dealing with the 'mad half hour'

[emma-louise]

good afternoon

quick update on jack my SBT hes now comming up to 12 weeks the snapping has virtually stopped, he no longer chases my feet and has started to turn in to a real lovely little boy BUT i am having one issue thats causing problems....

when he gets over excited he goes nutts and there is nothing im able to do to calm him down as i said his biting has virtually stopped only when hes excited does he bite or nip which now is getting really hard and i have a few bad bruises,
ive tried distracting him with his fav toys - result - he attacks the toy then comes back to munch me
yelping - ive yelped my self horse!
playing dead - almost lost a ear not doing that again
ive tried removing him to calm down - result - he manages to do a scene from exorcist and turns his head all the way round to bite and attack the hand holding his leash / collar
ive even tried pinning him down and as you guessed that didnt work just got me munched more
time out in another room results in him going mad at my hands while i try to move him and when i do let him out he attacks again
he really snarls as well during this time but never the rest of the time

all i end up doing is staying off the floor and sitting on the sofa with my feet up waiting till he chills this only lasts about half an hour but still its not a solution in the long run!
this is only when we are in when he is out and getts over excited by new smells, cars, bikes those lovely people who insist on bending down to stroke him when hes being such a good boy (thats another problem) he just attacks my feet if i stop still he stops and we can carry on but in the flat this just dont work.

the rest of the time he is a perfect little boy, well house trained sits, stays begs etc, when we are out walking out the way of distractions he heels, walks well on and off the lead, comes to call etc
when we go on walks we run, play fetch, take his toys with him etc so its never just a plain boring walk and i try to go different places every few days so he dont get bored
we have a good walk in the moring, quick one at dinner when i pop back on my lunch and a longer walk in the evening, hes never left alone for more than 3.5 hours as if i cant get back in that time my dads only round the corner and he pops in to spend time with him.
these mad half hours can happen after or befor his evening walk but always at night, he did used to have them in the morning as well but stopped that
it dosent make any difference if its my day off work and ive been there all day or if ive been out at work all day

am i asking to much that at 12 weeks he stops this? i dont want him not to have fun but it would be nice if i could play with him but i cant even play fetch in the house as he just wont have any of it and just wants to play with my fingers how can i turn this energy in to fun OR distract him befor he gets this over excited? i cant see what sets him off.

sorry for the really long long long post think thats all

em and jack

[emmabeth]

Hiya,

Ooooooh this can be frustrating.. yes, if your ears are taking a punishing, dont do the play dead thing (or.... wear a hat? ).

Firstly... what is he fed? Its possible that this sort of behaviour can stem from sugars/additives in food so thats the first thing to look at.

If it isnt linked to that (try feeding him something bland for a couple of days and see if hte behaviour lessens...) then the thing to do is likely ignore it, or sit with a huge pile of toys and throw them to him, keeping your feet and fingers out of the way.

If he bites you, say nothing and leave the room.

It is hard to deal with because when they get overly silly like this they forget them selves and nip hard and its reallllllllly hard NOT to react to being nipped - as you have found out with the attempt to pin him down, reacting just doesnt work (and yep, thats a bad thing to do, but you wouldnt be human if you didnt occasionally try something out of desperation!).

Persevere, he is only 12 weeks and that is very young yet - it probably seems like he has been with you a lifetime by now so its easy to forget how young and how undeveloped their personalities are.

I can promise you, in 18 months time you will look back at this and be amazed at how different he is, how much he has changed!

Keep up the good work

Em

[Josie]

Hi, firstly, relax! It's totally normal. It's a bit like a toddler being over tired and going nuts.

Take a look at what you're feeding him, stuff with loads of additives like Bakers will cause this kind of behaviour.

If you're feeding a nice, good food, then there are several ways to get him to calm down. Putting him out of the room works in theory, but like you said the catching him becomes a great game. A lightweight houseline on him (like one of those really thin puppy leads you can get from any pound shop or supermarket) will give you something to grab that isn't him, Make sure it's not something he'll chew (you can cover it in nasty tasting stuff, either from your food cupboard such as lemon juice or a spicy sauce, or one of those bitter taste sprays from the pet shop) and then you can calmly grab the end of teh lead, avoid being eaten and place him out of the room for up to a minute. While he's out, prepare a kong or a chew, and then let him in and give him that to calm himself down.

If putting him out is a problem, you can leave the room yourself. Either way he gets teh message mad bitey behaviour = no attention.

If you know what time he is liikely to have these manic episodes, pre-empt him by giving him something to chew first, so he calms himself down and goes off to sleep. When it's predictable you can time your evening walk around him, so just before he's due to go loopy, take him out to get the energy off, and then bring him home for a rawhide chew or kong to relax.

If a kong or a chew doesn't do it for him, some thinking games (eg clicker training) might turn the brain back on, but don't expect those sessions to be productive, they are just about getting him to refocus. Work on calm things like sits, downs and stays, and keep sessions short. Then after that, try him again with a chew.

A 'settle' is a useful command to teach. Attach pups lead, sit on teh sofa with his bed on the floor and choose a time where you want to ignore puppy (eg when your favourite soap is on) put your foot on the lead, and ignore any jumping or attention seeking behaviour. When he is calm, ask him for a 'down' (if he has learnt this) and reward him very calmly, perhaps with a chew or just with a soothing stroke. He will soon learn that in that situation, he is not going to get attention so the only thing he can do is to settle down. Practice that at other peoples houses too, it will come in VERY useful!!

[Josie]

Oops, posted at same time as Emmabeth, at least we agree!

[Ocelot0411]

Oh I still get this, seven months on! Utter madness ensues. I often let Ellie out into the garden when she goes bonkers, this is quite funny to watch as she hurtles up and down at stupid miles per hour (I have a very big garden) and sometimes goes so fast that she falls over her own feet and goes A over T (I shouldn't laugh but it is quite funny and she certainly doesn't hurt herself).

When she nips at me in the house I do the frog march to the kitchen (behind baby gate) for a time out / have a little think about what it might have been that got you in here. Usually this is ony for five minutes or so, maybe less. I get yelps of protest at first and then all goes quiet. When she quietens down I go back to her make up (make her sit then pet her) and then back she comes to the front room or whereever.

Ellie used to try to chomp my hand whilst I was in the process of taking her into the kitchen, but I learnt to hold her collar by putting the back of my hand through it flat and then holding my arms stiff so that she is at arms length and can't flip around to munch me (if Staffies are as strong as Dobies you will end up with an arm like popeye like mine!). This works two fold as firstly obviously you don't get hurt, but because you are not getting hurt they get no reaction (the minute the frog march begins I am silent, gazing straight ahead, no interaction with her) so this also takes away the motivation to do it in the first place. Now if Ellie nips me and I go to take her to the kitchen she just looks at the floor as if to say 'oh bugger I forgot' and off we go. She settles quicker now too as she knows the drill.

As Em and Josie have said I really agree that its just when they get over excited & silly and then forget themselves, as when they forget themsleves they revert back to instinctive forms of play which is of course nipping. Good luck, sounds like you are doing really well so far!

[emma-louise]

thanks

he is on (now i think this is right) canni royal dry??? with a small amount of butchers as wet food first thing in the morning, the dry food was what the vet recommended and he loves it is it a good one??

i might invest in a baby gate to pop him in the kitchen when he goes OTT and try it as a time out! he loves his training sessions possibly he could do with longer sessions

last night i just kept standing up and folding my arms and will try walking away see how that helps

yes the pinning down was pure desperation! i was really ill with a tummy bug and he actually managed to bite my ear so hard it bleed all over the place AND bit my face as well

thanks for listening to my long post some times just writting it all down and going away from it helps just as much as the wonderful advice you guys give!

[Mattie]

Vets always push Hill's foods, don't know why because there is a lot of rubbish in them.

Can you put the ingredients up please, as well as the protien?

[emma-louise]

erm im at work at the min will have to write them down and try to pop them up moro.

see if i can find out off the net

[emma-louise]

this is what i could find on the net makes absolutly no sense to me??!?!

Home Page > Retailers > Dog Size Health Nutrition > MEDIUM - Medium Breed Dogs > Medium Junior Medium JuniorFrom 2 months to 12 months
A special composition to help build the natural defences of the Medium-sized puppy.
A synergistic complex of antioxidants (vitamins E and C, taurine and lutein) to maintain the immune defences.


Mannan-oligosaccharides to support the immune system in the intestinal mucosae and promote a healthy gut flora.


Fructo-oligosaccharides to promote a balanced intestinal flora.


Essential fatty acids
for coat and skin formation and to support the integrity of the intestinal mucosae.


Vitamin A and biotin for the development of skin cells.


Chelated zinc to help the healing process.


Available in 4 kg/ 9kg / 15kg bags

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Satisfies the requirements for fast growth by providing a high energy content food (4288 kcal/kg) rich in proteins (32%).

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Takes account of the puppy's poor digestive capacity by means of very highly digestible proteins, a reduced starch content (25%), fructo-oligosaccharides and beet pulp to nourish the intestinal flora.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promotes steady growth and healthy teeth by means of appropriate calcium and phosphorus contents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMMUNITY BOOSTER,
A patented synergistic complex of antioxidants, mannan-oligosaccharides, essential fatty acids, vitamin A and biotin and zinc chelate to help maintain a puppy’s natural defences.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sheena]

Our boy still does this at 17 months old and he is really only starting to do it less now as he is maturing. He does it after his walk and bounces off the sofas. We now put him in the kitchen after his walk so he can't go mad and he settles down after 10 minutes or so. We also keep a house lead on him at night so if he does it we can catch him without chasing him or grabbing his collar.

It does seem to be an evening thing and like you say they do it whether you have been in or out and regardless of amount of exercise. We tend to give our boy a rawhide bone with kong paste and little bits on chicken stuffed in it and this keeps him occupied and out of mischief for a while.

It can take a long time. Our boy is 42kg so we know about it when he does this.

[Ocelot0411]

42kg!!!!!

What he is ???

[Mattie]

Takes account of the puppy's poor digestive capacity by means of very highly digestible proteins,

I couldn't find the ingredients either and that statement looks to me as if they are trying to pull the wool over dog owners eyes.

I would be very suspicious of any food were I couldn't find the ingredients, but they should be of the bag of food, they have to put them on there by law.

[emma-louise]

oh plop! wrote them down but left them at home!

[Kim]

You can find a list of all the ingredients for the canin royal dog *cough* food if you follow this link: http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_ ... maxi/13418

There was probably an easier way of doing it than this, but this was the quickest one I could find.

Hi, I'm new here.

[emmabeth]

Ello Kim

Um, yes you coulda done this....

Maize, poultry meal, vegetable proteins, maizegluton, Beef fat, animal fat, animal protein, beef greave meal (dehydrated beef protein), dehydrated fish, beet pulp, rice, vegetable oil, fish oil, soy oil, taurine, hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), hydrolysed cartilage (source of chondroitin, minerals, trace-elements (including chelated trace-elements), fructo-oligo-saccharides, DL-methionine, egg powder, casein, vitamins.

There we go .... I'm not a mod for nuffink then!