Any Advice For Improvement?

[Buddy'smyboy]

Here's some basic info on my dog before I begin:

My dog's name is Buddy. He is a purebred yellow lab and at his last vet check up (two weeks ago) he weighed 96.6 pounds (and that was after he slimmed down a bit). He's tall, and pretty big boned (I measured his neck for trying out a collar... at the base of his skull it's 21" circumference). He's six years old and the vet thinks he has mild arthritis in his back legs (in particular, his left hind leg). He has a submissive nature and was the most submissive pup out of his litter.

Here's some basic info on me:

I'm thirteen, 5'1". My family- my sister, mother, and I- recently moved in with my grandmother since my dad divorces/refuses to complete divorce process/ditched us. I've been pretty much the only person his whole life to work with him at our old house, and even then it was at irregular intervals because of our schedule (and because our dad didn't like him so didn't want him around much). Now, I can work with him everyday, and I have. I spent about six hours in one day learning everything I could on dog behavior and then put it to the test (for about the past three weeks, and it has worked wonders). Oh and about our grandma's house, the yard is not completely fenced in.

Training Buddy has had:

Buddy can- sit, stay, come, lay down, drop (objects and toys), bee-beep (move aside), stay out of the house, no pee in the garage, and heel on a leash. He has his own dog bed which he stays on while in the garage. He has also been desensitized to chasing chickens, and can freely walk through our chicken coop without the slightest problem.

His correction word is "No", and this works well.

Buddy is an outdoor dog, and we don't let him in the house. The house is OFF LIMITS and he knows it.

He is also a self feeder, which I've heard is quite rare for a lab, so I just put a pan of food out there for him. Still, when I give him his food, I make him sit, lay down, and stay until I'm done setting it down, and I also put a little people food on it (like packaged cheese) and eat that to imitate the alpha eating first (I have no idea if it has any mental impact on him but whatever, I do it).

When I take him on a walk, I only walk him around the house in the yard and I make him heel the whole time to set boundaries. We've seen a few rabbits and a mole or two, and although he's chased them in the past while off leash and before I started actively training him, the most I've ever gotten out of him was a few steps towards the rabbit and when I corrected him he immediately heeled again.
I've walked him a few times down the road while on a leash just to see how he will do since there are minature horses and other dogs and he does pretty well. (We only go outside the yard once a week to make sure he doesn't consider it his territory). If he tries to stop and sniff something that I didn't authorize as alpha, I correct him without stopping and we move on. If he tries to mark without "permission" I also correct him in an attempt to show him that he doesn't own the road or anything on it and must keep following me. If he still doesn't want to follow I stop, turn around and move into him to force him back and make eye contact until he looks away to try and communicate to him that he doesn't make the decisions before we move on again.

My mom can walk him and he comes to my grandma if he calls her, but my sister (age 10) is the most horrible person for an alpha position EVER (high pitched voice a constant, visibly nervous even to me, hesitant, doesn't want to get dirty, doesn't want to get near him, question asking rather than comman giving, etc.)

Exercise:

He goes on two to four walks around the yard daily (depends on how busy our day is) and I also play fetch with him with his deflated soccer ball about two times a day (at one point it was new, but his mouth was so big he could fit it around it and his teeth eventually poked a hole in it ). Throughout our game of fetch, I will periodically tell him to sit to reinforce obediance and I end all of the games if he's looking tired even if he keeps pestering me for more.


Problems:

BIGGEST problem- When he gets distracted by something, he has trouble coming when off leash. For example, one time when I was playing with him off leash in my grandma's front yard to see how he would do, after about the sixth toss he fetched it, turned direction half way to me and headed for the driveway. I called him, and he didn't listen since he was sniffing something and then proceeded to go out our long-ish driveway and I ran to catch up to him before calling him again in an excited voice in an attempt to come back. This time he came, but the problem is evident I believe.

Buddy goes towards loud noises. 3rd of July at my g-ma's he ran away since our neighbors unexpectedly set off a bunch of fireworks. We got him back fortunately a few days later. Then when my grandma was sitting out on the porch with him petting him, one of our neighbors started shooting his gun. Buddy got up and took a few steps towards the gun shots. My grandma called him back and fortunately he came, but I would like to know if it would be possible to dull this instict/impulse a little.

Not a big problem, but sometimes he whines a lot when we're not outside with him (he stays on a long leash on the front porch). I suppose just simply correcting him everytime he whines might work.


Okay, I hope that was enough information and if it was too much and too detailed, sorry, but I'm an all out ten-paged-report type of writer Mainly I just want to get some outside opinions as to how I'm doing with him and possible to solve some of his problems. Please give me some advice if you have any.

[Fundog]

First of all, Buddy sounds like a very nice dog, with lovely manners. Second: Ditch the "alpha" nonsense. It has absolutely no purpose, because you are a human, and Buddy is well aware of that fact. Buddy also has absolutely no desire to be "the boss" of your family, or to replace your father. So, now that Buddy is a perfectly grown-up gentleman of a dog, you might want to ease up on all of the strictness of your training-- honestly, it's a bit militaristic-- and start thinking up ways to infuse Buddy's life with a bit more FUN, FUN, FUN!

There are a couple of good threads about having fun with our dogs over on the Diet, Health, and Exercise page. Have a look through those, and start sparking your own imagination.

As for his reaction to sound, particularly gunshot, it sounds to me as though Buddy may have once been a hunting dog, or at least has hunting lines in his breeding. Did you know that Labrador Retrievers are commonly bred to be gun dogs? They are used to hunt various species of game birds, such as pheasant, doves, quail, partridge, etc. They are also excellent rabbit hunters. You may find this information helpful in thinking up fun things to do with Buddy, and it would also explain his previous tendency to chase rabbits, which you seem to have successfully taught him to control.

[Buddy'smyboy]

First of all, Buddy sounds like a very nice dog, with lovely manners. Second: Ditch the "alpha" nonsense. It has absolutely no purpose, because you are a human, and Buddy is well aware of that fact. Buddy also has absolutely no desire to be "the boss" of your family, or to replace your father. So, now that Buddy is a perfectly grown-up gentleman of a dog, you might want to ease up on all of the strictness of your training-- honestly, it's a bit militaristic-- and start thinking up ways to infuse Buddy's life with a bit more FUN, FUN, FUN!


Well, the alpha bit is due to the fact that for the six years of his life he has had little guidance and socialization and had a few problems before I trained him about 3/4's of those commands I listed including making him heel, though granted I have recently started to loosen up more.
As for fun, I wish it were that simple We live far out in the country so "Go three blocks and you'll hit the local dog park" doesn't exactly work. Plus, my grandma's just back from the hospital and is now on an oxygen machine so we can't get out at the moment. And as much as I would really love to GO BUY HIM A STORE of fun dog toys, I unfortunately cannot legally drive and even when my mom can somehow manage to buy half of Walmart when getting groceries, she somehow misses the dog section

I would love to walk him all the way down our long side road, but my mom doesn't want me to take him out of the yard in case he does get loose and wanders away. She does say that once her bad leg is better we'll start walking (well, actually it's BOTH legs that hurt; her right when she's standing and her left when she's sitting). Fat chance that'll happen soon unless I can pursuade her otherwise. (btw, any idea why fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing? I've always wondered that and I just thought of it as I wrote fat chance )

There are a couple of good threads about having fun with our dogs over on the Diet, Health, and Exercise page. Have a look through those, and start sparking your own imagination.

Okay, I'll check those out, and maybe I'll be able to find a way to make a home made dog toy.

As for his reaction to sound, particularly gunshot, it sounds to me as though Buddy may have once been a hunting dog, or at least has hunting lines in his breeding. Did you know that Labrador Retrievers are commonly bred to be gun dogs? They are used to hunt various species of game birds, such as pheasant, doves, quail, partridge, etc. They are also excellent rabbit hunters. You may find this information helpful in thinking up fun things to do with Buddy, and it would also explain his previous tendency to chase rabbits, which you seem to have successfully taught him to control.

No, he never was a hunting dog, if anything he's a terrible bird dog (afterall, all of our chickens are still alive). The dad of the family that we got him from (our cousins, in fact) does like to hunt quite a bit, so maybe he heard gunshots while he was little or his parents were bred from hunting dogs.

Thanks for your advice, I'll try to loosen up some more and if you have any further advice on making him come better that would be really helpful.

[jacksdad]

just to echo fundog, try and add fun to your dogs' and your life when working with your dog.

on walks, sniffing and marking are ok. it's how dogs explore their world and leave info about them self. it's good mental exercise for your dog to sniff around.

if buddy can heel, he should be able to walk a loose leash or learn to really fast. loose leash incase you don't know is when the dog walks close, but not in a heel but not pulling either.

you can then teach a "ok we are walking" and when you give that cue, buddy walks with you, then after X amount of time or distance, you give a "free time" cue, and then it's your job to keep the leash loose while buddy sniffs around and marks and gets to explore and be a dog.

for recall, check out this tread viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7155

and for loose leash, look here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=858

lastly, 13? really? pretty impressive the way your have stepped up and taken responsibility for buddy. nice going.

since you indicate you are willing to do research, I would highly recommend pickup this book.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... h-your-dog

I think I will help you get a more balanced perspective for your work with Buddy.

[Nettle]

Being good with chickens means he has been trained to be good with them. Doesn't mean he wasn't also a bird dog.

You can have fun with him laying scent trails for him to follow (do a Search here for details) and as he is a labrador, how about teaching him to retrieve? When he gets really good at it, you can make him sit, hide some retrieve items and send him to search out and fetch them. He'll love that.

The free feeding has got out of hand. He is WAY too fat. This will make him ill. You need to cut down his rations and supplement with raw vegetables like carrot, cabbage, cauliflower, that he can chew up. They will keep his jaws busy and his tummy full without putting on more weight. Also, research the kong toy, and see if he can have some of his food in one or two of those, so he has to work for his food.

He sounds lovely, and a lucky dog that you are looking after him so well. Do stay with us and update us of his progress.

[Fundog]

Meanwhile, here's some help finding some of those old, but quite inspiring threads about having fun with your dog:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3657

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4324

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4324

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4993

[Buddy'smyboy]

Being good with chickens means he has been trained to be good with them. Doesn't mean he wasn't also a bird dog.

He works well with ducks, chuckers, chicks, and pheasants too. Which is good because they run from him a lot... unless we're talking about our rooster Sterling. He's about six inches tall and weighs half a pound and he's always trying to fight Buddy He's either really dumb, or really brave, or who knows maybe it's both. So far Buddy just looks at him like he's crazy.

You can have fun with him laying scent trails for him to follow (do a Search here for details) and as he is a labrador, how about teaching him to retrieve? When he gets really good at it, you can make him sit, hide some retrieve items and send him to search out and fetch them. He'll love that.

He can retrieve to a small degree. Our most fun retrieving game is, "Try to find the yellow flashy ball in the super tall grass in the fenced in portion of the yard after I throw it and bring it back." It sometimes takes him up to ten minutes to find it, but when he does he gets so excited and happy.

The free feeding has got out of hand. He is WAY too fat. This will make him ill. You need to cut down his rations and supplement with raw vegetables like carrot, cabbage, cauliflower, that he can chew up. They will keep his jaws busy and his tummy full without putting on more weight. Also, research the kong toy, and see if he can have some of his food in one or two of those, so he has to work for his food.

No offense, but are you talking about? Buddy is perfectly healthy and not over weight at all. He's just above average size (not fat, just big). Like, for example, when we brought him home he was two months old and he weighed twenty pounds, and after that he gained ten pounds a month even with regular feeding and exercise. His mom was broad shouldered and barrel chested while his dad was tall. He just got the best of the two of them (which added up to a really big Buddy). Actually, he has an older brother who's even bigger than he is. It's just his genes.

He sounds lovely, and a lucky dog that you are looking after him so well. Do stay with us and update us of his progress.

Can do Speaking of which, I do think I'll have to work a little more on keeping distractions under control. This morning the first thing we saw out of the garage was a rabbit. That wasn't the problem, he did just fine, but then when we got out onto the road we met some trouble. The neighbors just across the road opposite from us on the right have two big rottweiler crosses behind a semi fenced in yard and just to the left our neighbor there has two dogs (a medium one and a medium-large one). All four of them were out and the neighbor dogs from the left were on the road.
Normally I would have been a little nice and introduced them, but not only were the owners not around and all the dogs male, but the two big rotties have chased me on my bike before and of the two from the left, one has barked and growled at me before for just walking by on the road and the other has attacked Buddy.
Buddy was pulling on the leash and trying to get to them so I blocked him with my body to get him back under reasonable control but he still pulled a little.
So basically what I'm saying is that we went back in our own yard and just walked around the house about ten times instead of a walk. I feel like I did the right thing in this case, but does anyone esle agree/disagree with that?

[Fundog]

Yes, you did the right thing.

[Nettle]

There is no tactful way to tell someone their dog is too fat so sorry if I annoyed or upset you, but, ninety plus pounds is FAR too big for a labrador no matter how big his bones are or how big his relations are. How tall is he? Can you feel his ribs easily? Does he have a waist if you look down from above?

If so, he ain't a labrador - you probably have a mastiff!

In comparison, an average male Foxhound should be 26-27" tall and 75lb weight. These guys have big bones too.

So please don't feel I have insulted your dog - I'm just as keen to help him as everyone else.

And you did very well indeed.

[jacksdad]

good call on the rotties and nice work getting back to your house.

[Buddy'smyboy]

just to echo fundog, try and add fun to your dogs' and your life when working with your dog.

on walks, sniffing and marking are ok. it's how dogs explore their world and leave info about them self. it's good mental exercise for your dog to sniff around.

Ok, that's good. Besides, my mom walks really slow bum leg or not so he'll have plenty of time to sniff around once she can get walking.

if buddy can heel, he should be able to walk a loose leash or learn to really fast. loose leash incase you don't know is when the dog walks close, but not in a heel but not pulling either.

you can then teach a "ok we are walking" and when you give that cue, buddy walks with you, then after X amount of time or distance, you give a "free time" cue, and then it's your job to keep the leash loose while buddy sniffs around and marks and gets to explore and be a dog.

for recall, check out this tread viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7155

and for loose leash, look here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=858

Alright, that sounds good, I'll go check out those threads.

lastly, 13? really? pretty impressive the way your have stepped up and taken responsibility for buddy. nice going.

since you indicate you are willing to do research, I would highly recommend pickup this book.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... h-your-dog

I think I will help you get a more balanced perspective for your work with Buddy.

Yeah, I'm only 13. And okay, I'll try to get that book

[Buddy'smyboy]

There is no tactful way to tell someone their dog is too fat so sorry if I annoyed or upset you, but, ninety plus pounds is FAR too big for a labrador no matter how big his bones are or how big his relations are.

If I can get a hold of a camera, I will post a gallery of pictures of him for you. 96.6 pounds or not, he is not a fat dog. You may judge for yourself.

How tall is he? Can you feel his ribs easily? Does he have a waist if you look down from above?

Well, I can't get him to stand still long enough for me to properly measure his height at the shoulder , but it's somewhere between 25 to 29 inches. Yes, I can feel his ribs. Yes, he has a clearly defined waist. And yes, though this wasn't a question of yours, the vet himself does not think he is over weight. The vet, in fact, has said himself that he is big boned, and that he is actually a little thin in his haunches (though that is likely partly due to his arthritis). And when I look at the "How To Measure How Obese/Not Obese Your Dog Is Chart" in the vet office, he's in the "Normal" weight category according to appearance (in fact, he actually dropped down from a slightly heavier category). Even my mom, and all my close family (and I have some really honest family members) do not think he is fat when I asked out of curiosity, so it's not just me trying to defend an obese dog, because I've seen people like that on dog TV shows. So, if he is indeed a fat dog, he is very good at hiding it.

And you did very well indeed.

Ok, whew, I'm glad I thought I did, but I wasn't completely certain.

Oh and another thing, um, how can I get him to come better? I was out playing fetch with him in the front (on a long leash, one of those extending ones) and he had to stop to got potty but after he finished he started to wander away a little and sniff at stuff as he headed toward the driveway again and completely forgot about the ball. When I called come, he didn't come until I tugged on the leash. I'm thinking it was because he smelled rabbit or the neighbor dogs who were in the yard early that morning. Any ideas on how to solve this problem/ make it less of a problem?

[Jenna316]

I don't have any advice to add to all the great input you've had here, but I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your dedication to your dog, especially at your age. Yellow labs are a favorite of mine. I'd love to see a picture!

My brother-in-law is a huge lab fan and has owned several throughout the years. When you said yours weighed 90+ pounds, it put me in mind of his purebred chocolate lab. Alex tipped the scales at 92 pounds and was very fit. Like your Buddy, he was just very large for his breed.

Keep up the great work, you're doing great! And I'm eager to read the advice you get on the "come" command question you asked - it's something I struggle with as well with my dog.

[jacksdad]

Oh and another thing, um, how can I get him to come better? I was out playing fetch with him in the front (on a long leash, one of those extending ones) and he had to stop to got potty but after he finished he started to wander away a little and sniff at stuff as he headed toward the driveway again and completely forgot about the ball. When I called come, he didn't come until I tugged on the leash. I'm thinking it was because he smelled rabbit or the neighbor dogs who were in the yard early that morning. Any ideas on how to solve this problem/ make it less of a problem?

checkout that pesky little recall thread I linked above

here it is again > viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7155

one quick tip though....Unless you are REALLY sure he will come when you call when he is otherwise checking out a dead animal, a really cool smell, another dog, bird, cat, pile of poop etc, don't call him. That just teaches him to ignore you. Go get him and gently lead him away. us plain humans are BORING compared to some of the really cool things out there. IF he does come, be sure the reward is well worth the leaving whatever it was he was checking. rewards can start out as food, and over time become just your praise.

check out that thread and follow the tips and your will increase the chance of your dog coming when called. no recall will ever be 100% and there are just some things you will NEVER be able to compete with. One time my dog and I ran into 5 fresh hamburger lunches all laid out waiting for the soccer players to finish their game....not even worth trying to use commands, nothing about me or the treats I was carrying could compete with 5 Fresh meaty meals left unattended. I ended up picking my dog up and walking way, at 18 pounds, that was an option. we both got a good laugh out of it. or as close to a "laugh" as dogs get. there was no need to punishment/correction/teaching lesson etc. he hadn't done anything wrong.

last piece of advice I will toss out is, learn to listen to your dog. they will tell you things that can save you a lot of grief if you learn to pickup their little signals and communication methods.

[Buddy'smyboy]

I don't have any advice to add to all the great input you've had here, but I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your dedication to your dog, especially at your age. Yellow labs are a favorite of mine. I'd love to see a picture!

Thank you I have always adored animals, especially my boy Maybe my Uncle Donny will come down and take pictures of Buddy for me if I ask him. He used to take pictures for a football team when he was the coach (though he's bummed like my mom only with his back, so he can barely move ).

My brother-in-law is a huge lab fan and has owned several throughout the years. When you said yours weighed 90+ pounds, it put me in mind of his purebred chocolate lab. Alex tipped the scales at 92 pounds and was very fit. Like your Buddy, he was just very large for his breed.

Well, Buddy's not an incredible athlete (like agility or something like that), so he does have a thin layer of fat over his muscles, but since labs are dogs bred to go into cold water regularly for birds that's natural anyway (at least from what I've read). I've started walking him a little further and I can tell it's tiring him so he's getting his muscles working. I'm sure if I started riding my bike with him he might trim off a little more of that light fluff, but first I have to get him from pulling when he sees other dogs. Any advice on that?

Keep up the great work, you're doing great! And I'm eager to read the advice you get on the "come" command question you asked - it's something I struggle with as well with my dog.

I know! Once they get that nose going it don't stop. It must be the hunting instincts bred into them to track down game. I wonder if a whistle would work? It's a brief, loud, and unique noise that would be hard to miss, especially if he associates it with something yummy. Plus he could hear it from quite a distance.