Hi,
I have 2 lovely female Yorkshire terriers (5 year old littermates who we’ve had since they were 12 weeks old) who up until the day we moved got along very well. However the day we moved into the new house the 2 of them had several violent fights sustaining injury to each other and myself.
The triggers for the fights seemed to be different as one started as I sat down, the second when we had a guest and then again when we tried to reintroduce them to each other.
We have had to keep them completely separated ever since then as they are exhibiting signs of aggression whenever they see each other, and I don’t want to risk putting them together due to the violent nature of the fights.
I don’t want to keep them separate forever particularly as they played and lived together so well in our previous home, and I’m sure that keeping them separated is as stressful for them as it is for us, however I would rather be safe than sorry.
Would appreciate if anyone has any ideas as to what I can do to reclaim the peaceful environment we had before.
House move nightmare - Help needed !
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Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
I'm sorry to have to tell you that the return to peace and harmony is highly unlikely.
Two littermates, and particularly two females, are very likely to eventually fight each other. B itch fights are very serious indeed and can result in death. This is common rather than unusual.
You have done really well to get them to five years old before this started. It often begins much earlier.
They may well have been signs so subtle that you did not see (no criticism: we mostly need to be taught to notice these), and that this has been brewing up for a while. The house move piled on sufficient extra stress for it to boil over.
My take on this, from a lot of experience, is that you will now have to keep them apart except when under direct supervision. It may well be that even direct supervision is not going to be enough to stop them fighting again, but you can help by arranging their lives so that no resources (toys, food, anything else they value) are about when they are together, and that they are tired. Tired means a lot more exercise outside, and also puzzle toys/training indoors, so minds and bodies are tired together. However you will have to exercise and play with/train each one separately.
A change in diet can often be very helpful - natural feeding on raw food takes a lot more energy to eat, and they are not getting additives as they are in commercial food. I do not know your feeding regime: you may do this already.
It's a tough call, with no easy solutions.
Two littermates, and particularly two females, are very likely to eventually fight each other. B itch fights are very serious indeed and can result in death. This is common rather than unusual.
You have done really well to get them to five years old before this started. It often begins much earlier.
They may well have been signs so subtle that you did not see (no criticism: we mostly need to be taught to notice these), and that this has been brewing up for a while. The house move piled on sufficient extra stress for it to boil over.
My take on this, from a lot of experience, is that you will now have to keep them apart except when under direct supervision. It may well be that even direct supervision is not going to be enough to stop them fighting again, but you can help by arranging their lives so that no resources (toys, food, anything else they value) are about when they are together, and that they are tired. Tired means a lot more exercise outside, and also puzzle toys/training indoors, so minds and bodies are tired together. However you will have to exercise and play with/train each one separately.
A change in diet can often be very helpful - natural feeding on raw food takes a lot more energy to eat, and they are not getting additives as they are in commercial food. I do not know your feeding regime: you may do this already.
It's a tough call, with no easy solutions.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
Nettle, would you be able to talk a little bit about what some of the warning signs might be in this situation? I certainly don't want to divert the focus of this thread away from the original poster in any way, but I have two female dogs that have been together since puppyhood and reading your post made my blood run a bit cold. Thanks.
Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
Of course.
Whale eye-ing each other.
Staring directly at each other.
Stiff-legged walking round each other.
One getting broadside to the other and pushing her away from - something: you, me, a toy, a crumb of food on the floor.
One dog frequently moving the other, or making the other move.
Ears changing position to down and sideways.
Whiskers changing position and moving forwards and outwards.
Lip-licking one dog to the other.
Be aware that snarls and growls can be in a sound frequency WE cannot hear - but you can see the dog vibrating.
Note: if the corners of the mouth move forwards, the situation is escalating. Do Something Now!
Whale eye-ing each other.
Staring directly at each other.
Stiff-legged walking round each other.
One getting broadside to the other and pushing her away from - something: you, me, a toy, a crumb of food on the floor.
One dog frequently moving the other, or making the other move.
Ears changing position to down and sideways.
Whiskers changing position and moving forwards and outwards.
Lip-licking one dog to the other.
Be aware that snarls and growls can be in a sound frequency WE cannot hear - but you can see the dog vibrating.
Note: if the corners of the mouth move forwards, the situation is escalating. Do Something Now!
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
Thank you very much for this - I really appreciate it. Last week, actually, I suspect they were about to have their first fight in about a year. There were definitely stiff-legged stances, whale-eyes, and the kelpie was herding the shepherd and very keyed up. I ordered them to their beds in separate corners and the situation defused, but I'll admit I felt pretty unsettled afterwards. The last fight they had, I wasn't able to break it up, so I try to be vigilant about the warning signs. Thanks again, and apologies for intruding on the original thread.
Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
Thanks for posting this question. Just did update on Blackie under Diet, Health thread. Going through the same thing. Trainer coming on Friday to begin work on this now. VERY scary. Happened on my bed last night. Also suggested to stop letting dogs on my furniture and to crate them at night.
Blackie's and Misty's Mom
Re: House move nightmare - Help needed !
To add what Nettle said:
Along with the signs she's listed, I've noticed a rise in tension and complete silence usually right before a non-bloody fight happens. I'd also note what triggers led to the fight and that will help with managing the situation.
It might be helpful to keep a diary of what dogs did, ate (including treats, grass, etc.), training, exercise, any lifestyle changes, toys, how you reacted, etc, anything you might think be relevant and look for a pattern (if any). Using that information, you can think of an action plan. Sometimes instead of being one trigger, it can many little stresses that add up and take their toll.
EXAMPLE:
12/1:
Maggie ate 1/2 cup total of Wellness kibble. I played fetch with her 1/2 hour and went for a tracking walk for 1/2 hour. She met Mr. XYZ and exhibited the following signs of stress: lip curling, staring, growling, and left the room. Later that day, Grandma visited and she became very excited (jumping, barking, hyper). Grandma gave out treats and Maggie went after Betsy.
Betsy ate 1/2 cup total of Wellness kibble. We played tug for 15 minutes and then went to the park for 1/2 hour. Trained "sit/stays" with clicker for 2 5 minute sessions. Betsy saw Grandma and sat when asked, but was excited to see her yet still tired from the park.
Action plan: Maggie needs more impulse control games. Try to avoid males on walks/in house until stress levels go down. Work on greeting behaviors with both dogs. Give Betsy a nap in crate after walks. Avoid using treats if both girls are stressed....
---------
Roxylu, how long have you moved into your new house? New environments can be stressful for us as well as the dogs.
Here are some helpful links about dog body language:
Dog's body language (video)
Seminar points about what stresses a dog out
Fundog's storyabout getting her "new dog" with the "old" one. While it's not exactly the same situation, I found this inspiring when working with my two dogs!
Along with the signs she's listed, I've noticed a rise in tension and complete silence usually right before a non-bloody fight happens. I'd also note what triggers led to the fight and that will help with managing the situation.
It might be helpful to keep a diary of what dogs did, ate (including treats, grass, etc.), training, exercise, any lifestyle changes, toys, how you reacted, etc, anything you might think be relevant and look for a pattern (if any). Using that information, you can think of an action plan. Sometimes instead of being one trigger, it can many little stresses that add up and take their toll.
EXAMPLE:
12/1:
Maggie ate 1/2 cup total of Wellness kibble. I played fetch with her 1/2 hour and went for a tracking walk for 1/2 hour. She met Mr. XYZ and exhibited the following signs of stress: lip curling, staring, growling, and left the room. Later that day, Grandma visited and she became very excited (jumping, barking, hyper). Grandma gave out treats and Maggie went after Betsy.
Betsy ate 1/2 cup total of Wellness kibble. We played tug for 15 minutes and then went to the park for 1/2 hour. Trained "sit/stays" with clicker for 2 5 minute sessions. Betsy saw Grandma and sat when asked, but was excited to see her yet still tired from the park.
Action plan: Maggie needs more impulse control games. Try to avoid males on walks/in house until stress levels go down. Work on greeting behaviors with both dogs. Give Betsy a nap in crate after walks. Avoid using treats if both girls are stressed....
---------
Roxylu, how long have you moved into your new house? New environments can be stressful for us as well as the dogs.
Here are some helpful links about dog body language:
Dog's body language (video)
Seminar points about what stresses a dog out
Fundog's storyabout getting her "new dog" with the "old" one. While it's not exactly the same situation, I found this inspiring when working with my two dogs!