Havanese showing unpredictable aggression

[marisoma]

Hello Everyone,

I have a 2 year old Havanese named Giotto. We have had him since he was 10 weeks old. Almost immediately since we got him he showed some irritability. He would growl sometimes if someone tried to pick him up but that was as far as it would go. He never showed his teeth or snapped or anything like that. We put him into obedience class and he did very well. He knows basic commands (sit, stay, down, heel, wait, come, off, leave it) and for the most part is an obedient and sweet dog. However, in the last few months he's shown increasing aggression, usually when someone tries to pick him up or pet him. At first I thought it was fearful aggression since he usually would react like this when he appeared nervous or stressed. I took him to the vet and they did a work up and physically they found him to be fine but agreed he probably had some fear aggression. They gave me some suggestions to help manage his behavior and for awhile he was fine and seemed to be getting better. Now though he is highly reactive and he's not just growling or snapping, but he's biting. It's very unpredictable because he can go from playing with you or just sitting next to you being petted and will jump up and attack you. Just today he came up to me on the sofa while I was on the computer. I reached over to pet him and he jumped up and attacked my hand and bit me. He hasn't drawn blood yet but I fear that is only a matter of time. What is most confusing to me is that this comes out of nowhere and I am to the point of not trusting this dog and being fearful of him. I love him and he can be a very sweet dog and is a great companion most of the time, but this aggression is getting worse and I just don't know where to turn. It's to the point I can't even get him groomed because I am worried how he will react.

He does get walked daily, usually 2-3 30-minute walks a day. He eats 1/2 cup dry food (Canidae) with 1/4 c. of Merrick canned food. He gets offered this twice a day, but often will only eat one meal and will pick at the other. He's about 18lbs so he's big for his breed. He sleeps usually at the foot of my bed or on the floor near my bed. He's moderately active. He plays and enjoys going for walks, but he's also likes to lie around and sleep. Another odd issue with him that started recently (and may or may not tie into this) is that on walks he sometimes just stops and will not move forward. It is usually for no apparent reason and sometimes if you cross the street and go the opposite direction he will start walking again, if not, then I just have to drag or carry him until he decides to walk again. He doesn't seem to do this because he's tired or in pain or for any reason but that he wants to stop. Like I said, I don't know if it ties into his aggression but it's another issue of his.

Any help is greatly appreciated because I am at my wits end here. I don't know what to do with him and I feel like I have run out of resources to try and help him (and us).

[Nettle]

Can you tell us exactly what the vet checked? It does sound like a health issue to me. Bloods, urine, prostate, skeleton, joints, sight, hearing?

Meanwhile, the most important thing is for you to listen to what he is saying. He has been telling you that he doesn't want to be picked up. Dogs HATE being picked up - it really scares them. So pretend he is a Rottweiller and stop picking him up.

He has been telling you he is not happy with the way he is being petted. Small changes here can help both of you. I don't know how you pet him, but here are some things people do that dogs hate:

Patting heads
Patting other places (stroke them instead)
Mistaking appeasing signals of lying on side/back and exposing tummy as wanting tummy rubs
Touching places that are sore.
Looming over the dog
Hard staring eye contact
Loud voices or shrieking

To add to the difficulties - some dogs like hard pats on their bottoms, and some like tummy rubs - we have to learn the difference between a dog asking for these, and asking for something else. Not always easy, but we can learn by watching the rest of the dog and backing off as soon as he looks unhappy with us (ears flat, lip-licking, yawning) and certainly at once if he growls. If we ignore a dog growling and carry on with what we are doing that they have asked us to stop doing, the next step is a bite. As you have found.

Do tell us about the vet, and anything else different that has happened recently - no details too small, and nothing is silly - we need to know, and then we can help.

[marisoma]

Thank you for your response!

The vet gave him a physical and did an internal x-ray scan to check for any blockage or something that could be causing him pain. She also drew blood but I don't know what she checked. She told me everything came back fine so she didn't think the cause was physical, especially since he's been exhibiting these behaviors for some time. The behavior suggestions she offered were mainly just managing his behavior. Following his signals, not picking him up unless neccessary and he agreed. To let him be if his tail is down or he's looking nervous or stressed. He was hiding under chairs in moments of fear or nervousness so she suggested encouraging him to go into his crate. We've had minimal success with that. He's not opposed to his crate but he won't willingly go in there on his own. We have to coax him unsing treats and to keep him in there need to close the door. She suggested we try obedience training again which we did and he did very well in. He follows commands. He likes praise and to please. He likes to be around other dogs but he doesn't much like to interface with them. If it is a dog his size he's much more comfortable but if a much larger dog approaches him he usually backs away. He usually just backs away or walks away but if confronted and in fear he has barked and snapped when a dog has gotten too close. It really seems to depend on his level of comfort. Some dogs he is very playful with and others he pulls away from and doesn't want to be near.

As for petting him, it's more just stroking on his back or under his chin (and he does seem to like belly rubs, it seems to calm him), but we do this most often at what seems to be his request. It's when he comes to us or sits next to us. We don't chase him around and try to pet him. We have really tried to give him more space since he started having these issues. There are instances I have to touch him or pick him up, grooming for one. He hates that and it's such a struggle to do it on any kind of regular basis and not get nipped or bitten.

Really, the most pressing issue for me is dealing with the unpredictable part of his aggression. I think we can manage his little quirks, but when you are always on guard or in fear of being bitten it's nerve wracking. Maybe we will never be able to completely trust him but I'd like to have some assurance of being able to judge when it's safe to touch him or approach him and when it's not. I also don't know what (if anything) should be done when he bites. The vet told us to ignore him when he does that. She said that is what dogs do to each other in the pack when one dog gets out of line, they ignore it or banish it before letting it back into the pack. We've tried that but honestly he just looks confused and doesn't understand why we aren't paying attention to him. Oh that is another thing about him. He likes attention. He is always following us (mostly me) and right near us all the time. He doesn't like to be left alone without you in sight. I think that is why ignoring him doesn't work well for him. I think it makes him stressed.

That is all I can think of about him right now that might help you understand him. I personally find him to be a nervous dog and he's pretty much has always been that way. It's worse now but when I think back to when we first got him he did exhibit some of that behavior. It is just more profound now. I think that if we fixed or lessened that he might be less aggressive, but I don't know how to fix it.

[emmabeth]

Definitely, if he growls snaps or bites you, dont 'do' anything - ignore it (not him) as in dont react to it, but heed it and dont do whatever it was you were doing again.

Instead, think 'change the subject' - for instance if you want to touch him and you are not sure he will be happy with that, instead of you approaching him, you ask him to approach you (and offer a good reason for this such as a toy or a treat).

Once you get into the habit of finding ways to avoid potentially confrontational situations, it gets easier, and you also find you become more aware of your body language (we humans are woefully bad at body language, rarely are we aware how we come across to others, whether it is our body blocking the dog from approaching or even escaping, or we are giving out threatening or aggressively challening messages with our stance and tension).

For example, if he is sat on the sofa in the corner, back to the back of the sofa - if you stand directly in front of him and lean over him and order him off, many dogs are likely to NOT comply with that, instead wedgin themselves further into the sofa, which we mis-read as 'stubborn' or 'cheeky' and that the dog wants to 'own' the sofa.

In fact our body language by standing directly in front of, firm, harsh tone of voice, leaning forward - we are REALLY saying 'im likely to attack you now'. The dog cannot move, because to do so would be to move towards you, which would be an action likely to trigger further aggressive behaviour from the person (as far as the dog is concerned).

In this situation the most common next step is that the human thinks 'damn dog, so stubborn' and .... reaches for and grabs the dogs collar, and physically, and often none too gently either, pulls the dog off the sofa. So that threatening confrontational body language, was then escalated by a direct physical 'attack', the dog WAS right... !!!

Its really really easy to see then why so so many dogs quickly learn to growl when approached when lying on a sofa!

If instead we stood sidways or 3/4s on and invited the dog to come to us, or at least asked the dog to get off the sofa in a light, pleasant tone of voice, and this request was followed up with reward and fuss - the dog would willingly comply (as long as he/she understood the request), because the body language would contain no threat or confrontation, and the path would be clear for the dog to move and pass the human.

This is just one example of a really really common miscommunication problem between dogs and humans. Its not to say you and your dog have this particular issue, its just an example of how you can very quickly get to 'my dog bites me without warning' from a simple misunderstanding.

[runlikethewind]

[quote="marisoma"] Maybe we will never be able to completely trust him but I'd like to have some assurance of being able to judge when it's safe to touch him or approach him and when it's not. quote]

You will be able to. He will learn to TRUST YOU. So far, because he is a sensitive dog, the things you have been doing have worried him. It's as simple as that and I've been here. Please take a look at my thread with a very similar problem.

http://www.positively.com/forum/viewtop ... aggression

Please also see the recent post called Confused Jack Russell - again for a similar problem

You are not alone, your relationship will improve and the methods on here really work.

I leave my dog to initiate affection now - and he loves the CHOICE so he comes over more and more for it now whereas before when I was bad at reading him, and used to believe the ridiculous pack/dominance theory, we had an awful time with growling. It didn't get to bite level as in your case. The reason this has happened is because your dog will have been trying to tell you for a long time that he wasn't comfortable with what you were doing - be that picking up, grooming etc. You missed the signs and the attempts at communication. the dilated pupils. stiff posture and head, looking away etc. Don't worry.. the newcomers on here like myself did.

When you get to a better level of understanding, you'll know what he likes and dislikes, if you do something he dislikes, you'll be able to read his subtle signs, the dog will tell you I'm not happy with that, you stop what you are doing and then he thinks that's greatm she listened to me. When the trust is there, you'll see.. he'll become much more relaxed.

On the grooming - do you need to groom him? It could be painful. You can get a dog used to grooming IF YOU MUST by clicker training. See the clicker training thread in the article section.

[OHenry]

It does seem like the OP is trying to be more sensitive and aware and respect the dog's boundaries. One thing about the unwillingness to walk though, is that I don't think picking up or dragging is going to help build that bond. When your dog "parks" mid-walk, could you just stand still and _wait_ til he's ready, then turn to go home?

[Sue1234]

Meanwhile, the most important thing is for you to listen to what he is saying. He has been telling you that he doesn't want to be picked up. Dogs HATE being picked up - it really scares them. So pretend he is a Rottweiller and stop picking him up.

With all due respect Nettle, I often see this written here, that dogs HATE being picked up. It may be just poor word choice on your part, but you make it sound like an absolute. In fact many little dogs (as well as some medium dogs and even some big dogs) enjoy being held and picked up. My neighbor, for instance, has three little dogs and all but one beg to be picked up on a regular basis. They never seem happier than when Peggy is holding them. I have known many other dogs of all sizes and breeds over the years that are fine with being picked up, others not so much. So while not all dogs enjoy it, and therefore it should be avoided with those dogs, many do enjoy it and for them it is fine to pick them up. Now I understand of course that in one sense you are responding to this one person and her specific needs, but your wording seems to indicate that you believe this is true for ALL dogs and I think that could be confusing to others reading your post that they will think they should never pick up any dog, ever. That of course is not true and I felt it needed some clarification.

[runlikethewind]

OHenry is right - I missed the bit about not wanting to walk. I must please please warn you against making a dog do something it does it want to do. Pulling a dog around is not pleasant for either of you. This comes from bitter experience. I pulled my dog around so called 'training classes', when he was frightened (I know realise), made him do what I wanted him to do because that is what I was told a dog should do - to do what you want all the time through submission to its owner. I believed what I was told. It created a terrible rift between my dog and me, probably part of the problem we had with aggression, as he just did not trust me and he had no fun with me in these places. He developed a fear of halls, of people shouting commands, or structured classes and of walking to heel. I still have this now, so we avoid all these fear triggers, and I am rebuilding his confidence in me to look after and respect him in a different type of class, just for something to do and for fun. So please please listen to your dog. Stop to wonder why he does not want to walk any further, rather than pick him up or pull him along. It may simply be that he IS tired or maybe deeper - that he is worried about something.

Ps as you say he is 'big for his breed', could he be overweight? If he is overweight, maybe he does not enjoy walking - only an idea. I only say this interestingly because you said he picks at his 2nd meal so maybe he just doesn't need that much food.

[Nettle]

When I say dogs hate being picked up, I say it for all the people who pick their dogs up and can't understand why the dog is growling, struggling or even biting them.

Most dogs that are constantly being picked up learn to tolerate it. Some may even come to like it, though from my own observations, what the owner interprets as "he likes this" or even "he looooves this" is way off - the dog looks as if it is far from enjoying the process - but people are great at denial, just as dogs are great at tolerating our simian needs to clutch and hug and lift up. As an observation of dog likes and dislikes, hatred of being picked up is right up there with things dogs hate most. A dog only ever picks up another dog as a prelude to killing it.

I do not ever tell people to pick their dogs up, and I stand by what I say and I mean - dogs hate being picked up, and we are all better dog owners if we do not pick them up. Dogs are not toys or huggies or surrogate children - they are dogs, and are at their happiest when treated as dogs.

[Wicket]

On the grooming - do you need to groom him? It could be painful. You can get a dog used to grooming IF YOU MUST by clicker training. See the clicker training thread in the article section.

Havenese need to be groomed and brushed. If the long coat is too much to handle, the dog could be cut short in a puppy cut so there is less hair to deal with. I'd only say smooth coated dogs (labs, chihuahuas, grey hounds,etc.) need to be bathed sparingly.

Perhaps some more experienced members here can help your dog get desensitized to grooming tools.

[Sarah83]

On the grooming - do you need to groom him? It could be painful. You can get a dog used to grooming IF YOU MUST by clicker training. See the clicker training thread in the article section.

A Havanese is going to HAVE to be groomed on a regular basis. It's a difficult one because even if you keep him cut in a puppy cut he's going to have to put up with being handled and groomed by the groomer which could undo any work you do on teaching him to happily accept grooming.

[runlikethewind]

ah interesting. I did not realise that this breed required grooming,

[Horace's Mum]

Here is a good video showing how to teach an alternate behaviour while grooming. If you decide to do something like this, it might be worth getting her clipped out completely so you can start from a good base without having to tackle tangles and the like before she is ready. Maybe do some of the clicker work to begin with, up to the point of starting grooming, and then possibly think about sedating her to get her clipped out if she really hates it that much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xugE8cHgpXg

[marisoma]

Hello everyone,

Thank you again for your kind and concerned responses.

I took Giotto to the vet yesterday for his heartworm test and it turns out he tested positive for Lyme disease. He has tested positive before too so considering his behavior she thinks he might benefit from being treated. So we are trying that this week to see if it helps any. She also referred me to a behavorist and recommended trying the NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) program to see if that helps any. She seemed confused as to why he is acting this way (as we all are) but thinks we should just keep doing what we are doing and seeing the behaviorist can offer any help. She also suggested that maybe he'd benefit from some anxiety medication. I don't know if I want to go there yet, but I guess it's an option.

runlikethewind: Thank you for your suggestions and link to your story. You situation sounds a lot like what we are going through with Giotto. I do think there are trust issues on both sides. As much as we are becoming fearful and not trusting him, I don't think he trusts us either. I hope we can change that. Oh, and yes, he needs to be groomed. It's the bane of our existence because he hates it and every time I have to bring him to the groomer I stress over how he will react. I do keep him short so that helps. I don't know how I'd manage him if he had a long coat.

Nettle: Giotto doesn't seem to enjoy being picked up. He likes to be near you and sit by you but he does not like to be held. He's been this way since a puppy, much to my childrens' dismay. They want to carry him around and he just is not interested in that. He'd much rather play fetch or tug than to be held.

Horace's mom: Thank you for the video link. I will check that out.

[Nettle]

Nettle: Giotto doesn't seem to enjoy being picked up. He likes to be near you and sit by you but he does not like to be held. He's been this way since a puppy, much to my childrens' dismay. They want to carry him around and he just is not interested in that. He'd much rather play fetch or tug than to be held.



Yup, perfectly normal dog, perfectly normal kids. Get the kids a big plush toy doggie each that they can hug and carry, and play with Giotto as he wants to be played with. Then everyone is happy.

Careful with NILIF - tell us what you have been told to do and we will all discuss it with you. Generally it isn't a good thing.