Vengeful Peeing In House

[emmabeth]

From your description - dog frightened by the sound of a large truck, reluctant to go outside to pee because of that, so pees indoors when she gets the opportunity.

Shes not vengeful, spiteful, wicked or anything else like that. Shes scared.

She doesnt pee in front of you because she associates that with unpleasantness - you tell her off right if she did it in front of you.

She has no reason to go outside because a/ its scary and b/ theres no reward for doing so.

So she waits until she can, and then does it where she can.

Your dog is a VERY unhappy animal - her new owners need to know she frightened, anxious and worried by a fair number of things, including people and loud noises. They will need to give her plenty of rewards for going in the right places (and that will be very difficult if shes scared to go in front of people) and give her no opportunity to go in the wrong places by using a crate, by using a leash attaching her to their belt, by giving her multiple opportunities to go outdoors in a safe, secure and quiet place.

They will need to be kind, patient and have a good basic understanding of dog behaviour. Dogs cannot do spite or revenge or things like that, these are purely HUMAN behaviours.

If you wanted to, read these forums, change YOUR attitude and allow a different perspective on these things. Ditch your ideas about a tiny little dog trying to wreak revenge upon you - even if you don't believe me that shes scared, can it do you any harm to take our word for it and treat her as if she was anyway?

When you have a dog who is not potty trained at all, or is fearful to go outside, as you currently do, you must NEVER yell at them for making a mess indoors. If you yell at them after they did it, they don't know why you yelled and you make the dog MORE anxious (and thus, more likely to make a mess indoors in the first place), if you do it when they are in the act, you still dont get them to understand what you mean. They learn it is dangerous to toilet in front of you.

Since they have not got the confidence nor a good reason to go outside (because the inside of your house is NOT all considered 'special' by your dog as it is by you!), since they do not have the same concepts of clean/dirty as we do (as far as a dog is concerned, if it isnt in their bed or their food/water then thats fine!) you MUST have a dog feel safe toiletting in front of you, so that you can deliver a reward immediately (wtihin a second or two) the dog toilets in the right place.

If a dog is fearful of toiletting in front of you, you will not have the opportunity to get that reward and that message 'yes! good dog' across and so the toiletting issue is incredibly hard to solve.

I hope you are a big enough person to admit you are wrong here and make use of the help that is available, even if you do decide not to keep her, changing what you are doing right now will mean you stand a greater chance of her finding a new home and a greater chance of that being her forever home. You do owe her that much.

[Mattie]

She has not had a horrible life. She has been very well treated.

Being used as a breeding machine then passed from pillar to post in various homes is well treated, that is a terrible life for a dog, bet you wouldn't do this to a human, she may be a dog but she has needs which are not being met at the moment.

At first I thought her "issues" were from loneliness of the other dogs, but the wonderful gal who had her last, said that with dogs or people, she is a dirty fighter and sneaky. This IS her personality, she will always be the same.

She knows nothing about dogs, dogs are not dirty fighters and sneaky, they don't know how to be, that is humans. She is just a terrified little dog than needs a chance.

I just wanted to find out if there was something that someone could recommend. But no. She is house trained, and crate trained for travel. And she has had a wonderful wonderful environment; and has the blessing of my working from home; but she has a wicked little vindictive attitude over any issue that she interprets negatively. She has alot of negative attitudes over things that never should bother anyone.

She is what humans have made her, dogs are not born bad, they are turned bad by humans. Often we put onto others the way we are, if we are nasty and vindictive we call others that, if we have negative attitudes etc we call others that. You never hear the gently, lovely people who will help anyone say these things about others not even animals.

The last owner that the breeder tried her with provided her with a wonderful life as well. She took her with her everywhere. Only issue I had was that the gal carried her everywhere, which I am sure she loved, as I refuse to carry her, she is a dog, and can use her own legs and feet, and has become to love her twice a day walks.

You are right, she is a dog and should walk, if you look though posts on here you will see that we don't like dogs being picked up either, to many dogs they are terrified of being picked up, this carrying her around may have done a lot of damage to her.

But I will not make excuses for pottying in the house over life happening issues. It is not my nor her problem if the truck "rumbles" past outside of our yard, it is not my nor her problem if someone's dog down the street screams or barks for whatever issue. And she has to pee on whomever picks her up when they place their hands on her to put her down again. That is just vindictive.

No it is just a very frightened dog that has been made that way by humans. What are you frightened of, spiders, snakes, mice etc. Think about being put in a room full of what you are frightened of, what would your reaction be? Very frightened, humans also pee and poo themselves when they are frightened, this is why she is doing this.

No one has ever dropped her, no one has ever used her for a 'mock football' and of that I am sure. I know the last 3 breeder/owners, and the LOVE their dogs; perhaps too much so. No I needed help with a vindictive little attitude. Thank you.

There are more ways to abuse a dog than dropping, beating, using as a ball etc. mental abuse is far worse, this dog is terrified, you are the vindictive person not her, if you were not vindictive you would think of her first not yourself, all you are thinking about is yourself, she doesn't matter, you don't love her or you wouldn't be like this with her.

What have you to loose by treating her as we suggest, you may be pleasantly surprised at the change for the better but from your posts, you won't do that because all you are thinking about is yourself.

[Nettle]

I'm with Fundog.

But even so, others might read this thread and learn useful things.

[ladybug1802]

She is perfectly fine. She only has vengeance issues and I am not putting up with it. I have had dogs all of my life, and have never had pee issues with any of them. I have had Shetland Sheepdogs, Afghan Hounds, Whippets, Dalmatians and a Jack Russell. No one has ever had sanitation issues.

I have to say your post has made me really angry and upset. Poor poor little dog. You say she has not had a hirrible life and has been treated 'well'....how would YOU lived with a family member who then decided they didnt want you there...so you moved to another one who then also didnt want you and you moved on.....and imagine this going on 6 or 7 times. Added to that she has been bred from a few times. She has had NO stability whatsoever. In her life that is once a year....she just gets comfortable with one owner and she gets moved on. WHY has she been moved on so much - its no wonder she has issue.

BUT - as everyone has said it is NOT 'vengeance' issues!!! In fact I am so so surpsied that if you have had 'dogs all your life' this idea even crossed ytour mind. When the lorry went past and spooked her....why on earth do you think that he peeing in the house is her being 'mad'?? More likely she is insecure, doesnt know whether she is coming or going and is one stressed out little dog.

You posted on here to get advice, and you have got a LOT of good avice from the people on here...yet you STILL talk of 'vengeance' issues!! Dogs dont think like humans do....poor poor little girl. As sad as I think it is that you have put her 'up for sale'(why not be more concerned with finding her a good home rather than just somoene who can pay the most for her?) i feel it may be the best thing for her - find her a home with someone who is willing to work with her, train her and work through her issues.

But seeing as you posted for advice, and everyone has given good advice, along the same lines, and it is YOU that are in the minority, do you not think that on this occasion you could put your pride on a back burner, admit you MAY be wrong and try the ways suggested? What harm can it do? And seeing as you work from home and seem to think you have given her a good home, why not try a different way. My rescue dog has a few issues, which all stem from nervousness.....but on the face of it, to a 'passer by' he wouldnt appear nervous all the time unless you know what you are looking for. I know for a fact if I wasnt working with a hehaviouristm and working on all the great advice I have got on here, Dylan would be getting worse instead of better. And a LOT of what has proven successful is MY behaviour and MY frame of mind - it makes a world of difference. Calmness verses nervousness/frustration - the dog picks up on every little emotion.....and acts accordingly. If she is nervous, you are frustrated and angry, she will feel even more nervous and insecure and is far more likely to pee in the house, when you are not there becaiuse she doesnt trust you.

[Sarah83]

I hope to god Fundog is right and it is a troll but sadly people who think this way do exist

[ladybug1802]

am I being blonde? What do you mean by a troll?

[Sarah83]

am I being blonde? What do you mean by a troll?

A forum troll is someone who deliberately posts things that they know will get a big and usually emotional response from the majority of people on the forum.

[ladybug1802]

Oh I see! I REALLY hope this is from a troll then....very sad otherwise.

[Mattie]

I'm with Fundog.

But even so, others might read this thread and learn useful things.

I agree Nettle, if one person learns from this thread then it will be worth the time and effort of writing the posts.

Unfortunately Ladybug there are people who treat dogs like this as well, they take on a dog and when the dog isn't what they want they are too lazy to do anything about it apart from sell the dog to someone else. It is the dogs that suffer because of these very selfish people who only think of themselves, spoilt brats comes to mind.

[Sarah83]

The whole peeing because they're mad at you for something seems to be a fairly common belief though. Same with chewing, so many people seem to think their dog chews stuff up because it's "getting it's own back" for something or other.

[Mattie]

That is because they are putting their own feelings as the dogs Sarah, you find that when people think of this type of behaviour as a dog getting revenge, they are very revengeful, when they say the dog is jealous, they are jealous people. Humans always put their own feelings onto others, it is the same when they are talking about humans as well as dogs.

How many of us have changed since using positive methods to train our dogs? I know I have, I don't get mad as must as I used to, I am more patient with both humans and animals, I just can't stand people who insist that the world is wrong and they are right

[ladybug1802]

Its just so sad. I think a lot of people think dogs come 'ready made'...house trained, obedience trained etc and when they find they dont, and they have to put work in to get the dog they want, they cant be botherdd. My friend has a lab that she 'rescued',......basically the old owners got it as a cute, fluffy Andrex puppy, and did nothing with him, then when he got big and a bit more of a handful and wasnt as 'cute' they wanted to rehome him because they rthought it was all the dogs fault!

I cant believe people think a dog would think "I know - I am not going to go to the toilet outside, but instead wait for my mum to take me in then leave the room, THEN go to the toilet"! No wonder there are so many dogs with issues!

Dylan, as you all now know, has issues which seem to stem from nervousness.......and yes, I admit, I would love to be able to have people over, leave Dylan loose as they come in and not have to worry about people stroking him and freaking him out.....but I am sure that, with time, and with me working in the right way, I will achieve this. But how sad that if he had been with someone else, he may well have been taken to another rescue centre or put to sleep....probably not because they have given it a damn good try, but because he hasnt turned out as they want him to automatically! People wouldnt put their kids into foster care if they started playing up now would they!!

[Mattie]

People wouldnt put their kids into foster care if they started playing up now would they!!

Some do, I know a lovely lady who was put into care when she was a normal teenager

[MichelleD]

Hmmm... I smell a troll.

Fundog, that was my first thought as well, given the vehemence of her (his?) first posts ...

[Fundog]

I'm glad you all were able to keep your heads and hearts together, and see through that. However, Nettle and Mattie DO make a very good point: if even one dog can be helped by someone reading this thread and having a "lightbulb moment," then it is totally worth all the effort. Because, afterall, there ARE people who are still stuck in the mentality of dogs being manipulative and vengeful, like humans.

On the other hand, who's to say this "troll" isn't just playing "devil's advocate" to get us to post all this, and to actually help a dog by causing a sensation?