NOW and don't think about consequences of any of their actions.
Invisible Fence is 98% successful and of course your dog may very well may be in the other 2%. I have the fence and my 2 dogs sit on my front lawn and yes they do get extremely excited when people and dogs go by they have NEVER gone through the zone.
Just because your dogs haven't gone through the fencing doesn't mean that other dogs haven't, in fact many have, once out they can't get back in. These fences work for the dogs with a collar on, there are many dogs running round without collars as well as other animals who could get in and attack your dog. You may live in an area were there isn't this risk but many people do have it.
I myself would rather my dogs get a small shock than getting hit by a car. Anyway it's each person's opinion on this matter, but I just wanted people to know exactly how the fence works. :o
I would never put my dogs in a position where they will be shocked or killed by a vehicle because I have good fencing, fencing doesn't have to be expensive, and the cost of these electric fences would virtually pay for a decent fence to keep a dog in.
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GllntKnight
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by GllntKnight »

We've used it for years with no problem it's cheaper than a wooden fence which if you put up one should be buried at least four feet some dog like mine will dig under it and rip it apart at ground level as it eventually rots. one of my dogs keeps losing the receiver collar when they play I think the other dog unsnaps it and yet she has never left the yard but they both dug into their kennel that rests on tiles dug under the tile it is a six x 12 foot chain link six feet high yet once in couldn't figure how to get out had to go open the door for them now we have major repair before be can use it again putting in cement blocks this time. (8"cement blocks into the ground with kennel on top.) We don't walk the dogs they have 4 + acres to run around in and also we run them on a lure course.
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Mattie
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Mattie »

GllntKnight wrote:We've used it for years with no problem it's cheaper than a wooden fence which if you put up one should be buried at least four feet some dog like mine will dig under it and rip it apart at ground level as it eventually rots.
Fencing doesn't have to be wooden, stock fencing will work just as well and for jumpers it often works better because it doesn't have a solid top line which makes it easier for dogs to jump. Having had a dog that dug a hole under a fence big enough for him to run through, it was hidden behind a kennel, it isn't that difficult to stop a dog from digging under a fence. Chicken wire under the soil, can go straight down or placed just under the soil with the soil on top.

I have put a photo up of my fencing, it has concrete posts and a concrete panel at the bottom, neither rots, if the panels go they are easy to replace.
one of my dogs keeps losing the receiver collar when they play I think the other dog unsnaps it and yet she has never left the yard but they both dug into their kennel that rests on tiles dug under the tile it is a six x 12 foot chain link six feet high yet once in couldn't figure how to get out had to go open the door for them now we have major repair before be can use it again putting in cement blocks this time. (8"cement blocks into the ground with kennel on top.) We don't walk the dogs they have 4 + acres to run around in and also we run them on a lure course.
Would you go out of a place if you got an electric shock when you tried? I know I wouldn't and neither will dogs. They can do a lot of harm mentally to a dog, many have to be taken out by car because they are too frightened to walk off the premises, I would hate to think I had done that to one of my dogs.

Your dogs are bored, really bored, if they weren't they wouldn't be digging as much as they are, they are also under exercised, if they weren't they would be digging the way they are, they would be sleeping more. Just because they have 4 + acres to run in doesn't mean that their needs are being met, to me it looks like they are not. Exercise doesn't have to be walks, put an agility course up, that is very good for exercising dogs and will help stop them being so bored.

Apart from all the down sides to electric fences, it is against everything this board believes in, training without pain, electric shocks no matter how low they are give pain. Just because you don't walk your dogs and they are bored, doesn't mean you can recommend shocking them to keep them confined.
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Simba
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Simba »

I am with Mattie on this one 100%. My Vet said the same thing about electric fences. Backyard fun is not the same thing as a long walk. So many people mistake the dog park for exercise and while it is certainly fun for the dog you are not training them to walk with you nicely, pay attention to you and respond to your commands. Walks are not only for the physical exercise. They are an important training tool. Listen to me, you would think my dog was trained well. I am working on it.
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Wicket
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Wicket »

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Nettle
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Nettle »

Apologies to Wicket - I'm not shooting the messenger - but that's rubbish. As it says, this will only work while you are there in the yard - and in that case, a normal recall will work just as well or as badly, because if the incentive to leave the yard is stronger than the recall or clicker training - the dog will leave. It is very irresponsible of the author (not you, Wicket) to even suggest that this is a good idea, because so many people will latch onto the clicker part and not the FACT that you can't train a dog when you aren't there. And more dogs will be hurt or lost or die as a result.

Incentives include being attacked by dogs straying into the yard or seeing wildlife that needs chasing pass by.

There is nothing better than a secure fence. It doesn't hurt the dog, and it needn't be expensive.
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Gwenhwyfair
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Gwenhwyfair »

*whoops- on edit* I see the issue of stray dogs being able to enter the yard has been addressed.

sorry for the repeat.
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GllntKnight
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by GllntKnight »

I still stand by invisible fence, my dogs are hunters, chicken wire won't doit would be dug up and pulled out just like the rotted wood on the horse stalls which they ripped off and dug in to get at the mice rats or what ever. My previous rescue removed the chicken wire that was buried then tore the wall off the pen and tried to kill the goose this is what Jrt's do they are working dogs. I was informed and have read that when you have this type of dog you can not have small children, ducks geese chickens etc or cats as they will kill and this is just what the JRTCA is promoting to keep them as a working dog not like the AKC registered Parsons Russell which is just for show we show for racing gtg barn hunt trail and locate agility lure course etc. And I do have an Agility course besides a lure course so they are not digging out of bordom they dig as that is what they do if you don't want a dog that does this then don't get a JRT.
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GllntKnight
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by GllntKnight »

PS As a matter of fact years ago when I was looking for a JRT I saw a local ad and called and asked why this women was getting rid of a 6 month old JRT and her reply was because he is digging up my husbands garden so I told her this is what they do didn't you do your research before you got the dog or you just got it as it was cute. She hung up on me. That is the problem with most people they don't do the research or spay and neuter their dogs that's why the shelters are overcrowded.
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue. ~Author Unknown

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Mattie
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Mattie »

GllntKnight wrote:I still stand by invisible fence, my dogs are hunters, chicken wire won't doit would be dug up and pulled out just like the rotted wood on the horse stalls which they ripped off and dug in to get at the mice rats or what ever.
That depends on how the chicken wire is put in, if only a couple of inches then yes it can be dug up, it needs to be at least 6ins underground, preferably more.
My previous rescue removed the chicken wire that was buried then tore the wall off the pen and tried to kill the goose this is what Jrt's do they are working dogs.


This is not what well trained working JRTs do, they can be taught not to go for livestock.
I was informed and have read that when you have this type of dog you can not have small children, ducks geese chickens etc or cats as they will kill and this is just what the JRTCA is promoting to keep them as a working dog not like the AKC registered Parsons Russell which is just for show we show for racing gtg barn hunt trail and locate agility lure course etc.


I can take you to a farm now that has working JRTs, they are very good with children, especially disabled children, they used to do riding for disabled there, the ducks, chickens and geese are free in the yard with the JRTs, and the cats curl up and sleep with them. In fact, when a cat has kittens at the same time as a JRT has pups, they are in the same box and feed both.

These are working dogs, they work on the farm keeping down the vermin and have been used by the local hunt in the past.

There is no need for fencing these dogs in either because their basic needs are being met and they don't feel the need to run off.
And I do have an Agility course besides a lure course so they are not digging out of bordom they dig as that is what they do if you don't want a dog that does this then don't get a JRT.
Many dogs dig not just JRTs, it is up to us to give them something to dig that doesn't damage anything or help them escape. I have had a dog that dug such a big hole under the fence, it was behind a big kennel and couldn't be seen, I blocked it off and gave him somewhere were he could did which solved the problem.

JRTs are wonderful dogs, they make really good pets but like all dogs they need to be taught what is acceptable to us and what isn't.
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Nettle
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Re: invisible fence?

Post by Nettle »

Yep, you'll be pleasantly surprised to find how trainable JRTs are.

I've kept working terriers for years, and they have to be safe with livestock, poultry etc. They are only allowed to kill vermin. Down to one now, and she is safe with everything except those animals it is her job to pursue. Terriers are much easier to train than many breeds.

Oh, and my dogs are confined behind a wire fence. Stronger than chicken wire, though.
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