snapping staffy pup!

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emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

snapping staffy pup!

Post by emma-louise »

hi all

new here and would love some advice?

im new to dogs having never owned one and was bought a puppy as a gift (yes i know not the best gift idea but luckly it came at a time when i was looking in to having a dog any way as im now in a stable position to have one) i had a few weeks to do a little bit of research befor he came along to me last saturday but need some help with his snapping :(
hes only just over 6 weeks old and has settled in well with me the only issue i have at the min is his snapping he tends to get over excited and snaps at me my arms/ face / legs etc what ever is in snaping distance! ive tried ignoring him untill he calms down but as soon as i return to stroking petting playing etc he starts snapping again any advice on what to do???
i obviously want to get him out of this as not only does it blooming hurt but i want my neices and nephews to be able to come round with out having to worry about him snapping at them.
:(
cheers
emma-louise
emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth »

Oh dear!

You have a lot of learning to do fast :lol:

He snaps and bites because with his litter mates, thats play. Unfortunately for you, it hurts you more than them, and also because he is so young (he should have been 8 weeks old before leaving his litter), he has missed out on a few weeks learning.

In his litter, if he bit too hard the other pups would have backed off and ignored him, ie his actions would not have been rewarded.

They would also have yelled really loudly to say 'that hurts', so he would have a clear signal saying 'do that and i wont play with you'.

You have to do the same thing!

The first thing to remember is this:

Dogs repeat behaviour that is rewarding.

If thats all you ever learn about dog training, it will get you a long way, especially if you understand that they DONT repeat things that are NOT rewarding.

Note... the way to make things unrewarding is to remove the opportunity to do that thing, distract the pup, walk away from the pup.

Shouting, smacking etc doesnt work, either you frighten the pup or he will see that as a continuance of the game! Just like kids who are ignored when they are good and then rewarded with attention when they have a tantrum, puppies will be the same, make sure to reward the good and ignore/prevent the bad.

So back to your pup.

Snapping and biting is fun, why? Because it makes you do something.. pull your hand away, move around, speak.

Two things to do:

1/ Your puppy does need to chew/bite/play so provide him a means of doing that appropriately. Give him chewy toys, soft toys (yes even if he shreds them), food dispensing toys.

2/Stop rewarding the behaviour - if he starts biting shove a toy in his gob instead of your hand/face/feet etc. Yelp loudly and walk away from him if he is really over the top.
Stop children from behaving in a way that excites the puppy, ie running around being all squeaky and high pitched, always supervise them and be ready to stuff a toy in teh pups mouth BEFORE he chews on the child.

Be consistent about both these, if you dont provide him his own toys and chews he will chew your things (and if you leave htem lying around he will as well), puppies NEED to chew/bite things.

If you sometimes reward him biting you and sometimes dont he will try harder!

If he gets really silly and snappy, keep repeating the ignore thing.

Imagine his unwanted behaviour as being your 'off' switch, he bites, you 'switch off' and dont look at him, speak to him or be near him.

At first you will have to do this several times in a row before he gets the idea that you REALLY wont respond to his behaviour.

It will work, but you have to keep doing it each and every time, because in the puppies mind, this behaviour has always worked.

Just like us, dogs repeat things that work, and then when that thing doesnt work...... they try harder!

This is like, turning the key in your car. It always works.... and then one day the car doesnt start. So you try again!

Its important to stick to NEVER giving him attention for this and preventing anyone else giving him attention.

Going back to the car analogy, if your car sometimes takes two goes at starting.... you will always try a couple of times if it doesnt start first time.

If your car starts sometimes first time, sometimes after two goes, sometimes after five goes..... you'll try for ages before you give up!

Puppy is no different and it will take a little while before he realises that what used to work will never work again and so theres no point trying.

This principal applies to lots of things with dogs (barking for attention, pulling on the lead, etc), the 'other side' of it is that you do have to provide sufficient attention/training/exercise so your dog doesnt need to bite to get you to play, bark for attention, etc.

For example, its no good expecting a dog not to go loopy when you take him for a walk if you only take him once in a blue moon. Its no good trying to stop a dog barking for attention if he spends all day being ignored.

So for each problem, theres a few things to do to effect a cure rather than just one, and each thing that crops up, ask yourself WHY rather than just 'stop it'.

Good luck with your pup, mines (8 weeks old) asleep in her crate :) it is so nice when they are asleep!

Em
emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

Thank you so much! I have one of the its me or the dog books and been trying to follow it! How long should i leave befor i return to him to play? I think Ive been going back to soon so he sees it as a follow on from play. Also is it ok to play tug with him at this point? Its been the only way Ive been able to get him to pay any intrest in his toys but i dont want to encourage the pulling on my trousers etc. I have got him loads of stuff to chew so far hes being really good and only chewing on stuff that gets the ok. I didnt want him to leave his mum for a bit longer but sadly they were having trouble coping with the litter :( ( not a breeder just some muppet who wanted puppies :() i really want to get him trained well i know he is going to need it to be a happy well rounded dog. Thanks again for the reply.
emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth »

Its hard to say if you are going back too soon or too late, both can happen.

You need to wait long enough for him to go 'oh... no game... oh thats not fun' and then go back.

At first he will go 'oh YAY game' and go back to biting you, so you go away again, and keep going away (or you can, if he isnt going for feet/ankles etc), try just standingup so hands and face are away from him, fold your arms and just stare at the ceiling, which is equally Not Fun for puppies.

If his breeders were muppets then he is in all honesty far better away from them sooner, but you have to work harder to replace the lessons he will have missed.

If you know people with healthy well dogs, get him meeting those NOW, I know he isnt vaccinated yet (personally i prefer to wait until after 12 weeks to vaccinate as then it needs doing just once, rather than twice as he will have no maternal antibodies, which kill vaccine dead straight away and is why puppy jabs need repeating).

If you wait until he is fully jabbed, you will have missed out on a critical learning period, its only a few short weeks of risk and these risks can be minimised.

Dont let him go on the floor in areas where theres a lot of dog muck, unhealthy dogs etc, so if you know its an area with a lot of street dogs, avoid.

DO let him meet sensible adult dogs (get used to accosting dog owners and asking if their dog is safe to meet your dog), and lots of people and other animals.

This will get him used to everything (introduce him to everything you want him steady with NOW, and pair these meetings with treats and cuddles etc), if he is fearful, resist the urge to reassure him, in fact that often rewards fear, instead act as if its no big deal and prevent the situation becoming more scary.

Staffies unfortunately tend not to be so good with other dogs, and i dont think this is really down to an inherent aggressive nature.

I actually think that the real truth is, staffies have a VERY high pain threshold, far higher than most dogs. So as puppies they learn to play hard, very hard.

When they meet other dogs, they play hard and get shouted at. Being a terrier it only takes a few tellings off, perhaps a couple of over the top tellings off from more insecure dogs, and they figure out 'hey, s*d this for a game of soldiers, next time ill kick HIS butt first, before he can get me!'....

And then you have an aggressive dog.

Keep his meetings with other dogs sweet, reward good behaviour and put a stop quite fast to over the top 'hard' play.

As far as tuggy games go, these are fine, natural and fun. Apply the same rules as to other kinds of play, IF it gets out of hand, stop. You neednt let go of the toy, just stop tugging back, just hold on, remove eye contact, dont speak and go 'dead' and the second he stops and looks at you adn goes 'errrrr, what happened' start again.

Have a read of the clicker training thread in this forum as well as he can start that right now (im starting tomorrow with the Wonder Pup as she is seriously smart and needs something to DO, shes 8 weeks...)

Socialising, and training will give him more to do with his brain and this will tire him out so he doesnt need to hurtle about biting everything.

Pups learn SO well at this age, my little lurcher was 6 and a half weeks when i got him... by 7 weeks he could sit, down, roll over, stand and stay for about 5 seconds. All with clicker training :)

Let us know how you get on, he sounds like a lucky pup to have found you!

Em
emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

So hes ok to meet other dogs and go out?( Theses a group garden here that Ive never seen a dog in so was going to try there first) Ive been told so many times he cant i been keeping him in. :( i know it must be boring for him spending all day in and i cant wait to get him outside to explore new smells etc plus it will wear him out and give him that well needed exercise! Im starting clicker training today :) off up town to get one later! Cant wait. He is a fast learner bless him he knows jumping up gets him no where now as Ive ignored it and sits nicely if he want attention going to start the training today! He also gets lots of praise when he is playing with his toys. Wish me luck!
emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth »

I cant guarantee to you that your puppy wont pick up something from going out. No one can... but, equally, I can't guarantee you that YOU wont track something in from outside and pass it on to puppy that way.

If you make sure that the dogs are healthy and well mannered and you dont put him down to run around on heavily fouled areas he should be as safe as he can be.

If you DONT start his education now, including out and about (carried as its too far to walk for long, carry him mostly, pop him down to meet other dogs etc and to rest your arms), I can be fairly certain that he will find it harder to learn about life and how to be a steady sensible dog.

To me its a risk im willing to take and I minimise these things wherever possible, but Kelda has been to another dogs house yesterday and met a dog unknown to me as well, a Bullmastiff i saw outside the shop - he looked fit and healthy and so i let them sniff one another (i did ask his owner).

I have today had a friend visit who has three dogs, these dogs are walked all over the place and so its possible she could bring along something from her dogs or that her dogs have picked up on their walks...

But the benefits in being socialised well from an early age are huge, for you, you have a breed that sadly has a bad reputation, for me i have a dog who is going to be far larger than the average and for both these reasons we more than most NEED to have our dogs socialised extremely well.

Society is becoming less and less tolerant of dogs so our dogs have a lot to learn to become accepted in public.

Good luck... though i feel you don't need luck... you have common sense!
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Mattie
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Post by Mattie »

I can't remember who said it, think it may have been John Fisher, there are more dogs pts because of aggression caused by lack of socialisation as puppies, than die from distemper, parvo, leptos etc.

Early puppy socialisation is a must, Bonnie, one of my dogs wasn't socialised as a pup and she doesn't know how to greet other dogs although she lives with 5 others. There was a reason for this, both her back legs were broken in an RTA and she had to spend 2 months on crate rest.

Many people put their puppy in a bag in front of them when taking them out so they don't get tired carrying them. :lol:
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
emma-louise
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Post by emma-louise »

quick update :D

the snapping has almost stopped now hes learning so fast he dont need to be shown often to get the idea! weve got sit down to a tea and we are using the clicker! its going well :D

hes going for his jabs tonight so tomoro (dont want to stress him more after the vets) im going to see how he gets on with one of the neighbours dogs if she dosent mind. i do carry him out and about a lot as i like to spend as much time with him as i can when im not at work and it means he gets to come out and explore and meet other people as well.

i never thought about the tracking stuff in myself! :roll: im going to find some nice quiet areas that he can go down on the floor and explore as well
thank you for the advice
i will keep you updated how he gets on
emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

darn spoke to soon!!!!
the little monster had a really good day sunday now hes making up for it :evil:

ok so from the advice from here what ive been doing is...........

when he snaps i try giving him a toy to chew on instead
if he carries on i fold my arms and ignore him
if i can i walk away and turn my back on him
if im on the sofa and hes biting my feet i move my legs out of his way
lots of praise when hes being a good boy and playing with his toys
lots of running around in the back garden morning and night
praise when hes playing nicely with me

this is what ive come up against............

there is no one i know with a dog that i can introduce him to the only people i know with dogs just arnt confident that their dog would react well to the pup which is fair enough i wouldnt like to intro him to a nasty dog

the only puppy training school and puppy socolising classes are in the area are in the middle of no where and with out a car i just cant get to them!

when i do the above ie walk away or ignore him he goes for it more ok so i need to keep ignoring him but he has really started nipping now and i have to move away cos it hurts! this morning i had to physically remove him from the room as he was biting so much. obvously he now sees this as fun because when he bites i move my arm/hand/ face away from him but i cant stand the biting hes got strong jaws for a puppy!!

if i walk away he just rags on my trouser legs even when ive stopped

he dosent bite any one else just me!

i actually smacked him by accident last night he jumped up and bit my boob :oops: (ok you can stop laughing now!) but it was such a shock and hurt so much my natural reaction was to bat the pain away which ment i caught him this resulted in him going nuts barking at me growling at my hand when even i went to go to him for about 10 min i felt sooooo rotten,

im determined to get this sorted! what do i do when hes biting i know to ignore him but its just not that easy when hes hurting :(

im going to see if i can find (and afford!) a trainer who can come and advise me as there are a lot in my area that will do house calls.
dont want to let this little guy down hes so lovely the rest of the time but this biting is ruining all the fun time with him :(

help !!

ps thanks for the advice so far tho!
emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

just a quick add on!
ive been reading the sticky at the top of the page and embeth was describing how litter mates react to over the top play ie yelp - ignore - eventually bark and snap at pup. now i dont want to shout at him as every where ive read it says it wont help BUT as a last resort if ive yelped (dont need to put that on!) and removed eye contact and turned away from him and ignored him for a few min and hes still insisting on biting lumps out of my arm should i snap at him???

ps- the dog sitters there and guess who hasnt been bitten once! :evil: i must just taste good :roll:
emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth »

Mm...

Im watching my dogs now with Kelda ... the one dog who gets harrassed constantly is Abby who is the one dog who is always giving her a reaction..

Dilly and Pteppy ignore her totally, Rocky will just occasionally snap if she pushes it too far, so she ignores them...

Try yelping, but try really going for it and yelping as if he broke your arm!

Keep at it, I suspect he is trying harder because previously, it worked.... now it doesnt and he has to try harder before he realises its not working at all.

Bummer about the other dog socialisation, I know how it is without a car!

Can you see if you can find a dog trainer who would come to you, who has sensible, puppywise older dogs? Whereabouts are you its possible someone can recommend a trainer/behaviourist.

Em
emma-louise
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

hummmm

never thought of it like that! i guess if some thing stopped working for me i would try harder! right then guess its total drama yelping for me then :D
emma-louise
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Post by emma-louise »

he he been home at lunch to see him i should win an oscar!!
my throat is killing me from all the high pitch yelping proper yelped at him and hey he stopped doing it and started licking me :D

lets hope we can both keep it up and he dont just up the biting to eating me lol
Ocelot0411
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Post by Ocelot0411 »

Erm hate to tell you this Emma Lousie, but the licking is just them tenderising the flesh for a full scale feasting!! Tee hee, only joking. Well done you that's a brilliant result, in super quick time too. My yelping was rubbish, which is why I got munched for ages. The licking things a really good sign though as firstly it shows that he has realised that he has hurt you and secondly, perhaps most importantly, by licking you he is showing that he didn't mean to hurt you and is trying to make you better. Bless him. :D
emma-louise
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Post by emma-louise »

silly so and so panicked when i read that first line!!!!

not getting to comfy yet he got the idea of stopping snapping quick but then the next day went on to biting the little monkey :)
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