Exercise Advice

[Esprit64]

Hello: I was just watching Victoria's program today in which she suggested tunnel walking for an aggressive dachsund needing to spend energy. The tunnel activity was a good suggestion because of this breed's obvious background of using tunnels to hunt badgers--its natural instincts being stimulated and thus rewarded.

I have a 2 1/2 year old lab mix (German Shorthair Pointer and Border Collie). She is walked/off-leash trail-walked twice daily for 1/2 to 1 hour. In addition, she is taken out 2-3x daily to chase chew toys thrown. However, despite all this exercise, she still seems to have high-energy needs unmet. Once back indoors, it isn't long before she's standing near me--or pacing--looking to go out again.

I wondered--in agility, there are poles set-up for a dog's high jump. Would this be an excellent activity for my dog to do, based on her breed mix? Or, is there another specific exercise I can do that can finally make this dog so tired, she WANTS to rest?

Thanks for any help.

[Sarah83]

Do you do any mental exercises with her? Sounds like physical exercise isn't enough for her, she needs to use her brain. I teach my dog all sorts of silly tricks just for the mental stimulation and it tires him out just as much, if not more, as a longish walk does.

[Olivers mama]

Espirit,

You & I watched the same show this am! (Altho I prefered the earlier one regarding Shepherds, because we've recently adopted a Rescue Shepherd. )

Victoria has used these flat toys that have compartments to hold treats. I think they're sold at Petsmart. She said it gives a dog a good mental workout, trying to open the compartments to get to the treats. Also, if you could find an agility course close-by, I'd take the dog thru the whole mental & physical workout. But I think I'd try the treats-hidden-in-a-box thing first.

Becky

[emmabeth]

Yep - mental exercise required here, more physical exercise is just going to result in a fitter dog... who needs more physical exercise.

On your walks - what does she do? Is she working hard to focus and pay attention to you and earn reward from you? Or is she doing her own thing off leash, or is she just doing a route-march..

All three types of walk there could provide the same level of physical exercise but not at allt he same level of mental exercise.

At home - by all means play fetch, but add in new elements where shes got to work first, to earn the toy being thrown to retrieve it (you can mix that up with food rewards too so neither thing gets 'old'). For example.... can she wait (in a position she chooses or in one you choose, say, sit, down or stand) whilst you throw one toy... then heel with you a short distance, away from that toy... then chase a second thrown toy... retrieve it, THEN go after the first toy?

You can vary games like that as much as you like, though obviously start out easy and prevent her from making errors or she would just get confused and frustrated.

Mixing up fast energetic stuff like chasing, wtih slow controlled stuff like waiting, heeling etc is HARD mental work as is listening and paying attention to what you ask, rather than guessing at what you are going to do and dashing off before you asked her.

Indoors - puzzle toys such as the Nina Ottosen range are good, as is replacing some or all of a meal in a bowl, with meals in food dispensing toys such as Kongs, Linkables, BusterCubes, Tug-a-Jugs etc..

You could also do some clicker training - start out with the basics and then build up to back-chaining long sequences of tricks. Teach her the names of various items then teach her to retrieve them, then teach her to find them, then retrieve them...

Plenty of stuff to be having a go at there

[Esprit64]

Dear Emmabeth: Wow. WHAT EXCELLENT IDEAS you've given me. You're right--as are previous posters. This dog needs mental exercise. When you mentioned such things, I recalled how she reacts when I make her wait before she can chase a toy. She's like a nervous horse at the starting gate. She really wants to go but struggles to wait until I release her.

I had problems with her on-leash. She started out pulling out to the side and to the front. We fixed that by having me walk out any door first. It took awhile. But every time she pulled to the side or front, we stopped, I made her heel (sit at my side), then we started walking again. I had to put the heel training in because just stopping, she didn't get it. Having her do another behavior interrupted the excitement and caused her to focus on me more.

That's on-leash. Off-leash, we are in a very large recreation park filled with people and other off-leash dogs. We have open-air and forested trails to roam. I carry a chew toy with me. Again, arriving at the park, she's that horse bristling to get out of the starting gate. She's expected to sit and wait before I open the car door. When released, she bolts out, WANTS that chew toy thrown. So, I vary the off-leash walks with toy chasing and just walking, and she's allowed to roam, sniff, meet dogs, swim--experience freedom. I use the park as a reward because when on-leash, she's expected to be more restrained. At the park, she feels free to make her own choices, she's behaved and socializes with other dogs well.

I'm going to use your ideas. Thank you. It's exactly what she needs.

Another question. When she returns her chew toy to me for another throw, she is always reluctant to give it up. I give her the signal to drop-it. Instead, she nervously/rapidly chews the toy while on the ground and will not drop it. I don't understand this behavior as she clearly wants me to throw the toy again--so why won't she give it up? I have a second toy in my hand ready-to-throw, I've tried giving her food reward when she finally drops it, but nothing I'm doing is changing this habit. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Noobs]

Another question. When she returns her chew toy to me for another throw, she is always reluctant to give it up. I give her the signal to drop-it. Instead, she nervously/rapidly chews the toy while on the ground and will not drop it. I don't understand this behavior as she clearly wants me to throw the toy again--so why won't she give it up? I have a second toy in my hand ready-to-throw, I've tried giving her food reward when she finally drops it, but nothing I'm doing is changing this habit. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Try this - don't wait for her to drop the first toy, just throw the second toy. If she really wants to go after it, she'll drop the first one to run after the second one.

The other option is to teach her to drop during training sessions and proof it everywhere, and hopefully it should translate to the fetch game.

[emmabeth]

Its a highly valuable item, and although she really loves chasing it and fetching it back... she also loves having it in her mouth, it being hers and chewing on it. So theres the conflict, she wants it.... but she wants you to throw it...b ut for you to throw it she has to give it up and she wants it. and then when she does you throw it and she waaaaaaants it so she goes and gets it..... and and and...

I would get an identical one and play swapsies to throw.

Away from the park, teach her retrieve in a more formal way with another item, preferably somethign that ISNT so great to chew, like a retrieval dumbell or dummy. Once shes learned that you can then transfer it to another item that is a bit more exciting, OR another location that is a bit more stresseful and gradually work your way up through the stages back to a really high value item that is as much fun to have on her own as it is to give you and have thrown.

[Esprit64]

I've already tried having another chew-toy ready to throw before she brings the other back. The offering of the ready-to-go chewy isn't enough to convince her to let the one in her mouth go. As for the suggestion of a less desirable item to throw, I'll have to think on that one. This dog seems to love everything that can be put into her mouth--and doesn't seem to realize anything is too big either. She goes after my exercise ball, which is taller than her!

And she really has impulse control issues. I just got back from the park, where she was exposed to people, other dogs walking/running off-leash, noise, etc. Yikes, she is willful. I am trying to teach her to remain calm in the car, to leave the car calmly (not bolting), then, walking by my side without pulling. However, with all the stimulation, she's like a poorly-trained racehorse, jumping up and down in the starting gate, won't listen to commands. So, after giving one verbal command to "heel," I stand and wait. And wait. And wait. I try walking the opposite direction. This dog doesn't seem to get "it." She is EXTREMELY focused on her chew-toy (which while walking away from the car, was left on the ground near the car). All she kept doing was wanting to turn around, run back to the car and get her chew toy.

I'm really focused on this aspect of training because for some reason, she is getting more aggressive. I really need her to know I'm the pack leader. This dog is 2 1/2 years old, great life/no traumas ever, suddenly, she's being protective of her food and when strangers approach our car and she's got her head out the window, she's snarling/barking. The other day, my husband came into our bedroom, she's on the floor, he asked her to move, she snapped at him. Why would a dog like this with no traumatic issues suddenly at 2 1/2 years develop aggression issues?

[Wicket]

And she really has impulse control issues. I just got back from the park, where she was exposed to people, other dogs walking/running off-leash, noise, etc. Yikes, she is willful. I am trying to teach her to remain calm in the car, to leave the car calmly (not bolting), then, walking by my side without pulling.

First off, I'd train these behaviors (heel, exiting and being in the car) separately before bringing them all together, gradually building up different environments and distraction. If she's in a strange environment and distraction she's never seen before, lower the criteria. If she's too overwhelmed, go back a level and work more until you're confident that she can succeed in the next one. These two articles can help with proofing: here (more dog geeky) and here.

However, with all the stimulation, she's like a poorly-trained racehorse, jumping up and down in the starting gate, won't listen to commands. So, after giving one verbal command to "heel," I stand and wait. And wait. And wait. I try walking the opposite direction. This dog doesn't seem to get "it." She is EXTREMELY focused on her chew-toy (which while walking away from the car, was left on the ground near the car). All she kept doing was wanting to turn around, run back to the car and get her chew toy.

The simple solution to have her not overstimulated and work on a less distracting environment. If she really wants her chew toy, make her work for it by using that as a reward OR if she's ready for more difficulty, heel and hold the chew toy at the same time. Remember, the dogs determine the rewards, not us.

I'm really focused on this aspect of training because for some reason, she is getting more aggressive. I really need her to know I'm the pack leader. This dog is 2 1/2 years old, great life/no traumas ever, suddenly, she's being protective of her food and when strangers approach our car and she's got her head out the window, she's snarling/barking. The other day, my husband came into our bedroom, she's on the floor, he asked her to move, she snapped at him. Why would a dog like this with no traumatic issues suddenly at 2 1/2 years develop aggression issues?

What she needs is patience. From your post, you sound frustrated (and forgive me if I misunderstood you.) What I've read and watched of Cesar Millan, this is not the behavior of a pack leader. Pack leaders are *calm* but assertive. It takes a long of time and effort to train a dog. Just try to set her up for success!

Out of curiosity, how have you and your husband acted towards her food bowl or in the car? Have you trained her to move on cue or just "claimed your space" with body blocking? Does she have a clean bill of health?

[Esprit64]

Hi, Wicket: Thank you for your advice and the linked info. I've downloaded it and will review it at length.

My dog's trained behaviors are more reliable at home than in public. I thought that I would introduce training her more at the park to try and get consistency of behaviors regardless of the stimulation around us. I haven't read your linked articles yet, but I briefly saw that this idea was not a good one for many reasons your article details. OK, I'll be more simple in that approach--understood.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was impatient, I didn't mean to infer that. I work hard at being calm and patient while training. I'm more mystified by the aggressive change in my dog's behavior more than anything. She's been to the vet recently, perfectly healthy, no issues.

Our home environment consists of all older adults/no kids (even from surrounding neighborhood), I'm with her 24/7, it's very calm/quiet here, the only other animal in the home is our pet cat, which my dog loves. And she's properly exercised/physically stimulated often throughout the day (I'm working on mental stimulation), thus this aggression absolutely cannot come from pent-up energy. Regarding the food bowl, she's asked to sit in the corner and may not eat until she's released (5-10 seconds). Maybe I can start pretending to eat from her bowl first, then have her feed from small pieces taken from my hand?

Victoria did one program when the offending dogs were barking while traveling. The curtains temporarily placed inside the car were then closed disallowing visual stimulation. In another segment, when friends visited an owner that the dog would otherwise bark/snarl at, Victoria suggested the cue "friend" followed by a food treat. Perhaps when my dog's got her head sticking out the window and she starts bad behavior, I can roll up the window quickly, say "calm?" followed by food treats?

Thanks again all for this great information.

[Noobs]

Your dog doesn't need a pack leader. Your dog needs a teacher. We can't expect dogs to do things because "me human, you dog = dog listen to human no matter what." That is what trainers that use pack leader theory are striving for, and that's setting everyone up to fail to begin with.

You are introducing too many distractions too soon and too fast, that is why you're having trouble at the park. It's not about eating out of her bowl first and making her wait for up to 10 seconds. A simple "sit" right as you're placing the food bowl down is enough, there's no need to have her sit there and salivate while you make her wait to eat.

[Wicket]

Hi, Wicket: Thank you for your advice and the linked info. I've downloaded it and will review it at length.

My dog's trained behaviors are more reliable at home than in public. I thought that I would introduce training her more at the park to try and get consistency of behaviors regardless of the stimulation around us. I haven't read your linked articles yet, but I briefly saw that this idea was not a good one for many reasons your article details. OK, I'll be more simple in that approach--understood.

If she's good inside the house, then move out to the back yard. For a simple distraction, you can use your body, such as waving hands, or change your body position (in front, on the side, etc.) with stationary positions.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was impatient, I didn't mean to infer that. I work hard at being calm and patient while training. I'm more mystified by the aggressive change in my dog's behavior more than anything. She's been to the vet recently, perfectly healthy, no issues.

Understood.

Our home environment consists of all older adults/no kids (even from surrounding neighborhood), I'm with her 24/7, it's very calm/quiet here, the only other animal in the home is our pet cat, which my dog loves. And she's properly exercised/physically stimulated often throughout the day (I'm working on mental stimulation), thus this aggression absolutely cannot come from pent-up energy. Regarding the food bowl, she's asked to sit in the corner and may not eat until she's released (5-10 seconds). Maybe I can start pretending to eat from her bowl first, then have her feed from small pieces taken from my hand?

I'd do the sit/stay and then leave her alone while she eats. Once she runs off from the food bowl, you can pick it up and start the process until the next meal. Generally, herding breeds like Border Collies need more aerobic exercise, perhaps you can start running or going at a brisk pace.

Victoria did one program when the offending dogs were barking while traveling. The curtains temporarily placed inside the car were then closed disallowing visual stimulation. In another segment, when friends visited an owner that the dog would otherwise bark/snarl at, Victoria suggested the cue "friend" followed by a food treat. Perhaps when my dog's got her head sticking out the window and she starts bad behavior, I can roll up the window quickly, say "calm?" followed by food treats?

Thanks again all for this great information.

You reward when the dog is calm, not once she starts the bad behavior. I have more to say but I gotta go for now.

[Dakine'smama]

I know emmabeth brought up the different toys that mentally stimulate dogs but mine has a favorite. Have you guys seen the wobbler? It is a kong toy that challenges dogs while giving them treats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KnMOlbt ... r_embedded

[Wicket]

Victoria did one program when the offending dogs were barking while traveling. The curtains temporarily placed inside the car were then closed disallowing visual stimulation. In another segment, when friends visited an owner that the dog would otherwise bark/snarl at, Victoria suggested the cue "friend" followed by a food treat. Perhaps when my dog's got her head sticking out the window and she starts bad behavior, I can roll up the window quickly, say "calm?" followed by food treats?

In car episode, the dogs were traveling with the curtains up. If they were calm, Victoria lowered the curtain slightly. If they acted up again while the curtains were down, the curtains went up. It was only when they were calm (not barking) that Victoria rewarded them with seeing the environment outside. While I haven't seen the other episode in awhile, dog wouldn't be given a treat for barking or snarling since that would encourage more of it. Instead, the dog was given treats for being calm and non-reactive around strangers, thus increasing that behavior and putting it on cue as "friend."

Positive training isn't about waiting until the dog does something bad to correct it, but setting up to succeed so that no corrections are necessary. Emmabeth has written about training for the car, I'll PM her so she can comment here.

[Horace's Mum]

Just wanted to add that it is a very common thought that dogs such as border collies need lots of exercise. They don't necessarily, they just need the right type of exercise. When they are working on the farm they will spend most of their time lying around waiting for their chance to work, and then they have a period of controlled exercise (when do you ever see them running wildly around the sheep? they are usually moving very slowly and steadily, and lying down for a fair amount of time) which is mental and physical, and then they are back to downtime. Farm collies are very often kept in kennels unless they are working. So in many cases, a hyper collie does not actually need more and more and more, but might just need to be taught how to relax and be given permission to relax. They sometimes need to know that their responsibilities are over for the minute, so they can switch off. So teaching them tricks and agility and games and lots of exercise is great, but teaching them how to relax and switch off is just as important. This is why a collie will often come in from a walk even more excited than when they left - they are so switched on by the smells and sights, but they don't know how to switch it off again. So it might be useful alongside doing more mental stuff, to also teach you dog how to be still and quiet, in a specific place (often where crates come in handy, but I use a mat).