Disappointed

[pro-ecollar]

I came on this board, have been respectful, honest, and had a free exchange of thought. I have not had a harsh confrontation with anyone, yet two of the threads have been locked? Why?

Paul Cantrell

[ckranz]

The only way for the forum to continue to help people in this way, however, is to ensure that we all stick to one philosophy-related rule for participation here: Stick to reward-based, positive reinforcement training theories! While I recognize that there are those who still use and recommend aversive, dominance-based theories, this is not the place for them. Most trainers and behaviorists today agree that training a dog using dominance causes the dog to respond out of fear, which results in psychological problems for the dog, does not identify or solve the root problem, and ultimately damages the owner-dog relationship.

Under the methods section VS posted this as guildlines for the forum. The use of devices like chokes prongs and e-collars clearly are outside of the forum rules and that is why those threads were locked.

[pro-ecollar]

I think what that should say is the "miss-use" of those devices is outside the bounds or goals of this forum. There is no proof, just opinion, that when used the tools are a source of fear resulting in problems. I thought that is what the discussion was surrounding. I guess that is where I'm a bit confused. The condemnation of certain tools, while at the same time promoting the use of others is inconsistant. How is using a muzzle any less dominant, abusive or resulant in psychological issues? Yet that was demonstrated on the show I watched that sparked me to come here. I've raised and training lord only knows how many dogs in the past 20 years and when brought from the ground up properly, using the tools correctly they are as happy, well trained and mentally stable as any dog could be. On top of that the dogs consistantly are happy to see those tools come out as it means its time to train. I get the impression that free thought and discussion are not allowed here, that we are being asked to blindly accept a theory without question? I learned a long time ago that there is always something to learn when training dogs. Every single day I learn something new, and every dog teaches me something new. To quit learning is to limit yourself. In reading through the threads here I have jotted down a couple of things to try with certain dogs. When people close their minds though and refuse to consider alternative methods, well they're frankly not a very good trainer. Just my 02.

Paul

[emmabeth]

Paul - it is clearly explained that this is not the place to advocate the use of e-collars or other punishment/aversive based methods or tools.

This is not a free discussion forum for everyone to discuss everything, if you came here purely to discuss how wonderful Britney Spears is or talk about how to fix cars I would lock and delete those threads as well.

This is a specific forum, with a specific subject which is Victoria and her shows/books etc and positive, reward based dog training.

There are places where you are more than welcome to go and discuss the potential pros and cons of using e-collars or other aversive techniques. This is not it.

The very fact that you CHOSE the username 'pro-ecollars' makes it evident from the very start that you do not wish to abide by the rules and ethos of this forum.

If youd like to change your username and come and join in various discussions or, as many of us do, spend some time helping people out with their dog related problems without resorting to recommending aversives you are more than welcome to do so.

If you wish to do that can I suggest you pm BoardHost and request your current account be deleted and you be allowed to open a new one in another name.

If you have a problem with the way this board is run, either with my moderation decisions or with the rules and guidelines again either pm me privately or pm BoardHost.