two pronged question

[MPbandmom]

In thinking back on the incident with Sirius and the park official last week, I realize that what I did wrong was not keep her engaged in focus activities on me while the conversation was going on in front of us. The conversation didn't involve me, we were waiting at a distance, and Sirius had been behaving wonderfully. My thought is that the official made eye contact with her, or demonstrated some body language, or vocalization (not percieved by me) that she found threatening. Normally if I am engaged in conversation with a passerby and she is having a problem with it, I have her sit and begin treating her. This normally engages her attention elsewhere, and thus stops her objections to the presence/conversation of the other person.

I have been reading "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons recently and while the emphasis of the book is dog on dog agression, I came across a couple of tidbits in the section on teaching your dog to show calming signs on cue, that indicated they were good things for dogs with people fear issues. One of them I see great potential in but I have some questions as it's use relates to a dog with particular habits/quirks. Which may or may not actually be quirks, which is why I am bringing the subject up here.

The suggestion was to teach your dog to sniff the ground on cue by tossing treats on the ground for them to find. Sirius loves it when I scatter kibble or treats around the yard for her to search for. In fact, she even prefers to eat her kibble off of the floor instead out of her bowl. (quirk? Is there likely a problem with her bowl/fear issues?) She also eats standing up, which I have been told by one friend who has had several dogs, is something she had never witnessed before. Is this related to her fear issues or is the choice of eating standing up or lying down (Sky) a personal preference? She doesn't resource guard food from us at all. She has occasionally tried to take over Sky's bowl instead of eating out of her own bowl, but when told to "go eat your own dinner" she promptly complies. (Sky's bowl is closer to where I usually sit and further away from the wall.) The dogs are fed in the spot where their beds are which used to be where their crates were. (The beds are located under a loft bed with storage containers separating the dog beds, so It is kind of like having a crate without a door and with a very high top. We have considered adding a shelf in the middle to make the top lower, but we have the issue that Sky likes closed in spaces, and Sirius likes open spaces.)

My first question is whether her preference to find food scattered on the floor rather than in a bowl, and her preference for eating standing up, is likely a breed/size quirk/trait, or something related to her fear issues (ready to run/food bowl too deep?) She is an unknown spitz breed. She is about 18" high at the shoulder and 35 pounds. She looks kind of Norwegian Buhund/Elkhound ish.

My second question is whether tossing treats on the ground for her would likely be a better distraction when speaking with people than having her sit and feed her treats from that position. Would it lower her head and focus more and thus if she is triggering on eye contact, greatly reduce or eliminate that as a possible trigger?

Thanks again to all you experienced dog people out there as I try to learn more about this decidely non cat species.

[KatieChloe&Konni]

Hi,

I can only answer your first question from my own expereince. I have owned 5 dogs over a 20 yrs period and only one of them has lain down to eat and she is the most nervous dog I have ever met, so I don't think Sirius is eating on her feet due to nerves. I also worked as a veterinary nurse and most of the dogs in the hospital would stand to eat unless they were very sick or had recently undergone surgery. I guess they simply adopt the pose that is most comfortable in which to eat.
Does Sirius approach her bowl with caution, take food out, run off with it and devour it whilst hiding, or carry the entire bowl to a place of safety? I would be concerned about nerves if she were doing that.

Hope that helps,
K x

[Nettle]

Mine only lie down to eat if they have a bone or a large slab of meat to chew. None of them likes eating out of a bowl much, and one would not eat out of a bowl for the first year of her life.

Some don't like a particular bowl - metal is noisy, plastic can smell bad. It's worth trying with ceramic or toughened glass bowls.

So far as what to do when meeting people goes, I would stand between her and the other person, and if she looks edgy, walk her back (by pushing with your leg not pulling on the lead - VERY important) to a distance where she is relaxed. I don't titbit or acknowledge until the person goes, and then a treat or a scritch on the chest, a few soft words, and off we go again.

But if titbits suit - stick with them. On the ground, from your hand or mixed. Nothing wrong with that at all - just my dogs aren't foodies.

[Sarah83]

Rupert lies down to eat and is an extremely anxious dog. Shadow and Wolf stood to eat their meals and both were very confident dogs. They did lie down to eat bones though. Rupe's actually the only dog I've met who lies down to eat no matter what he's eating or where (small treats excluded, he can eat those in any position).

[MPbandmom]

We use a ceramic bowl. She does occasionally carry off or move the container if it is a special treat, like puppy ice cream, or meat scraps that have been put into something like a paper bowl. Sometimes she carry's it off to move it away, but most of the time it is just to chase it down and bring it back into a better eating position. So, it sounds like Sirius' eating habits are quite normal and fine, and Sky is a lazy or nervous dog. Interesting, just one more tidbit that adds to my theory that Sky has somewhat hidden anxiety issues underneath what seems like being calm and relaxed, or happy go lucky.

Thanks for the input. I may try the dropping treats on the ground for Sirius and see how it goes. I haven't yet figured out all of her triggers. When she is barking at someone as they start talking, or when she growls at someone approaching, or lunges at someone reaching out to her, I understand where she is coming from. Sometimes, she lunges at people though and I'm not really sure why, (They passed us on the right instead of the left? They came up without talking and took her by surprise? They engaged eye contact or did some other unknown offensive body language move? She has had a jogger pass her repeatedly on the trail with no problem whatsoever, and then he stepped off to the side of the trail to take a drink and she started barking at him, now that he was much farther away from her, but in a location where she is not acostomed to seeing people.

The barking and growling I'm okay with because I am warned that she is uncomfortable, and I can remove her, and/or distract her with treats. It's the unexpected lunging that kind of drives me crazy.

[wvvdiup1]

I have stainless steel and plastic bowls for my dog Karma, which it doesn't matter which type of material the bowl is made of, she moves it to a place she is comfortable at eating. I let her go because I know if I'm not comfortable sitting somewhere, I move, too, and I don't expect her to eat somewhere she isn't comfortable. This is also the same for whatever position she eats, whether it is standing or laying down, I don't let it bother me.

It sounds as though your dog hasn't been socialized around people, MPbandmom. Try having her meet a few people at a time, and while you're at it, have your dog socialize with one or two dogs at a time. Award your dog if he or she reacts calmly around people and other dogs. It will take some time, but before you know it, your dog will be confident around people and other dogs!

[Nettle]

Scent has a big impact on dogs, and we can't know what they are smelling. The people they react to may smell of something bad from their past eg diesel, alcohol, drugs, tobacco, or may be ill and so frightening to the dog because dogs are programmed to react to illness in other animals which includes us.

Sometimes, as you say, it is a subtle body language thing, or a person in the wrong context eg half down a hole in the ground, or up a ladder.

[dontpugme]

Maybe it's the shape of the bowl. Is it U shaped or flat? Max finds it easier to eat out of a flat but tall bowl because he kind of uses his tongue to push food to the edge of the bowl and eat it from there. He also prefers it on the ground rather than having the bowl elevated. We used to feed max only dry food (usually i mix dry with wet and add some carrots or rice). He would eat in the laundry room. Max would take some food in his mouth, carry it to where ever we were, and chew in swallow in our plain sight. Then he would go back to the laundry room to repeat.

[MPbandmom]

Okay, I'm adding a third prong. Sirius has yard guarding issues. Barking at people walking past that talk, freaking out, charging the fence, racing back and forth while barking in a frenzy when a dog goes by. Occasional charging a bicyclist that catches her off guard, etc. To combat this I have now put up black plastic along my 5' high fence. There are a couple of gaps at the gate, but for the most part the view is secure.

Her reactions have decreased tremendously. Sky even beat her to reacting the other day when some children ran down the sidewalk in flip flops. But there are still times when she obviously senses something going by that distresses her, usually it is someone walking a dog, or the local outdoor cat. Unfortunately, being not too much over 5' tall myself, I now can't see what she is reacting to either. Yesterday, she freaked out at a taller lady walking by. (my fence is up a step from the sidewalk, so about 5 1/2' of sidewalk blockage. I thought it was because she could see the top of the lady's head. But, today I happened to be looking out of an upstairs window when she walked by, and what did she have with her....a dog.

Is there a way to block her view without blocking my view? Any other suggestions on how to help her with this issue. Some things I can distract her with treats when they pass, but not dogs. She is also more reactive to larger dogs than smaller dogs. She even somehow managed to stick her head through a hole by the gate the other day to meet a yorkie going past. (High temps and dry have shrunk the wood, making some openings a little larger than usual.)

[Nettle]

Block her view as thoroughly as you can, with the understanding that all this is temporary, and when she has relaxed and is more confident, you can restore your view. This is all works-in-progress and there will be an end to it eventually. You may, however, have to compromise on the view, or you may not, but that is all in the future. For now, you need to do whatever it takes to have your dogs calm and well-behaved. It's a long haul but worth it.

[Christie]

In thinking back on the incident with Sirius and the park official last week, I realize that what I did wrong was not keep her engaged in focus activities on me while the conversation was going on in front of us. The conversation didn't involve me, we were waiting at a distance, and Sirius had been behaving wonderfully. My thought is that the official made eye contact with her, or demonstrated some body language, or vocalization (not percieved by me) that she found threatening. Normally if I am engaged in conversation with a passerby and she is having a problem with it, I have her sit and begin treating her. This normally engages her attention elsewhere, and thus stops her objections to the presence/conversation of the other person.

I have been reading "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons recently and while the emphasis of the book is dog on dog agression, I came across a couple of tidbits in the section on teaching your dog to show calming signs on cue, that indicated they were good things for dogs with people fear issues. One of them I see great potential in but I have some questions as it's use relates to a dog with particular habits/quirks. Which may or may not actually be quirks, which is why I am bringing the subject up here.

The suggestion was to teach your dog to sniff the ground on cue by tossing treats on the ground for them to find. Sirius loves it when I scatter kibble or treats around the yard for her to search for. In fact, she even prefers to eat her kibble off of the floor instead out of her bowl. (quirk? Is there likely a problem with her bowl/fear issues?) She also eats standing up, which I have been told by one friend who has had several dogs, is something she had never witnessed before. Is this related to her fear issues or is the choice of eating standing up or lying down (Sky) a personal preference? She doesn't resource guard food from us at all. She has occasionally tried to take over Sky's bowl instead of eating out of her own bowl, but when told to "go eat your own dinner" she promptly complies. (Sky's bowl is closer to where I usually sit and further away from the wall.) The dogs are fed in the spot where their beds are which used to be where their crates were. (The beds are located under a loft bed with storage containers separating the dog beds, so It is kind of like having a crate without a door and with a very high top. We have considered adding a shelf in the middle to make the top lower, but we have the issue that Sky likes closed in spaces, and Sirius likes open spaces.)

My first question is whether her preference to find food scattered on the floor rather than in a bowl, and her preference for eating standing up, is likely a breed/size quirk/trait, or something related to her fear issues (ready to run/food bowl too deep?) She is an unknown spitz breed. She is about 18" high at the shoulder and 35 pounds. She looks kind of Norwegian Buhund/Elkhound ish.

My second question is whether tossing treats on the ground for her would likely be a better distraction when speaking with people than having her sit and feed her treats from that position. Would it lower her head and focus more and thus if she is triggering on eye contact, greatly reduce or eliminate that as a possible trigger?

Thanks again to all you experienced dog people out there as I try to learn more about this decidely non cat species.

I donot like those at all I made the mistake of using that on my Cocker Spaniel Tobe on the advice of a Tainer at Pet Smart This was like 15 years ago because I was so nieve but that seemed to be the only thing I would use at the time to control Toby but I will never never use 1 of those again.