Two Dogs... several issues... stress, in your face, etc..

[Serbrider]

Ok... so... small background. I have my dog. I have owned her for the past five years and a half years. I raised her in Serbia (in Europe), and, while we were there, she was an indoor dog, and while she wasn't PERFECT with her commands, she was calm, happy, satisfied, and... well... had manners.

I moved back to the US with my parents last year in July, and she followed in October... and since we couldn't keep her in the place where we were living at the time, she was shipped off to my grandparents' house four hours away.

Since then, the longest consecutive time I've ever spent with her was two weeks this summer, and then other than that it's been a couple of days to a week every month or two. And... also since then... she went from being a perfectly happy, content, and sweet dog, to how she is now... unhappy, obviously stressed, can't sit still for two minutes (when she used to be willing and eager to spend hours on end doing nothing but sit next to me), is distant, and will listen to probably two or three commands, when she used to be able to answer (though in her own "special" way... the darn independence terrier streak in her) to lots of different commands or words...

I can't totally blame my grandparents... my grandma is 71, and my grandpa is 81. They can't get out much to work with my dog or theirs (will get to their dog in a moment). I would have rather had my dog go somewhere else, but there was no other place, there was one place, but my dog ended up jumping the fence to follow me after I visited her. So... that wouldn't quite work.

But... whoever's to blame... I have problems.

I think that in part, some of the issues lie with my grandparents' dog. Never really trained much. Knows a few basic commands like come and sit, but for the most part, that dog... good grief. She's a lab. Named Bella. 5 or 6 years old I believe. Anyways, I go out there, sit down and call my dog to come to me, and she comes and shoves her face right into mine. Now... cuddling's cute, and I cuddle with my dog, and with Bella, but... I don't appreciate it when any kind of dog comes and starts climbing all over me to get a cuddling. That, and when I manage to push her off and call my dog, though not aggressively, she won't let my dog anywhere near me.

I love both of them... and most of their issues probably stem from a lack of socialization or human companionship in the past year (well, since October). I just find it frustrating, because while I can sit and calm an aggressive dog that is trying to kill everyone else... when it comes to actual training and dominance stuff... I have no idea what to do... I feel clueless.

I'll give any more information you guys might want, I wasn't quite sure what all to give...

Neither of the dogs are aggressive, they will fight each other for my attention (which annoys me), but never in a way where they'd physically harm each other. The worst they've done is take off each others collars. But... neither are fully happy.


(Oh... and don't get mad at me, I only just arrived back in the USA on Monday... and have been trying to assess the full extent of this since then)


ETA: Just some basic info

Dogs are both currently outdoor ONLY. My grandparents refuse to allow a dog anywhere inside the house... no matter what.

My dog is a pit bull x lab x who knows what heinz 57 mix, 5 1/2 years old, not horribly well socialized, but I was also 12 when I got her... and at that time didn't have access to books and such that encouraged such things, and my parents didn't care, but she's never attacked a dog, and as soon as I get past dorm life in college, she is going to be an only dog until the time comes to put her down.

My grandma's dog is a lab, 5-6 years old, only socialized as a little puppy, and then only up until 8 or 10 weeks, don't remember exactly how old she was when they got her. Apart from grandkids and the ten to twenty minutes my grandma is outside either to feed or to work on the land, she gets hardly any human contact.

They both have 10 acres to free roam, and another 30+ acres if they're allowed out with me/grandparents. I don't want to take my dog out with me, because she lost all recall she did at one point have. If she sees something interesting, she's gone. Not good, especially here where there are rattlesnakes and water moccasins.

My dog was raised on a poor quality grade food, but better quality than what they have here in the US, and she should currently be on Diamond Plus feed (I think that's what it's called), a higher quality food. I want to get her put on Blue Buffalo though. My Grandma's dog is on a diet turkey feed... she gains weight on air... so yeah.

Please let me know if you need anything else answered...

[Fundog]

Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to be able to help the situation until/unless one of two things happens: 1) you get the dog back into your loving care and training, or 2) you go live with your grandparents so you can work with both dogs on a daily basis. Meanwhile, as long as she is allowed to run around like a wild hooligan, she will remain a wild hooligan.

No, I don't really blame your grandparents-- they are farm people. I'm learning (because I just recently moved to farm country) that farm people generally don't consider dogs to be part of the family-- they are livestock, and only worth feeding if they contribute to the livelihood of the farm. Farm dogs are expected to be smart, doing their job and anything else expected of them, with little training. The better they are at their job, the better treatment they will receive in return. If they do not earn their keep, they generally get only the minimal care required to keep them alive. It makes me mad, and I have a hard time accepting this attitude, but there is nothing I can say to change these peoples' attitudes. Farm life is hard work, and very time consuming. The last thing farmers want to be bothered with, in addition to everything else that has to be done, is "playing" with a dog.

[Serbrider]

Forgot to add... sorry. I am currently living with my grandparents. I just moved in with them on Monday, and will be here for the next year... and will be 45 minutes away when I go to college. So... within easy reach even then.

So yeah...

Neither of the dogs currently have a "job" except to be there when grandkids come. I think it might be easier and more mentally stimulating to them if they did have one... I just can't think of anything that could really be a job for them.

I have been trying to spend time outdoors with them, but it's been around 95+ degrees... and I have cholinergic urticaria, meaning if I get too warm too fast, I break out in major rashes and get faint... so I usually don't do anything until the evening when it's more around 80 degrees... but then I get annoyed because my dog isn't "allowed" to come near me, and my grandparents dog is climbing all over me. The most fun I've had with them is when I went for some jogs with them, my grandma's dog running next to me (not all over me), and my dog running next to me, investigating something, then coming back. And it was good for them too... however... I haven't been able to run recently due to the heat.

So... I'm here on the farm with my grandparents, and can work with both dogs on a daily basis... I'm just not sure where to start.

[Fundog]

Oh, good! First place to start is individually, if you can find the time-- do training and exercising with each dog separately-- and you will achieve much greater success at a faster rate. As for "jobs," you can make up some, based upon the two breeds: labs are commonly bred as hunters, able to sniff out everything from missing children to drugs, to truffles and birds. So "finding" games with the lab are great: hide favorite toys and treats, and teach her to "find it." At first you may have to accompany her, and help her out, the way you would with a one year old toddler on her first Easter Egg Hunt. I honestly don't know that much about pit mixes, but since all dogs have a keener sense of smell than humans, you may be able to play the same games with her.

Meanwhile, go back to the beginning with each dog, as though you had just got them, and they don't know anything. It will be easier to get results from them if you do training with them privately and individually, at least at first.

Oh-- and for having cuddle time, try to manage it so the dog that is not having cuddles is locked away behind a fence somewhere, or in a kennel, so you can have special time with each dog separately.

[Serbrider]

Ok... so... I got to work some tonight... mainly working on the "me" command. At least... that's what I call it. All that means is that they pay attention to me (look at my face) instead of something else... I was hoping that would be helpful in getting other commands down, as well as catching their attention when out in the fields and stuff, but now I'm beginning to wonder if just their names would do that?

BUT... I don't think it's going too well. I think I'm just confusing her (I only did it on my dog, it was too late and I had a lot of work today, so I was too tired to do anything today with both dogs, will do some tomorrow and the next day though, with both of them), by praising what maybe wasn't a complete look at me, or not praising when she did, for example, she did quickly catch on that she had to look at me to get the treat... BUT... it wasn't at the "me" command that made her look at me...

I dunno... I thought it would be simple... maybe not. "Sit" is simple... but both know it... maybe not as "immediate" as I'd like... but... maybe that's where I should do it as a tune-up as well as practice for me?

[Leigha]

What you're calling "me" I learned as "watch me." Really, the words don't matter, you could call it bacon and eggs and it wouldn't matter. When we (my puppy and I) learned "watch me" I held a treat up to my face right next to my eye. Of course, that caused puppy to look up. As soon as the focus went from the treat to my eye I clicked and treated (I don't know if you're clicker training or not). To start with I literally treated as soon as the look was in my eye. It def didn't last long, but it was eye contact that I had asked for, so as soon as he did it he got a treat. With more practice I was able to hold the "watch me" longer and then I was able to go from holding the treat next to my eye to just using the signal of pinched fingers next to my eye.

Don't worry so much that you weren't able to work with both dogs today. It would probably be better for them and their training if you worked with them separately 'til they perfected the command in many settings before you try to get them to follow the same command together.

[Serbrider]

Thanks. I'm currently not clicker training... but I'm going to see if I can find a clicker at one of the dollar stores in town tomorrow... I think it might make things easier for my dog, so I can click as soon as she does it "right", and I'm not over-fumbling with the treats...

Thanks for the entire setup of the training... I was going through it way too fast... and I think that was what ended up confusing us both.

Like I said... I know how to work with extremely shy or aggressive dogs/cats/horses, and gain their trust (I'm actually currently also working with my grandma's "feral" donkey, so far she's gotten to within 1 foot of me when I'm in the car, and doesn't run away when I get within 100 feet of her without the car... Which is progress)... but as for the actual training process... I think I just tend to overthink it... which ends up making a complete idiot of myself. Then again... I've had a ton of practice working with gaining an animal's trust... and practically no experience (apart from my dog... which was never what I would consider a total success) in actually training.

And I need the experience... since I want to do animal rescue and rehab (as a Veterinarian) as my future career...

Thanks so much.

[Fundog]

You don't necessarily have to purchase an actual clicker-- you can use pretty much anything that makes the sound, that is easy for you to hold in your hand and push with your thumb at the right moment: a pen, or even a lid from a jar.

It sounds like you are getting the right idea-- it all takes practice and time, and none of us ever got it right the first time-- just keep practicing, don't give up, and try not to be too hard on yourself or your dogs. Oh, and remember to keep the sessions short-- just five or ten minutes-- so your dogs and you don't get burned out. Always try to end each session on a positive note, with a small success.

[Serbrider]

Thanks...

I would prefer an actual clicker... but if I can't find one... I might use a pen... it does make pretty much the same sound...

The session today was about 5-10 minutes... and then I spent another 5-10 minutes tossing the ball around... tomorrow I'll be spending more time. It was already really dark... and both dogs are black... :p So... it got to the point where they would scare me as they ran out from where they had gotten the ball. :p

[emmabeth]

I struggle with a bad back... and so do much of my clicker training sat down... so once you get the hang of this it might be something you can do during the day when its hot. it would certainly give both dogs something to think about - though you may need to put one dog elsewhere whilst you work on the other (i would recommend you train both dogs... as they will be much easier to manage ifthey both get some mental exercise).