Very overexcited dog

[sarged76]

I have a 2 year old yellow lab who is very overexcited all the time. When at home, he has to be the first out of the kennel, the first down the hall, the first down the stairs, the first out the door etc. We of course have him sit and wait every time he goes out the door or down the stairs. He can even wait while we walk down the stairs, but he shakes and is very over excited as he does this. Everywhere he goes in the house he is a almost a full sprint and he will slide across the floors as he comes to a stop. On walks he over reacts to EVERY dog who walks by. He become philo-erected, whines, barks and pulls on the leash. When we take him to parks, swimming, dog parks or anywhere we get the same response. By far the worse place to go is the vet, he is sooooo excited he will jump on people, bark, whine etc. With all this, he as NEVER been mean to any person or dog. He is actually very sweet and loving, it is just the initial meeting that he can't handle, unless he is at the vet then he never calms down.
Along with this he has what I believe is seperation anxiety. When I leave him in the kennel, he drools, whines, barks and goes into a panic. He has torn apart wire kennels to get out, then once out he destroys the house. We got, what we call "the jail," a hard plastic XL air line carrier that he has not found a way to get out of. Since the kennel is so big, we now put our other very gentle and sweet black lab in with him. This has helped tremendously when we are at work.
We have tried so many things in the past, and his kennel has always been a positive place, and never used for punishment. He is a very smart dog and can do every trick in the book, and has the ability to wait for short periods of time. We are on the verge of heavy medications to try and cull some of the excitement. Any help on how to calm down our awesome dog would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Labsrule]

Hello, I have 2 labs and know how mad they can be. At 2 your boy is still very immature. How much exercise does he get, is it all on lead? How long is he left each day? If he suffers with seperation anxiety he will be destructive when left, Labs are people dogs and hate being alone for long periods of time, what is a typical day for him? Could you employ a dog walker to break up the day for him, Labs are high energy dogs and need a lot of stimulation, being shut in a crate for ages just makes the situation and excitement worse.

My youngest one is a bit like yours, all enegry and action, not a minute to live type dog and does everything at 100 miles an hour. I have to work quite hard with him to keep him stimulated and focused to get him to be calmer. Is there any training classes you could join, this would help him to become a bit calmer around other dogs/people. Sure others will give you some help when you have posted more info. Sue.

[sarged76]

He gets quite a bit of exercise, though I doubt is nearly as much as he needs. Most of his exercise in on leash, though we do take him to dog parks a couple times a week. We also have a 100 acre park across the street from us were we go play ball 4-5 times a week. As far as how long he is left each day. I go to work around 11:00am and my wife gets home from work around 6:30pm, so about 7.5 hours. Though some days that is a little longer and others days much less. He is very destructive when left alone, that is why we got a heavy duty kennel for him. With a regular wire kennel he tears the kennel apart to escape and then chews up everything in our house.

He also has a bad habit of peeing all over the house. He will pee as he is running from his kennel to the back door, and he absolutely has to go out every 1-2 hours when we are home or he will pee in front of the back door. He don't pee when he is overexcited so I am not real sure what this is about. He has been to the vet and they saw it is psychological.

As far as having someone come to walk them in the day, we live out in the sticks and are not able to find anyone to come to the house to walk the dogs. We are looking into training classes for stimulation and socialization. We also take him to an "agility" course about once a week.

Our biggest concerns are the peeing in the house, and being able to leash walk him or go to a dog park without him scaring other dogs and dog owners.

Thanks

[emmabeth]

He sounds wired!

Is he by any chance a working type lab, rather than a show type?

What do you feed him on?

I would look at the sorts of exercise you do with him and also your household - are you a high energy family, whizzing about, always something happening people rushing around.. or are you calm and quiet at home?

I get the impression that his exercise might be winding him up more than it is calming him down - do you clicker train wtih him? I would try replacing some of the more high stress activities with low key 'thinky' type stuff.... dog parks are UBER stress, as can be agility (though I know it to have really helped a friends similarly wired working type lab *****), sometimes on lead walks in certain environments can just wind a dog up with no real outlet for that energy.

[sarged76]

As far as if he is a working type or show type lab, I don't really know he was given to us and we really don't know his bloodline, though we have had him since he was 8 weeks old. We feed him Science Diet Large breed or Science diet Advance fitness. Yes we are kind of a high energy household, my wife and I both work and we have two young kids 9 and 12. Everybody is always coming and going, but it is just us four. So I don't feel like we come and go more than any other family. For the most part, we take the dogs with us when we leave, unless it is places they can't go. Mongo, our high energy lab, seems like he has some right to go everywhere we go and will often push my wife and kids out of the way to go out the door. This is why we started the sit and wait command every time the door opens.

No we don't clicker train. Though I think he would respond very well to it. He has just been so easy to teach "tricks" to we have never bothered. He is able to quickly pick up any trick we teach him from something as easy as sit to picking out a certain object when requested.

As far as his outlets here is some more things we do with him.... We have a dog cube that we use to feed him, we have several Nina Ottoson dog toys, kongs, and we play hide and seek games with his favorite duck.

Unfortunately, on lead walks are about the only walks he can get. As I said earlier we will take him to the park and through the ball for him, but in our neighborhood they have strict leash dogs and I don't really want a ticket. When I have taken him for off leash walks, he is much more calm, unless a dog come near. When this occurs he goes full speed, head on to the other dog, and he don't hear anything I say. This seems to make other dog walkers upset, so I don't let him off leash unless we are at a dog park or somewhere I have his complete attention, ie- chasing a ball.

[Labsrule]

Hello again, I would stop feeding Hills, way too much protien, I had to take my young boy off it and now feed Burns but not sure if you can get that in USA (I am in England). Try to find a good quality food that contains no more than 18 percent protien; if you look at Hills it has, I think from memory, at least 23 percent and tends to make excitable dogs even madder . I'm not saying a change of diet will solve your problems but it may help Mungo to be less excitable. I suspect your Mungo is from working lines; always needing to be busy and needing a job to do and not having one, get frustrated without an outlet to let off steam.

Ideally he needs free running off lead daily to wear him out a bit and an opportunity to play/interact with other dogs. Labs play rough, do you know any other Lab owners you could go out with sometimes to let him go mad with? If you are not able to do this have you thought about training classes that do gun dog work (think it is called bird dog in USA)? You don't have to shoot or even be interested in it but working bred Labs really enjoy this style of training and it does challenge their brains and teaches them self control and helps you improve your handling skills also.

I really think that all those hours shut in a crate are probably the crux of the issue, for a young dog with high energy levels and nothing to do for hours on end it must be very hard for him to deal with. I suspect the weeing problem is a result of this; I could not leave my dogs for such a long time as I doubt they could hang on for so long. It is a shame you cannot find someone to come in and either take him out or at least play with him for an hour. I appreciate it is a very dificult situation as you have to work and you cannot give him the run of the house, is there any doggie day care he could go to a couple of times a week to help with the situation?

I really hope things improve for you and Mungo, best of luck. Sue.

[jacksdad]

Unfortunately, on lead walks are about the only walks he can get.

long leads are your friend in this case, but you will need to work up to them. Really put some time into the loose lead training, some focus work, ie watch me or some thing else to break his attention when he sees or could be about to see something he wants to go after. Even work on his recall while using the short leash. once your have your loose lead walk pretty well down, if he pulls ahead a little, call him back and reward and start building that recall foundation. The more he understands the lose lead concept the more freedom you can give him on the walk to sniff and explore even while on a short lead such as a 6 footer.

once you have some solid foundations with this, get your self a 15 foot lead. Go to a quite place put him on the 15 foot lead and reward the heck out of him when he checks in with you either by looking at you, or actually coming up to you. work on his recall etc. mix up the reward though. don't always use treats. use praise, playing with a favorite toy etc. mix it up so he never knows what he is going to get for coming back to you, but whatever it is it is rewarding and fun for him. If you have a solid foundation with the short lead with walking a loose lead, you may find he walks a lose lead right next too you even on the 15 foot lead. with some work you might even be able to do this in a busy park. but build those foundations first.

I never thought I would ever be able to let my dog off lead, so I worked with him on pulling and focus work first on the short lead, then moved to the 15 foot lead. now we can walks through the parks he stays close but still as a lot more freedom to go sniff, mark, explore almost as if he was off leash. most of the time I just lead it drag. and he even walks a loose "heel" all on his own on and off through the walk. something will catch his nose, he goes sniffs, then comes back and walks right next to me or just a little a head.

But I had to build up to it. you can even work up to a 30 or 50 foot lead where it is safe to do.

IF you try this, you must use a harness. if anything goes side ways and your dog "takes off", and only has a collar when he hits the end of that 15, 30 or 50 foot lead a lot of damage can be done. It took a couple months work to make the transition to use the 15 foot lead where safe, but it was worth it. Jack has fear aggression issues so the concerns about being off lead go beyond typical safety (ie cars and roads) or leash laws.

The really cool thing, and something I wasn't quite counting on is the work with the long leads has actually translated into Jack recently starting to get some brief 100% off lead time. he sticks close, checks in etc. just like when using the 15 foot lead.

[sarged76]

First of all, thanks for all the great advice.

Labsrule,
I work at a vet clinic and have access to pretty much any kind of food. I will check into changing him to something with a lot less protein. We are working on off-lead walks with him, he does absolutely awesome as long as no other neighborhood dogs are around. This is the only time he will run off. Other than that he always comes when called, and never goes very far. The goal though is to be able to not worry about him going full bore head on with other dogs who are being walked in the neighborhood. That don't make for good neighborly relations. The only other labs I know are my parents dogs, Mongo's mother and father, the problem with that is they are not trained at all and will fight with him. So I am forced to do dog parks as much as I can. We currently go a few times a week. After a few hours at the dog park he is completely zonked. I have been looking into different types of training, but from what I can find the bird dog training, which Mongo would love, are very far and they all use live birds. Which is somewhat bothering since we are all vegetarians. I agree that being shut in the crate is the big part of his problem. Regrettably with work I don't have a choice, and working at a vet clinic I though about bringing him with me, but he would still be shut in a kennel all day, and he goes beserk when he is there.

Jacksdad,

As I mentioned above he does great on off-leash walks as long as there are no other dogs around. We are going to take your suggestion and get a fifteen foot lead, and start working more with him this way. We already use the "watch me" command and he will respond to it, until he gets completely overstimulated. Then he don't hear anything I am saying. He will loose leash walk, but like I mentioned above I am not real sure why he overreacts to other dogs. Being that he sees hundreds of dogs at the dog park, and he gets walked 1-2 times everyday. But I will use your suggestion, and basically start from scratch and will work dillegently on recall.

From what everyone is saying is all comes down to stimulation and exercise. I will let everyone know about our progress over the coming weeks.

Dan

[jacksdad]

I know this might sound counter intuitive, but you might consider cutting out the dog park for a little while. Even if your dog isn't reacting from a place of fear, it sounds like you need to work on a new response to dogs. continually placing him in close contact with something that shoots up his arousal levels is making things more difficult for you. good and bad arousal is still arousal. Good and bad stress is still stress. And even a dog with some impulse control issues and belief that all dogs are cool and should be his best bud can use or may need a break to let even "good" arousal and stress levels to go down.

So while your dog may not be behaving out of fear, he could still need a break from other dogs and maybe benefit from keeping some distance and just like working with a fearful dog reward for calm and work your way back to being close to other dogs over time. basically rewarding for calm, self control and impulse control. teach a new response to dogs rather than his current "wooohoooo another dog must run over and say high at all costs".

might not hurt as labsrule suggests to investigate another food. while "high" protien may or may not be an issue, it's not uncommon for commercial dog food to have other additives that could also be suspect in affecting behavior.

[Noobs]

I agree with jacksdad. I am all for lots of exercise, but when my dog was younger I really overdid it by bringing him to the dog park several times a week. He got super excited and it was difficult to call him off dogs once he was in the middle of a chase or a wrestling match. You would be surprised how tired a dog gets by working his brain, so put more emphasis on quiet games at home, clicker training, structured loose leash walks, etc. I found that Murphy did way better at the dog park when there were less than 5 dogs inside at a time. Ideally there would only be one other dog there. He would play nicely and come when called and was very chill.

Going to the dog park too often could result in a dog who is actually OVER-fit, who will require even more exercise later on.

[maxine 23]

Hi Am new here and really glad to have found this site. Have been reading this thread carefully as I have an 11mnth lab who also feels he has to play with every dog he meets. I have been given so many pieces of advise some of which contradict each other so I am finding it hard to know what to do !!

When he was very young I started training him with recall and he learnt very quickly, came back everytime (unless there were other dogs around). For the last few weeks he has been on a long lead in the park and again when there were no other dogs around he was great. The only problem with that was he wasnt really getting a good run and seeing other dogs off leash was very frustrating. So I went with a friend and her dog , we let them off the lead and after a few minutes run around I called mine back , he looked up but decided that playing was more fun than a treat and he only came back when the other dog did.

So I am confused, do I keep him away from dogs ( which is difficult around here) or do I let him run off his excess energy ? Being a working lab I know I need to keep him occupied mentally as well as physically but I am really not enjoying our walks anymore as sometimes he gets so frustrated he starts leaping up , spinning and trying to bite his lead. I have to park him , step on the lead and wait until he has calmed down, all this is getting increasingly difficult as he is getting bigger and stronger every day.

Do hope that some one out there can give me some advice

[Helper and Seeker]

WOW Mongo and Maxines dogs both seem to have the same problems.

Hi Labsrule : Sue I am from the UK too :

Great advice from everyone which is always helpfull.

Okay for both Dan and Maxine, your dogs are both yongsters still and both your dogs have not had very much CONSISTANT training from when they were puppies which is you humans fault big time. Your dogs are the result of your failure

Right now that is out the way how to tackle the issues you both have

Dan : leaving Mongo for 7 hours is totally wrong. Here in the UK we advise a maximum 4 hours for a dog to be left and if the need is over then I always tell them they must get a friend or hire a walker to come in and walk the dog for about 30 mins min.

Dan and Maxine :-

Q1 : What times of the day and how many meals do you feed your dogs?

Q2 : What time of the day/night do you walk on leash your dogs and how many times a day and on which days?

Q3 : What are they ike at bedtime and through the night and what do you wake up to ie: destruction, wee and poo etc

Q4 : Where do they sleep at night and in the day time ?

Q5 : Dan you say Mongo has little respect for your wife and kids
Maxine what is your situation who does your dog ignore? And whats your doggies name ?

Q6 : Are they neutered/spayed not sure what you call it in the states ( had their bits chopped off basically) ?

General advice

The dog park is way to stimulating for both your dogs and should be avoided until other training has been completed.

Food : Low protein as Labsrule suggested. Feed foods that are chicken and fish based and not red meat based.
Include vegetables and rice in their food bowls, it helps bulk it out and is easier to digest.
DO NOT feed completely dry foods ever for a meal so no kibble or science plan UNLESS you have soaked it in water first.
Large breeds get problems with the food swelling in the stomach/gut/digestive track and this can lead to alot of pain and a huge vet bill for the operation.
You can feed denti chews for their teeth or a carrot but just remember to give them the carrot outside as I have a nice orange stain on my carpet

Above all do not despair the issues you have with your family doggie and member will and can be sorted ---- there is light at the end of the tunnel -- promise

Debbie xx

[maxine 23]

Hi Debbie

Answers to your questions-
1. I feed him twice a day about 7.30 am and 6.30 pm
2. Walked most days morning and afternoon - 11am for about an hour and 4 pm for about half and hour.
3. Fine at night settles down with a chew in front of the tv and then sleeps in his crate with no problem and no destruction, wee or poo.
4. sleeps in his crate at night and in the day on a mat or in his crate.
5.neutered at 7mnths

I feed my dog on James Wellbeloved Junior Turkey and rice which I sometimes mix with fresh rice and water.
Thanks for your helpful advice but are you saying that I should avoid his interaction with other dogs for the moment? The only running he gets then will be in the garden when I throw things for him to retrieve, is that enough for a young active dog? The other day I took him for a walk (on the lead) and when we got home he went beserk running around the garden at top speed until he was utterly exhausted!

Regards
Maxine

[Labsrule]

Hi Maxine, at 11 months old your Lab is still very much a puppy in his head and as such is mad keen to meet other dogs and have a jolly good game, all perfectly natural for a Lab, they are very, very social dogs and love each others company. In time he will calm down, mine did but I think all Lab owners suffer in the way you describe.

I would consider swapping him, gradually onto JWB adult food, he doesn't really need the puppy version now, look at the protein content, I suspect it is quite high at over 20 percent? I feed Burns which has a lower protien content; high protien equals hyper dog in my experience.

Could you get him into a good training class? This would help you and him overcome some of your problems and give you more confidenc. Recall when playing with another dog is just teaching him to ignore you; in his mind why would he want to return to you when he is having so much fun with the other dog Try to learn to read his body language, only recall when you know for sure he will return, this sets him up for success and you too. Have some nice smelly treats or his favourite toy to tempt him with and praise big time when he gets it right.

I don't think it is that you have failed with him in your training, Labs are just naturally boisterous and fun loving and very slow to mature and he is behaving true to form for his age so don't give up hope, there is light at the end of the tunnel but you have to be consistant and I think a training club would help you a great deal. Let us know how things go. Best of luck, Sue.

[jacksdad]

maxine it is best to start your own topic even if your issue is similar to an existing one. you never know which direction advice and issues will take and mixing it up with another persons help request can make things confusing


Debbie, back off the chastising. Since you do NOT know a complete history of the dogs and people in question, it has no place here. Telling people right off the bat without knowing a complete history that their dogs are the result of "your failure" is extremely rude and arrogant. It is also NOT the best way to offer help and facilitate learning.