Martingale?

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BellaPuppy
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Martingale?

Post by BellaPuppy » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:36 pm

Hello,

I've been wondering what the opinions are on Martingale collars and what the difference is between it and choke collars.

Thanks,
Sara

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Wes
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Re: Martingale?

Post by Wes » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:58 pm

I use martingales with my boys. If fitted properly, the collar should just be snug when pulled tight, preventing the dog from backing out of the collar. It should NEVER be tight enough to choke. A choke chain doesn't have that "stop" built into it, and will continue to tighten and choke the dog. Both my boys have narrow heads and can back easily out of regular collars (one of them can get out of every harness I've tried on him too!), so that's why they have martingales.

Swanny1790
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Re: Martingale?

Post by Swanny1790 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:11 am

Wes wrote:the collar should just be snug when pulled tight, preventing the dog from backing out of the collar.
As Wes pointed out, the entire purpose of the limited slip (Martingale) collar is to prevent the dog from slipping his or her collar, not to create discomfort or pain. I have a couple of 'pin heads' who easily slip out of regular collars, including a rescued Canadian Eskimo Dog who is a notorious scrapper requiring very careful management. I use limited slip collars on them, it's a very valuable option in that setting. I'm sure that in Innoko's case, it has prevented some potentially nasty fights.

I don't regard it so much as a training tool so much as a management tool.
"Once infected with the mushing virus, there is no cure. There is only trail." - Sven Engholm

doggiedad
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Re: Martingale?

Post by doggiedad » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:07 pm

don't rely on a certain collar or leash. train your dog.

gwd
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Re: Martingale?

Post by gwd » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:22 pm

i use a martingale as i know there is no way they're going to slip out if it. i have their regular snap collars adjusted on the big side because i have a coated breed, we try and avoid collar creases in the coat on the neck.
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telpinaro
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Re: Martingale?

Post by telpinaro » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:27 pm

I've used both choke collars and martingales, and I do like the martingales a lot. (No, I did not use choke collars to "train" or pull them a lot... They were used with show dogs who had good leash manners, and the collars were the kind they needed to use in shows.)

Martingales are actually better than regular collars. In a regular collar if a dog pulls, it's pulling straight on it's windpipe. In a martingale, when properly adjusted, it tightens around the whole neck, allowing the dog to tense it's neck muscles and keep pressure even around its entire neck and much less on the delicate trachea.

And yes, obviously train your dog to walk on a leash properly. But really, you never know what could happen. Would you rather walk your dog with a collar that they can't get out of, or do you want to trust that there will NEVER be something that will cause your dog to slip a collar and run off?

As a side note... I love dog halters! No pulling, easy, gentle training, and as long as you keep an eye on them and make sure they don't paw it off, quite safe from slipping. Plus, my 5-yr old can successfully walk our dog who can pull quite strongly! This is my favorite: http://www.amazon.com/Holt-Walking-Head ... ead+collar

MPbandmom
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Re: Martingale?

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:47 am

I have been giving some consideration to a martingale collar for Sky in certain situations but have some questions on them. They require precise adjustment and the adjustment is a slide type thing. I have a horrible track record for such types of adjustments staying in place with Sky. I also really don't like the idea of anything tightening on her neck, or really of attaching a leash to a collar on her neck because she has such a strong choke reflex.

A little detail why I am considering this. Yesterday I took her to a lure coursing practice run. Today there is a CAT event at the same location. Sky loves to chase the lure, perhaps a bit overly obsessively so. While she is no sighthound, she does run beautifully after the lure. I am reasonably certain it would be possible to title her in lure coursing with the AKC CAT program.

She is also a rather accomplished escape artist as far as harnesses are concerned. Her pulling harnesses both have belly bands to prevent her from backing out. Her regular everyday harness is not so equipped. I started her out on her regular harness thinking if necessary, I could just switch harnesses on her. I didn't think to bring the other harness out of the van with me. For the most part, I had her in the van waiting for her turn because she was getting over stimulated by all of the goings on around the area. While we were "on deck," I alternated between hiding behind a car and walking through a gate to have her facing the opposite direction of the lure activity, or hidden visually from it. At one point, she pulled me down when she got a little glimpse of the lure. Since I wasn't sure how long we would be on deck and didn't feel I had time to return to the van. I hooked her double ended lead to both collar and harness and tightened up on her collar because it was never put on in the first place to be a restraint.

This system worked albeit barely, until it was her turn to run. I took her lead off and was holding her by her harness, and she promptly backed out of her harness. So, then I was holding her by her collar. It is my understanding that in a CAT the most that a dog can be wearing is a collar anyway, so I made no effort to get the harness back on her. She did her run and then I quickly put the lead back on her collar and tried to get away from the course as quickly as possible to get back to the van. During her run, someone had placed a chain on the gate that I had anticipated escaping through. The only other way out was back down the course with limited visual blocks which would likely be disasterous from my perspective. There was a lady trying to get the chain off of the gate, so I waited.

I was still in a position where Sky should have been hidden from the lure. Just as the lady trying to open the gate commented that it wasn't nearly as easy as it looked, the lure started running. I think it was the sound that set Sky off. I had her collar adjusted tightly enough that she really had to work at getting out of it, but she was quite determined in her efforts. Usually when she starts to back out of a regular harness, I can tell her uh uh and she will stop immediately. That didn't work with the lure running. I keep going over it and thinking, maybe I should have tried to tackle her, but trying to hang onto her without a harness or anything, didn't really seem like a viable option at the time, and honestly doesn't seem like a particularly viable option now. It just would have maybe been more of a demonstration on my part of trying everything possible to keep her contained?

Would a martingale have been effective in this case to keep her on lead, or would her jerking have just caused the adjustment to slip and loosen the collar enough for her to still get out of it?

Some of the Sammy people thought I should still bring her for the CAT because she obviously runs so well. One lady even offered her husband up as someone to handle her for the event. He was having some difficulty hanging onto his samoyed when it was her turn to run. Plus just having a different hand on the lead wasn't going to stop the escape artistry on Sky's part. I opted to pass on the CAT. It just isn't worth it in my opinion. No dog that is running alone should suddenly find himself/herself being persued by a run away dog. I attribute my passing on the CAT to the way the course was managed as much as to Sky's escape artistry. Perhaps it is standard practice to run dogs with other dogs watching, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Most of the other dogs that were watching were barking like crazy and straining at their leashes to go chase too. It just seemed that none of them were aware of the option to turn around and back out of that which was holding them back.

Here is a video from Sky's legitimate run. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC0AOF_O ... e=youtu.be
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

Erica
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Re: Martingale?

Post by Erica » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:58 am

You could use a martingale as backup for her harness. I'm looking for a detailed guide I've seen before, but DINOS has a good guide on it here. That way she's not primarily attached to the collar, but in emergencies you have her restrained.

Edit: Here is the first one I was looking for!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

MPbandmom
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Re: Martingale?

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:56 pm

Thanks Erica!

I have been watching a few lure coursing videos on u-tube and it is looking like the set up of yesterday is pretty much the norm. That being the case, I don't see me taking Sky to many events that involve lure coursing, which is a shame since she so enjoys it and doesn't very often have an opportunity to tear around a large field chasing prey.

As far as I can tell, the only way to be able to take her would be to be able to have her crated in the van until it is her turn to run and then get her back into the crate before the next one runs. Otherwise, even if I do manage to come up with a way to avoid her getting out of harness/collar, it doesn't mean that I will be able to hold onto her, or that she won't just take off after the lure dragging me behind. I think the only way to have her safely around lure coursing, is to have her contained in a manner that securely and thoroughly blocks her vision of the lure until it is her turn.

I do like the idea of perhaps a martingale collar and the caribner back up for their regular harnesses for walks. While Sky is the greater escape risk, she is social enough that I don't worry terribly about her getting loose. (unless at a lure coursing event of course :oops: ) Sirius is less likely to back out of a harness, but does sometimes get inspired by Sky. Sirius has also been known to slip a collar given half a chance. Because of her issues, this is a much more worriesome prospect to me. So, I think I will do some searching for martingale collars for the dogs.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

MPbandmom
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Re: Martingale?

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:12 pm

So, I'm looking at martingale collars online and I'm not liking what I am reading about them. The whole emphasis seems to be on punishing/"correcting" the dog. Yet, I know they are recommended on here as a safety tool. Here is what I am wondering at this point? The collars state that they reduce the likelyhood of the dog pulling out of their collar. That they need to be adjusted snugly enough to stay at the top of the neck. I know it is possible to put a collar tightly enough on Sky that she doesn't back out of it. As hard as she had to jerk to get out of her collar at the lure coursing event, I must have had it close to that kind of tightness. Would I be better off just going with belly bands on harnesses and forgetting about possibly trying to put a CAT on Sky?

I like the concept that the martingale would sit more loosley on the dog's neck than a regular collar adjusted to prevent backing out of. I'm not sure how willling the dogs would be to have something that snug slipped over their heads, since they tend to be somewhat wary of having the harnesses and their backpacks put on over their heads. I guess I need to think on this some more. Maybe if I had the martingale collar hooked to the harness with the caribiner, I could kind of put them both on at the same time? If the collar has to be up by their head, how large of a carbiner would I have to get to then hook the collar to a front ring on a harness, or would it be better to come up with an alternative attachment method that maybe would then hook to the back ring of the harness?

Thoughts and ideas?
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

gwd
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Re: Martingale?

Post by gwd » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:28 pm

i got a new martingale for boy dog today. i don't like the design nearly as well as my favorite martingale (premire) i like the quick snap feature as you can snap it on just as you would a regular collar

https://www.premier.com/store/Products. ... d=1&pid=88

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the new one i got today i specifically got because i wanted it to be different than the one i use for agility (the one above is my agility collar) in the past i've used a traditional choke chain for obedience. i didn't use it for corrections but i wanted the slight jingle it makes to help the dog differentiate between the breed ring and the obedience ring. .........i thought i still had one....and i did, but setters have a much narrower head than and it wouldn't fit boy dog........so off to the store.

i got this:

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i'm hoping that the chain part will make a little jingle ..........now he has a separate (different) collar for our foray into the obedience ring.

i know it sounds silly but i do think that they pick up on the different leashes and different collars for different expectations. ......i also picked up a 4 foot new leather lead ......again, trying to be clear to him which rules to follow depending on how he's dressed!

i soaked the new lead in leather conditioner trying to soften it up.......
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MPbandmom
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Re: Martingale?

Post by MPbandmom » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:05 am

I just got the basic cloth slip on martingale. I am wondering about the adjustment though. They didn't really seem to know at the store. Sky was excited and panting as usual. With the adjustment at a point, when pulled on, that I would classify as just as tight as her collar had been at the lure coursing event and thus not secure in my opinion; Sky continued panting away when the collar was tightened. The people at the store were certain she would not be able to slip out of the collar at this adjustment. I guess they haven't seen a dog really desparate to get out of a collar. :lol:

Adjusted slightly tighter and when pulled, her mouth clamped shut and she seemed to stop breathing. :shock: So, now I'm really not quite sure what to do with this collar. She didn't act like she was choked after it was released. There was no coughing or hacking, she just went back to panting as usual. Maybe that is the way it should be adjusted? Anything less and the collar doesn't seem any more secure than her regular collar.

So far, I haven't tried walking her with the martingale and harness and biner because I am unsure about the collar. I did put the biner on Sirius this morning with her regular collar and harness as storms are predicted and I thought a little added security might be in order just in case it should thunder. Now I am kind of whishing I had thought to get two binders. Both dog's necks are of similar size and I usually take them on special outings separately, so I think we can otherwise share the martingale.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

Sarah83
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Re: Martingale?

Post by Sarah83 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:44 am

I use a half check/martingale (what is the difference? People tell me there is one but...) and I have mine adjusted so it sits about as tight as a regular collar when unchecked but when the chain tightens it is tight enough that it's not going to be slipped easily. It's not tight enough to choke though. Nor do I use it for correcting. I prefer the ones with a chain, just prefer how they look for some reason.

Perhaps Sky simply didn't like the tightening? The tightening is going to be more obvious if the collar is more snug to start with. It's not seemed to bother any of mine and if you're only using it for security/back up in case she slips her harness then it's not really going to be an issue.

DianeLDL
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Re: Martingale?

Post by DianeLDL » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:49 am

I have been considering a Martingale collar. My chihuahua mix has a head that is about the same as his neck size.

Twice he has slipped out of his regular collar which for small dogs is only 1/2 inch which I think may be too skinny. He hates his harness just as he hates any type of clothes and considering he is short haired so in the winter he gets wrapped in blankets. (Sandy actually loves to sleep with his whole body including his head under his blanket.)

Is a martingale collar good for a small dog like a chihuahua? We believe he is a mix with Italian greyhound which is another breed that will slip out of a regular collar. What type would I need if I did have a martingale collar for him. He also hates anything slipped over his head. I sew and have been planning on making him a collar 3/4 in., and have found a pattern for making a martingale.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Diane
Sandy, Chihuahua mix b. 12/20/09

Erica
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Re: Martingale?

Post by Erica » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:51 am

You could make him a martingale collar with a buckle as well. That way you don't have to slip it over his head. I have seen plastic buckles of various sizes (and colors!) at craft stores recently, with the paracord supplies.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

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