arrhhh i missed the show tonight which detailed how to help solve separation anxiety, which my 18month dog has. he's still ripping up stuff within the house (usually paper items), and often but not always will bark when we leave.
how can we make this better for him? we have another dog who is fine and settles down to sleep when we are out.
separation anxiety
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
i would have liked more detail on this myself as we have one dog who doesnt settle well when we go out - she was handed back to rescue with severe SA but since we have had her she hasnt actually chewed anything of importance - her fav is to de-stuff her duvet so now she gets left with just a blanket.
We do the whole get coat on & sit around for a while before going out but she is still stressy if she knows she is not coming
We have found the only thing that guarantees she will relax when we are out if we have totally knackered her out first!! we go to the field & throw ball untill she is puffing then take her home & she will generally settle for about 2 hrs - if we are longer than that we will find her upstairs in bedrooms (despite stairgates) & all cushions etc pulled off sofa - she has ripped papers but we do leave them for her to do that - rather that than my nice cushions!
We also leave a stuffed kong - she loves marmite smeared in it
I will NOT CRATE as she was crated in last house & as nothing drastic is happening here I would rather try & deal with problem than cover up by outtin gher in crate
our other dog also is fine - could be left all day if necc he just sleeps
We do the whole get coat on & sit around for a while before going out but she is still stressy if she knows she is not coming
We have found the only thing that guarantees she will relax when we are out if we have totally knackered her out first!! we go to the field & throw ball untill she is puffing then take her home & she will generally settle for about 2 hrs - if we are longer than that we will find her upstairs in bedrooms (despite stairgates) & all cushions etc pulled off sofa - she has ripped papers but we do leave them for her to do that - rather that than my nice cushions!
We also leave a stuffed kong - she loves marmite smeared in it
I will NOT CRATE as she was crated in last house & as nothing drastic is happening here I would rather try & deal with problem than cover up by outtin gher in crate
our other dog also is fine - could be left all day if necc he just sleeps
Can you give us some more detail?
How much exercise and what form of exercise does he get?
(by this i mean say '25 minutes free running am and pm' or " 30 minutes lead walking, 20 minutes running and three 10 minute training sessions" etc)
What do you do when you leave and then when you come in again?
What do you do when you come in and there is a mess?
Does he enjoy ripping and shredding things when you are there?
What is he fed?
There could be a number of things going on, it could be his way of dealing with the stress of you leaving him, it could be that ripping stuff up is a fun game that he isnt allowed to do normally, he could have too much energy (both mentally and physically).
When you are home, is he confident and independant or is he needy adn attention seeking?
If he is quite a needy dog, you could (along side other things, its rarely one single thing that changes how a dog deals with life), try teaching him that , at times, you WONT be available for him to cling to.
The way id do this is by leaving him a visual sign that No Attention will be given - this can be anything really, something big and obvious works best, so a big item placed where the dog can see it, a sign hung on the door where the dog can see it.
In my house, me sitting at the computer is a visual cue that i wont be playing or handing out attention and dogs must wait until im done.
You will be giving your dogs visual cues to what is abotu to happen all the time so this one isnt really any different its just that you will conciously use it in a slightly different way.
First off, stick your mat or box or sign up for just five minutes and ignore the dog, making sure he has seen the 'cue'.
Do this at different times and when he is in different places so that he will generalise that its the sign that means he will get no attention , not what you are doing, where you are sat or what you are wearing (so you could use this with the putting on the coat and picking up keys and then sitting back down again method).
With plenty of practice (and id limit going out just now and i would NOT use the cue for going out properly until you have built up to it gradually), he will come to associate the sign to mean nothing fun is happening, irrsepective of what you do, and eventually, irrespective of whehter you are THERE or not (so build it up to going out of the room adn shutting the door between you and the dog, going upstairs, going into the garden, then out the front door....)
This alone isnt enough, its teaching him that sometimes, he has to be alone and deal with it - if he does find that stressful it may well be that he then goes on to performing the behaviours he does when you are out, so try to prevent him having access to things you dont want chewed, ignore barking.
When you end the 'no attention' period, reward him nicely with a bit of praise but dont go mad, you dont want him to spend the whole time you are not interacting wtih him, hoping and anticipating that interaction, thats stressful too.
If he is bored or bouncy, then look to his exercise and training and games, and also his food - some dog foods are like rocket fuel and its certainly nota 'one brand fits all' thing.
You could try to make you going out a cue for somethign NICE to happen, so if you use the visual cue method, put out the cue AND say a kong wtih some nice smelly food in it, or an interactive toy (check out the IQube and Intellibone products on Training Lines website http://www.traininglines.org.uk/), or provide him WITH a safe parcel of newspaper and the odd treat to rip up if he enjoys that.
If he knows that from time to time he will be expected to amuse himself and you provide him with fun things that he ONLY gets at those times, AND you make sure his food isnt fuelling it and his normal exercise isnt fuelling it, you should be onto a winner.
It DOES take time though and a lot of patience and effort.
Em
How much exercise and what form of exercise does he get?
(by this i mean say '25 minutes free running am and pm' or " 30 minutes lead walking, 20 minutes running and three 10 minute training sessions" etc)
What do you do when you leave and then when you come in again?
What do you do when you come in and there is a mess?
Does he enjoy ripping and shredding things when you are there?
What is he fed?
There could be a number of things going on, it could be his way of dealing with the stress of you leaving him, it could be that ripping stuff up is a fun game that he isnt allowed to do normally, he could have too much energy (both mentally and physically).
When you are home, is he confident and independant or is he needy adn attention seeking?
If he is quite a needy dog, you could (along side other things, its rarely one single thing that changes how a dog deals with life), try teaching him that , at times, you WONT be available for him to cling to.
The way id do this is by leaving him a visual sign that No Attention will be given - this can be anything really, something big and obvious works best, so a big item placed where the dog can see it, a sign hung on the door where the dog can see it.
In my house, me sitting at the computer is a visual cue that i wont be playing or handing out attention and dogs must wait until im done.
You will be giving your dogs visual cues to what is abotu to happen all the time so this one isnt really any different its just that you will conciously use it in a slightly different way.
First off, stick your mat or box or sign up for just five minutes and ignore the dog, making sure he has seen the 'cue'.
Do this at different times and when he is in different places so that he will generalise that its the sign that means he will get no attention , not what you are doing, where you are sat or what you are wearing (so you could use this with the putting on the coat and picking up keys and then sitting back down again method).
With plenty of practice (and id limit going out just now and i would NOT use the cue for going out properly until you have built up to it gradually), he will come to associate the sign to mean nothing fun is happening, irrsepective of what you do, and eventually, irrespective of whehter you are THERE or not (so build it up to going out of the room adn shutting the door between you and the dog, going upstairs, going into the garden, then out the front door....)
This alone isnt enough, its teaching him that sometimes, he has to be alone and deal with it - if he does find that stressful it may well be that he then goes on to performing the behaviours he does when you are out, so try to prevent him having access to things you dont want chewed, ignore barking.
When you end the 'no attention' period, reward him nicely with a bit of praise but dont go mad, you dont want him to spend the whole time you are not interacting wtih him, hoping and anticipating that interaction, thats stressful too.
If he is bored or bouncy, then look to his exercise and training and games, and also his food - some dog foods are like rocket fuel and its certainly nota 'one brand fits all' thing.
You could try to make you going out a cue for somethign NICE to happen, so if you use the visual cue method, put out the cue AND say a kong wtih some nice smelly food in it, or an interactive toy (check out the IQube and Intellibone products on Training Lines website http://www.traininglines.org.uk/), or provide him WITH a safe parcel of newspaper and the odd treat to rip up if he enjoys that.
If he knows that from time to time he will be expected to amuse himself and you provide him with fun things that he ONLY gets at those times, AND you make sure his food isnt fuelling it and his normal exercise isnt fuelling it, you should be onto a winner.
It DOES take time though and a lot of patience and effort.
Em
thank you for your swift reply emmabeth
Choppa has an hour long walk between 5-7pm each evening. We live in a rural area, so about 5mins of that max is on a lead, the remainer is running freely through fields and woodland. He also plays all day with our other dog, running round the house being idiots with each other!
My partner and I leave and return home from work at different times, but usually the dogs will be on their own from 9.00 - 4.00, often less as my partner sometimes works from home late afternoon.
They have a dog flap so can run around our garden, which is a reasonable size.
Pretty much everytime we come home choppa has got to something. We are wise now to ensuring our shoes and clothes, magazines etc are hidden out of reach. If we dont close the toilet door by mistake he has the loo roll. He might jump on the sideboards and steal paper, bags etc. We know he does this within 5-10 mins after we leave as we if forgot something and have to come back its already done. No, he doesnt rip anything up when we are there.
We feed him twice a day, once in the morning and then again after we have our evening meal, about 7ish. We give him Burns complete biscuits and mix in some wet food. I cant remember the brand, its in a pouch from the petshop, one of these healthy organic option foods. We sometimes give him veg or meat left over from our meal, or a bit of scrambled eggs or cottage cheese mixed in for a change.
Choppa likes a cuddle, but isnt always in the same room as us, we might be in the lounge watching TV, and he will be lying on the kitchen floor chilling out. He seems pretty confident.
I really like the sign idea, its not something I have heard of before.
We have tried using a kong, but he never seems interested in it. perhaps i'm using the wrong food instead. marmite sounds interesting kelli!
Choppa sleeps on our bedroom floor each night, do you think making him sleep outside would help?
Choppa has an hour long walk between 5-7pm each evening. We live in a rural area, so about 5mins of that max is on a lead, the remainer is running freely through fields and woodland. He also plays all day with our other dog, running round the house being idiots with each other!
My partner and I leave and return home from work at different times, but usually the dogs will be on their own from 9.00 - 4.00, often less as my partner sometimes works from home late afternoon.
They have a dog flap so can run around our garden, which is a reasonable size.
Pretty much everytime we come home choppa has got to something. We are wise now to ensuring our shoes and clothes, magazines etc are hidden out of reach. If we dont close the toilet door by mistake he has the loo roll. He might jump on the sideboards and steal paper, bags etc. We know he does this within 5-10 mins after we leave as we if forgot something and have to come back its already done. No, he doesnt rip anything up when we are there.
We feed him twice a day, once in the morning and then again after we have our evening meal, about 7ish. We give him Burns complete biscuits and mix in some wet food. I cant remember the brand, its in a pouch from the petshop, one of these healthy organic option foods. We sometimes give him veg or meat left over from our meal, or a bit of scrambled eggs or cottage cheese mixed in for a change.
Choppa likes a cuddle, but isnt always in the same room as us, we might be in the lounge watching TV, and he will be lying on the kitchen floor chilling out. He seems pretty confident.
I really like the sign idea, its not something I have heard of before.
We have tried using a kong, but he never seems interested in it. perhaps i'm using the wrong food instead. marmite sounds interesting kelli!
Choppa sleeps on our bedroom floor each night, do you think making him sleep outside would help?
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StaffieMad
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Thats great advice from Emma, like she says the best thing to do is pay them no attention for about 10mins before you go and as you are leaveng dont say goodbye choppa or hello as soon as you walk in just ignore them for the 1st 5 mins then give them a pat- basicly dont make it a big deal that you are leaving and returning, it is an everyday thing if you keep this up they will get used to it. Also leave them a toy they only get when you are out eg get a kong and soak a bot of thier dry food in hot water for a while (the night brfore) then when its soaked up stuff it into the kong and put it in the freezer over night, it will tke them a good few hours getting it out during the time you are out!
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thanks Staffiemad, good advice though we have been doing this for several months now, and no joy. I think he needs to go up a stage with the treatment programme.
I will give the sign a go, and I like the freezer idea of the kong, I will try that tonight too.
he's actually in work with me now. I was so worried about him barking in the flat! Its been the only time I have 'given in' and I dont intend to do it again, would rather get to the root of the cause.
thanks once again
I will give the sign a go, and I like the freezer idea of the kong, I will try that tonight too.
he's actually in work with me now. I was so worried about him barking in the flat! Its been the only time I have 'given in' and I dont intend to do it again, would rather get to the root of the cause.
thanks once again
things I use to stuff my dogs Kongs:
cream cheese, peanut butter (they LOVE this), liver treats, yoghurt/carob drops, schmackos (cut into tiny pieces), dog biscuits (as in treat bikkies, not kibble), smashed into tiny pieces - pretty much anything "yummy" - I put into the kong, and then either a biscuit bone in the end that they have to eat to get to the treats, or yoghurt or peanut butter that they have to lick away to get to the rest.
Sometimes I put it in dry, other times I mix it all into the cream cheese/peanut butter mix, and then freeze it.
On hot days, I put in some "dogade" (gatorade for dogs) and freeze it - they love to lick ice.
I haven't bought kong stuffer coz it's so expensive, and I can make perfectly good stuffings myeslf! There are recipes for kong stuffings on the kong site, or if you google it you'll find some good ones too!
One of our dogs 9the older one) used to suffer severe separation anxiety, but since we've had the new puppy (she's 1 now), and started ignoring them before we go out, and using a "safety cue word" when we leave (ours is "see you soon" - and it's only ever used when we're leaving the house), and not fussing over them when we get home - his separation anxiety has gotten a lot better.
He used to bark and howl the entire time we were gone - now he just whines when we initially leave. (I parked the car down the street last week and snuck home and peeked in the window, and there he was, curled up asleep in the bed with the little girl! aww)
Our dogs sleep on our floor in the bedroom too (not good, I know) - and they jump up when we're asleep - I wake up and they're in bed! I want to get a baby gate to put in the bedroom doorway so that I can start putting them outside the bedroom in their beds (can't shut the door as we rent - and they scratch the paint off the doors!!!)
We also have a mixture of toys that we rotate, and when we go out they always have their favourite toys, plus a few "new" (old) ones from the store room.
cream cheese, peanut butter (they LOVE this), liver treats, yoghurt/carob drops, schmackos (cut into tiny pieces), dog biscuits (as in treat bikkies, not kibble), smashed into tiny pieces - pretty much anything "yummy" - I put into the kong, and then either a biscuit bone in the end that they have to eat to get to the treats, or yoghurt or peanut butter that they have to lick away to get to the rest.
Sometimes I put it in dry, other times I mix it all into the cream cheese/peanut butter mix, and then freeze it.
On hot days, I put in some "dogade" (gatorade for dogs) and freeze it - they love to lick ice.
I haven't bought kong stuffer coz it's so expensive, and I can make perfectly good stuffings myeslf! There are recipes for kong stuffings on the kong site, or if you google it you'll find some good ones too!
One of our dogs 9the older one) used to suffer severe separation anxiety, but since we've had the new puppy (she's 1 now), and started ignoring them before we go out, and using a "safety cue word" when we leave (ours is "see you soon" - and it's only ever used when we're leaving the house), and not fussing over them when we get home - his separation anxiety has gotten a lot better.
He used to bark and howl the entire time we were gone - now he just whines when we initially leave. (I parked the car down the street last week and snuck home and peeked in the window, and there he was, curled up asleep in the bed with the little girl! aww)
Our dogs sleep on our floor in the bedroom too (not good, I know) - and they jump up when we're asleep - I wake up and they're in bed! I want to get a baby gate to put in the bedroom doorway so that I can start putting them outside the bedroom in their beds (can't shut the door as we rent - and they scratch the paint off the doors!!!)
We also have a mixture of toys that we rotate, and when we go out they always have their favourite toys, plus a few "new" (old) ones from the store room.
I have also heard (but not tried, nor heard from reputable trainers) that a lot of separation anxiety occurs in the first half hour-hour (??) after the owner leaves. Playing a tape with you and your partner talking on it - not talking directly to the dogs, but just general conversation, and leaving it playing when you leave, for half an hour or so can help (anyone feel free to correct me, as I said - I haven't tried it)
Do you have a camcorder? You could set it up where the dogs can't get to it, and tape his behaviour so you can see exactly what he does and when, after you've left.
If I know that we are going to be going out for anything from 1-5 hours, I make sure that I get up an hour earlier, and take them for a long walk, and a half hour session of playing ball. If they're cooped up inside and haven't had a chance to release their energy, it's no wonder they get antsy inside. (and mine are jack russel and JR x pom, so VERY energetic!!!!)
Good Luck!
Do you have a camcorder? You could set it up where the dogs can't get to it, and tape his behaviour so you can see exactly what he does and when, after you've left.
If I know that we are going to be going out for anything from 1-5 hours, I make sure that I get up an hour earlier, and take them for a long walk, and a half hour session of playing ball. If they're cooped up inside and haven't had a chance to release their energy, it's no wonder they get antsy inside. (and mine are jack russel and JR x pom, so VERY energetic!!!!)
Good Luck!
Thanks for all the info there 
Hmm, so hard to say when you cant see the dog!
Id definately attempt to film his behaviour if you can, see if he seems stressed when he rips things up or is he enjoying it (it can be a coping mechanism and an enjoyable thing as well!).
The only change to your exercise routine id suggest, would be a five minute trundle round the block/ five minute clicker training session in the morning, about 30 minutes before you go out (so he has chance to wind down from teh walk or the training and is less likely to associate training wtih you leaving him if that is really distressign him).
There seems to be plenty of physical exercise there with the long walk in the evening and playing around so really id just add in some mental stimulation.
Id give that a go for a week, and when you leave, provide him wtih fun toys like the iqube, kongs with really yummy things in them (although many dogs wont eat when you are out preferring to save food for when they are secure in the knowledge that more food will definately be provided later, ie when you are home).
The diet sounds good too, Burns is a good food and sounds interesting variety too with scraps and meat added - are they fed mornign and night, or just night? I prefer to feed twice a day.
If that doesnt have an obvious effect for a week or two, then id go with the visual cue thing and lots of practice at 'no attention' and then 'going out coming back'.
If you can make giong out a no fuss thing, its no big deal it happens from time to time and when it does, there are fun things to do, you can crack the problem.
Em
Hmm, so hard to say when you cant see the dog!
Id definately attempt to film his behaviour if you can, see if he seems stressed when he rips things up or is he enjoying it (it can be a coping mechanism and an enjoyable thing as well!).
The only change to your exercise routine id suggest, would be a five minute trundle round the block/ five minute clicker training session in the morning, about 30 minutes before you go out (so he has chance to wind down from teh walk or the training and is less likely to associate training wtih you leaving him if that is really distressign him).
There seems to be plenty of physical exercise there with the long walk in the evening and playing around so really id just add in some mental stimulation.
Id give that a go for a week, and when you leave, provide him wtih fun toys like the iqube, kongs with really yummy things in them (although many dogs wont eat when you are out preferring to save food for when they are secure in the knowledge that more food will definately be provided later, ie when you are home).
The diet sounds good too, Burns is a good food and sounds interesting variety too with scraps and meat added - are they fed mornign and night, or just night? I prefer to feed twice a day.
If that doesnt have an obvious effect for a week or two, then id go with the visual cue thing and lots of practice at 'no attention' and then 'going out coming back'.
If you can make giong out a no fuss thing, its no big deal it happens from time to time and when it does, there are fun things to do, you can crack the problem.
Em