16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Discussion of useful training and pet care tools.

Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
shelley80
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:11 pm
Location: Devon

16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by shelley80 »

Hello,

I am really looking for any advice we can get.

We have a new addition to our family 'a puppy' :D . Archie is now 16 weeks old and has been with us for 5 weeks he is a mongrel. His mum was a manchester terrior cross and his dad a parsons russell.

He seems to have formed a fairly good relationship with our 6 year old bengal cat, but still chases her around trying to mount her and gets a bit nippy with her. Our 2 year old savannah cat doesn't like him at all and the majority of the time will run, but if he doesn't Archie will nip at him which makes him run. If he doesn't run at all the cat usually falls to the floor as if he is submitting but this seems to make Archie more excited and it ends up in a chase.

We shout Archies name and NO! but he doesn't respond.

Does anyone have any useful training tips? All that we have found so far advises us to crate the puppy, use a muzzle, leash or a shock collar. A shock collar is out of the question!

Thanks in advance
Shelley & Jody
abbyneo
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Illinois

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by abbyneo »

Hi there,
This may not seem helpful, but I also live with a puppy (9 months old) and a kitten (1 year old) who have a love/hate relationship. I've tried time-outs, "no"s, and rewarding the pup when she plays nicely with the cat, etc, but for me it seems easier to just keep a very close eye on them instead of trying to get Neo to stay away from the cat all the time. We have baby gates up all over so the cat always has somewhere to go to get away from the dog. I honestly don't know what we did before we had the gates up. The cat has his own room where only he can slide under the gate, and he can always slide through to get away from the dog if she gets too rough.

I'm sure someone else will be along to give you some REAL advice, but for me, it works to just watch them. As Neo's getting older she's becoming much less interested in the cat. He can even walk by now without her getting up... :lol:
Ari_RR
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:07 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by Ari_RR »

Same here. We haven't found a method or a way (or perhaps patience?) to train our hound not to chase the cat. But we do manage the environment, primarily with doggie barriers which have cat doors.

At fist the cat-girl was terrified of the puppy, then curious.. While the dog-boy was very much into chasing her..
Then the cat-girl figured out that if she moves slow, she is much less likely to be chased..
Then she figured out that she is smaller and smarter, so she can plan an escape (e.g. run under the chair, then squeeze between the sofa and the wall, where our 90 lbs dog-boy cannot fit, then through the cat door in the barrier, then upstairs and there she is safe :lol: )
Then a bit of a set back for the cat when the dog-boy (being a lion hunter himself) figured that in order to catch the cat, he should not run after her, instead he should cut straight to the barrier and just wait for her there..
But then, something really changed, and while sometimes he still chases her, most of the time he is actually very gentle and affectionate towards her, and she acts like a real floozy with him, clearly enjoying the attention. First thing in the morning, when he wakes up, he gives his humans a kiss with his nose, then runs over to the cat, and she jumps down from the top of her post where she sleeps and they meet and greet each other with kisses and sniffing and all.

That said, barriers remain in place, and their interactions are supervised... With cats and dogs you just never know for sure.
abbyneo
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Illinois

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by abbyneo »

Ari I was hoping that you'd chime in also, I know you have experience with cats and dogs too. I also thought of something else that I observed just now when Neo was sitting on the floor. Sometimes diversion with an exciting toy or in Neo's case, paper, works. If she chases after the cat, sometimes it works to throw some paper at her to tear up or get out a really exciting toy instead, but on the same token there's not a whole lot that can compete with a real-live cat as a toy, :lol:
Ari_RR
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:07 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by Ari_RR »

Nothing worked for us, as far as being more attractive then chasing a live cat :lol:
But somehow they worked it out... We didn't do anything of real value or substance other then keeping an eye, as far as I can tell.

But in all fairness, it's easier with Ari and Neo - ridgebacks, even if chasing and catching a cat, are unlikely to harm the cat, unless by accident. They probably see cats as interesting toys. Whenever Ari managed to catch her, he would just stand in amazement towering over her - "now what do I do with it?!?!"

And I think she quickly figured it out, that there is no real danger there.

But terriers or terrier mixes - that could be a different ball game, stakes may be higher, those guys may see a cat as prey, not as a toy, and take the approach of kill first ask questions later...
User avatar
minkee
Posts: 2034
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:58 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by minkee »

A cat falling to the floor PROBABLY means that it sees the pup as harmless at the moment, and even a potential playmate. My cats do this when they want to play with each other in a lazy kind of way. So, without seeing exactly what's going on, I think the flopping over could be a good sign as far as your cat goes - perhaps he's getting used to the idea of the puppy - if it is infact playing out like I see it in my head! If he was REALLY worried he'd stay totally out of sight, or get his claws out.

However, of course you don't want your pup to continue the way he's going, you don't want him to learn that chasing the cat is EVER fun. Maybe a little bit late! But lets do what we can now :D

First of all you'll want to teach a 'positive interrupter'. When you shout NO! it means precisely nothing to Archie :) What you want to do is teach a noise that cuts through his excitement and makes him think "BOY something fun is about to happen right over there where Mum / Dad is!" Here's a tutorial on how you can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvPaqMZyo8

Now, you don't want to use this when he IS chasing, because he literally won't be able to hear it - all his senses will be fully focused on the cat. What you want to do is use it when you see his ears perk up and start thinking about the cat. Do you know the look? I certainly do with mine! She thinks she's the Cat Cop :D

I would strongly, STRONGLY suggest you couple this with putting him on a training lead on a harness for the whole time he's around the cat. Prevention is going to be a really strong factor here - if he NEVER gets to chase the cat, it's NEVER fun, it's NEVER rewarding. If he DOES get to chase the cat he's only going to get better at it and find it more and more fun! This won't be forever, but if you lay some really strong groundwork here, it will stick for life and the time invested now will pay dividends later :) I let my puppy 'play' with my little blue cat, as she's a very motherly cat and always sought out my puppy.... but now the puppy just thinks that she's the greatest elicit toy. I really wish I'd spent more time and effort separating them, so that my puppy had not learned this behaviour, because now I cannot leave them alone together.

Having a house line on can also help diffuse other puppy behaviours, eg. it makes it easy to pick up the lead and move your pup away from whatever naughtiness he's getting into without having to have any confrontation. And, knowing puppies, there's a lot of naughtiness to get upto :D

Finally, make sure you've got all the obvious things in place... eg. places that the cat can be out the way. Mine have a tall cat tree, and they've got shelves especially for them on my bookcase, little dens with only enough room for the little blue cat to get into, and get their food ontop of it out the way, so it's not tempting for the dog to get to their food. The latter part prevents having a flashpoint for your two creatures too :) You can also install baby gates that the cat can get over but puppy can't (assuming it's an agile younger cat!)

Hope this helps.

[edit] I forgot to add! It is also REALLY REALLY important to make sure your pup has loads of mental stimulation. This is probably the most important thing! If he's chasing the cat he's making his own fun. If he's whacked out from playing games and puzzles with you all day long he doesn't have to make his own fun :) See our 'exercise the mind' thread for some great ideas that don't necessarily mean you have to be playing WITH him (eg boxes with food in for him to puzzle out) and also it's a great idea to take up clicker training, it's fun for both of you.
WufWuf
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 am

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by WufWuf »

Just to note that cats will often drop to free up all 5 of their very pointy weapons (1 mouth and 4 sets of claws). This would be a clear message to another cat that they would hurt them to defend themselves (other body language would distinguish this from play such as ear position, eye shape, tail position/movement). Dogs will often misread this as a submission until they get used to cat communication.
Operant conditioning rocks but classical conditioning rules
Maxy24
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:08 pm
Location: MA, USA

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by Maxy24 »

This is a huge problem we had with Tucker. It is not completely gone but it is amazingly better. There was a time where my smaller cat could literally not touch the ground without Tucker being all over him. Now he only really chases them if they do something like play or fight with each other and that has a lot to do with him having poor self control and a high prey drive. If we had him drag a leash we could probably do something about that too but for now I am working on his self control. We basically did a lot of body blocking and removal, trying to use kitties as play things fails every time because you come in and stop it. You don't have to punish, just prevent it from being fun. Having the dog drag a light leash would be very helpful, you don't want him associating you taking his collar or picking him up with anything negative. I didn't always remove him either, blocking worked fine if he hadn't gotten too hyped up and the cat wasn't running. I'd step in his way until he looked at me, then would get out of his way. If he went back to the cat I'd block again, eventually he'd give up. At first I wanted him and Willie (cat) to be able to play nicely, because sometimes Willie enjoyed it, so I'd stand there and watch and only step in when things got to be too much or when Willie tried to bail but it wasn't clear enough for Tucker, he didn't make any progress at all, he didn't understand what was okay and what wasn't. So I started not allowing any play at all and things started getting better. Now Willie is quite fond of Tucker, rubs all over him, it's much better. Step in right away, you don't want to allow him to have fun chasing/harassing the cats. I would also be sure to separate them when you are not home or are asleep so that he cannot rehearse the behavior. You dog is young so the habit shouldn't be too ingrained yet, work on it now. Also be aware you got yourself a terrier and sometimes they just can't be trusted with cats ever because of their high prey drive. So be vigilant and work on self control games, especially in the presence of moving things like dragging a tug toy, throwing a ball, using a flirt pole or cat toy, etc.

Give the cats a place to escape to so that they don't become overly stressed, you don't want them to be miserable and you don't want them to start having behavior problems of their own. They need to feel safe.
agilitymad
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:00 am

Re: 16 week old puppy chasing resident cats

Post by agilitymad »

My terrier has lived with my cats from day one and has been fine until now. She is fine with one of the cats as he doesn't run but the female that loves her to bit, she is horrible too. She humps her chases her and grabs at her. Marble (the cat) puts up with this and comes back to more. When Brillo is sleepy marble cuddles up to her and licks her on the head Brillo loves this lol. Its very cute to see :)
Post Reply