Correcting?

[Midget]

Im reading just aobut anything i can find about positive dog training.
Im trying to follow the rules and tips and its not goind so bad.
Every single video on youtube though is using an already trained dog.
So the question that comes up is what exactly does correcting mean?
Yelling?Just saying NO in a strict voice? or reapeating lets say moving the object your dog is biting again and again and again till it gets the picture?

Im really having a hard time "correcting" the puppy .Im sure im doing something wrong.
Im practicing the strict voice thing but sometimes i get pretty mad and yell, that makes me and the puppy feel bad and im sure we wont make any progress by this way.

I hate it, but seriously i cant find anywhere what to do. I mean visually. Everybody just says correct the puppy for this correct it for that..etc etc.

I know,she is still young, but is it really that stuborn too?

Thanks, any help would be wonderful! specially for the puppy!

[Nettle]

I don't believe in "correcting" a dog and as for a puppy - well we don't correct human babies do we? We distract them, and we arrange their lives so that they can't do the things we don't want them to do. That's just how it is with dogs.

Dogs don't understand "correction". They know you are cross, but they don't know why, they know you make sounds but those sounds have no meaning to a dog until it has been trained to associate something with them. If you said "marmalade" every time instead of "dinner" the dog would come running expecting its food when it heard "marmalade".

So - rather than correct, understand life from the dog's point of view, and where the dog's intent and your wish don't coincide, arrange the environment so that the dog wants to do what YOU want it to do. Instead of telling it when it is wrong, show it how to be right.

That's an overview. Please do give us some specifics and then we can help more.

[Mattie]

Im reading just aobut anything i can find about positive dog training.
Im trying to follow the rules and tips and its not goind so bad.
Every single video on youtube though is using an already trained dog.
So the question that comes up is what exactly does correcting mean?
Yelling?Just saying NO in a strict voice? or reapeating lets say moving the object your dog is biting again and again and again till it gets the picture?

Im really having a hard time "correcting" the puppy .Im sure im doing something wrong.
Im practicing the strict voice thing but sometimes i get pretty mad and yell, that makes me and the puppy feel bad and im sure we wont make any progress by this way.

Why are you correcting your puppy?

I hate it, but seriously i cant find anywhere what to do. I mean visually. Everybody just says correct the puppy for this correct it for that..etc etc.

We don't tell you to correct your puppy, all that does is confuse your puppy and you will have a very unhappy puppy.

I know,she is still young, but is it really that stuborn too?

No she isn't stubborn, she doesn't understand what you want because you haven't taught her.

If you were in a room with someone who didn't speak your language and you didn't speak their's, they wanted to cross the room and sit on a chair, they ask, you don't understand so they hit you. You will be very confused because you didn't understand them. The ask again, you still don't understand but try to work it out, you sit down were you are, you get hit again. You gradually by trial and error, with being hit every time you get it wrong, work out that you had to cross the room and sit on a chair. Success, you don't get hit. This is what it is like for your puppy.

If this person had helped you understand by leading you across the room and pointing to the chair, you would have understood right away and wouldn't have been hit so many times.

This is what it is like for pups and dogs when they are trained by corrections.

[junebug]

A correction does not have to be physical. Saying "Ah ah!" to grab a pup's attention when they start peeing on the carpet is a correction. I think the word "correction" just has a negative connotation. In my opinion at least, it simply means you are letting the dog know that their behavior is not acceptable. And that absolutely does not mean we have to be inhumane about it. Turning your back on a dog that jumps at you is a correction. Ending play and walking away when a pup nips you is a correction. Stopping all movement when a dog pulls on the leash is a correction. It is simply communicating, "no, that's not the behavior I want." Words don't even need to be spoken. It's usually best if you say nothing at all! Yelling and shouting and getting frustrated isn't going to send the dog the right message and just might be even more damaging.

You do need to teach the behavior that you DO want, of course. For example, ignoring a dog that jumps on you is all fine and dandy, but you also need to praise them when they are not jumping so that they also have an understanding of what the right behavior is. But dogs, especially puppies, make "mistakes" and I don't think it's beneficial to just let the behavior go unchecked. If I catch my dog stealing food from the counter, you bet I am going to intervene! Simply clapping my hands would be sufficient enough. But it's a correction.

Just my opinion. But I really do think it's just the word that conjures up images of people yelling at, hitting, or alpha rolling their dogs. And it doesn't have to be that way.

[emmabeth]

Mm...

Im inclined to disagree - a correction implies that it tells the dog what the 'correct' thing to do is - which in the way its used in dog training is not true. Whether its a 'no' or an 'ah ah' or a leash pop ... I dislike the use of both the word, and the concept of 'correcting' because thats not what is happening.

Distracting - yes - so call it that.

Calling it a correction, with the implication that the action of saying no, ah ah, or harsher methods such as a leash pop or a nose smack is correcting the dogs behaviour to what it should be, is therefore misleading.

A time out, turning your back on a jumping dog, stepping out of the room when a dog nags for attention - this is neither a distraction NOR a correction, this is a 'non-reward' its a negative punishment.

It also does not correct the behaviour because it doesnt tell the dog what the correct behaviour is.

Both distractions and negative punishment will aid in extinguishing unwanted behaviours but this is done in conjuction with something else, because alone... a distraction will rapidly become ignored if it is not followed up with a redirection, and negative punishment used alone whilst it may extinguish that specific behaviour, wont stop the dog seeking another way to get attention/earn the reward they are after. So the behaviour will pop up again, in a modified format.

It may seem like im being nit-picky here, but day after day I answer questions from people who are utterly confused, frustrated and even angry with their dogs, because THEY think they are 'correcting' the behaviour but they are not, at best they are momentarily distracting, at worst they are punishing, sometimes heavily, with little or no actual attempts made to show, encourage and reward the behaviour they DO want. If we can quit using terms either associated with harsher methods or misleading, like correction, we can all be much more easily understood.

[Wicket]

To add with Emmabeth said, here's article called "Stopping negative behaviors positively."

Midget, I, too, would like to know how I can help you (if you want/need it). What's going on?

[Mattie]

Good post Em, this is why I hate labels on dogs and their behaviour, it gives the wrong impression. When someone tells you to "correct your dog", punishment does come to mind because that is us humands thinking.

But dogs, especially puppies, make "mistakes" and I don't think it's beneficial to just let the behavior go unchecked. If I catch my dog stealing food from the counter, you bet I am going to intervene! Simply clapping my hands would be sufficient enough. But it's a correction.

I find it much better if I give my dog a command of what to do than use a distraction like clapping my hands, especially for my new dog who is still learning the house rules. She not only puts her front paws on the counters but jumps onto them, if I give the command "Off", they obey I am able to reward them, the next time they are much easier to obey the command "Off".

[Midget]

Lots of lovely answers,thank you. I dont know where to start! I'll try describing better what exactly is going on.

Why are you correcting your puppy?

Midget, I, too, would like to know how I can help you (if you want/need it). What's going on?

First off is what i am "correcting" the pup for.Well thats simple, i dont want her on the bed for example and when she does i say NO, and DOWN. Sometimes i have to remove her by myself. (question: if bed is off limits,couch must be too?)
If she is chewing unstoppable, i want to correct her, i give her her toys but when she is hyperactive she just goes down to the nibbling again. I have removed all the things i dont want her to chew on so she is starting on the furniture. When she is making her mistakes i want to "correct" her. When she bites, i try to correct her.

NOTE: i never hit the pup i just get relly really angry and that is what i want to change.

I've tried the distraction part for the chewing but as you guys said, if you dont give him a good thing to do he will just igrnore you.
So she used to respond to clapping and funny noises and all of that,now she just ignores me:D
I've tried a little drum which she responds good too. I know,its hilarious and maybe too much xD

As for the biting, at first i placed her in a room for a time out, but that made her more playfull, so now im the one being placed in a room. When i do so, she follows me and yelps at the door, i come out when she stops. That seems to be working.
Then i read a link to an article i found here about puppy inhabinition(if thats the word?). So i got confused To bite or not to bite? I tried to do both. I let her nibble on me and when she gets rough i go for a time out.
The guy in the article said that if a puppy does not learn the strength of its jaws he will grow up to be a heavy biter. It sounds reasonable to me. I decided to let her nibble and cut it down slowly. Is this right?

I do want to apply all the stuff you told me and i have done most of them. I think the thing with my uneffectiveness was the logic part you highlighted for me..."correction is to show what you want" .

Before i started answering i had some time with her trying to apply this. It did work
Part of my anger comes from the human part of me saying: "oh please just let me have some coffee and i will be there for you in a sec!" or "come on Ziggy, i just want to sleep! you had all day to chew up our apartment!"

She does need to be walked more effectivley, cause i do walk her, but i havent taught her to run off the leash yet and there isnt any place near my house safe enough to just let her run. I play catch in the house to run her a bit till we get to the no leash point. We are currently working on the "listening to my name outdoors" part so we have a road ahead xD

Thank you guys

[Wicket]

Does your puppy know what "down" means? Have you done any training with her on this word?

[Sarah83]

And are you using the word down as a cue for her to lie down? If so you either need to find a different word for that or a different word to use when you want her to get off something. I've somehow taught Rupert that "shift your ***" means to get off whatever he's lay on I originally taught "off" by having him up on the couch or bed, tossing a treat so he had to get off to get the treat and saying off as he did so. I'm not quite sure how that's morphed into shift your *** though.

[maximoo]

"NO", "DOWN", "OFF" let's review these words from training perspective
"NO" has no meaning to a dog--trying to get a dog to do something different/opposite (stop chewing, get paws off me) by saying "NO" will always lead to failure of what you want him to do. Avoid using the word "NO" instead teach the dog the command you do want.
"OFF" means paws on the floor--get "OFF" the bed, get "OFF" me etc
"DOWN" means to lay down.

When pup is on bed & you throw 3 different words at him he had no idea what you want. Stand by bed point ot he floor say "off" make sure pup has a space to go to on the floor(some people stand in dogs way) Stay calm don't yell at him, & once he is "OFF" praise /reward GOOD BUY/GOOD OFF. Prevention is worth a lb of cure as well so keep bedroom door shut whenever you are not in the room.


When pup is chewing something like furniture,shoes, etc call pup over to you, (Ziggy, COME,) when he comes give additional command such as 'sit', or 'down' then praise/reward. The last action he did is the one he remembers thats why you need to give the additional command. Its to disassociate chewing the furniture (or other undesirable behavior) with a reward. He will remember sitting (or "DOWN) = yummy treat. It also prevents pup from ignoring you when you make sounds. He will know when he is called & given a command he will get a treat.
When you cannot supervise put pup in a crate or behind a baby gate with a stuffed frozen KONG or raw meaty bone. Other times tether him to you so he can't dash off to chew furniture. You can also try bitter apple spray (sold at petstores). Most dogs will not touch what has bitter apple on it. However there are exceptions & some dogs do not mind it at all. But you'll never know till you try. If pup is deterred by it, you must respray daily. Using it 1x is not going to deter him for long. You must spray daily for a few weeks till its really ingrained that the furniture is disgusting to chew on. You can also use bitter apple on most every other object.
Good Luck!

[Midget]

Does your puppy know what "down" means? Have you done any training with her on this word?

Good point xD

And are you using the word down as a cue for her to lie down? If so you either need to find a different word for that or a different word to use when you want her to get off something. I've somehow taught Rupert that "shift your ***" means to get off whatever he's lay on I originally taught "off" by having him up on the couch or bed, tossing a treat so he had to get off to get the treat and saying off as he did so. I'm not quite sure how that's morphed into shift your *** though.

My country's (Greece) language isnt english so we have another word for "lie down", another for get off the bed, another for go down the stairs although go down with get off comes from the same word used differently...go figure.

Thats where the saying "It's all Greek to me" comes from i guess

But i think Wicket hit the spot with the training. Some things are so obvious yet not done xD
I'll try to start training it to her with no yelling involved..

@maximoo: you answered while i was posting so i read it right before i submitted. Really nice tips, i totally "forget" to praise her when she does get off cause im focused on my anger. I will train myself xD
Thanks

[emmabeth]

I keep forgetting that English isnt your first language - becuase your English is actuallyr eally really good!

Do you want her on the couch? If you do, then thats fine even if shes not allowed on the bed. Shes smart enough to know that the bed is not the couch and the couch is not the bed.

If you teach her that she must not get up unless she is invited up, adn she must get off when she is asked to get off - then there is no problem.

I think we all struggle with our own anger and frustration at times, there are times, like the other day when one of my dogs opened the (switched off) oven door and stole a cheesecake id spent hours making.. that I would dearly like to kick or strangle mine! Obviously I dont, but I DO have to step away, count to ten (or sometimes a LOT more) and remind myself that he hasnt done it to wind me up, upset me, spite me or anything likethat. Hes done it because hes a dog and the opportunity was there, and whose fault is it that the opportunity was available? Mine. It is just a matter of practice and habit and you will find once you chill out and relax a little and stop getting angry, actually your dog will behave much better anyway. They DO pick up our our emotions and it does affect them!

[Mattie]

Lots of lovely answers,thank you. I dont know where to start! I'll try describing better what exactly is going on.

Why are you correcting your puppy?

Midget, I, too, would like to know how I can help you (if you want/need it). What's going on?

First off is what i am "correcting" the pup for.Well thats simple, i dont want her on the bed for example and when she does i say NO, and DOWN. Sometimes i have to remove her by myself. (question: if bed is off limits,couch must be too?)

It is much better to prevent her from getting on the bed by keeping the door closed, when she does get on, instead of saying no, down or removing her yourself, walk out of the room and call her, when she follows, lots of praise for her then you can go back in and close the door.

She needs to be taught the command "Off", this is very useful for many things and also to learn to lie down on command, you need a different word for this.

If she is chewing unstoppable, i want to correct her, i give her her toys but when she is hyperactive she just goes down to the nibbling again. I have removed all the things i dont want her to chew on so she is starting on the furniture. When she is making her mistakes i want to "correct" her. When she bites, i try to correct her.

What is the point of correcting her when she doesn't understand why, instead you need to redirect her to a behaviour you want. One of her normal toys doesn't have the high reward that the chewing does so it is pointless to use one, you need something that has a higher reward, an toy kept just for this or call her from another room and reward her for coming etc. Dogs need to chew, if you remove all the things she can chew she will go for the furniture.

She doesn't make mistakes, she can't because she doesn't know what you want, dogs don't think like us humans, it is us that make the mistakes by not teaching our dogs what we want of them.

NOTE: i never hit the pup i just get relly really angry and that is what i want to change.

I've tried the distraction part for the chewing but as you guys said, if you dont give him a good thing to do he will just igrnore you.
So she used to respond to clapping and funny noises and all of that,now she just ignores me:D
I've tried a little drum which she responds good too. I know,its hilarious and maybe too much xD

The main problem of using punishment to correct a problem is the dog gets used to it so you need to up it to something worse as you have found out, you upped it to a drum, not very nice for your dog and it didn't work.

He isn't ignoring you, he hasn't been taught what you want.

As for the biting, at first i placed her in a room for a time out, but that made her more playfull, so now im the one being placed in a room. When i do so, she follows me and yelps at the door, i come out when she stops. That seems to be working.

Good, this shows that she will learn if you teach her properly.

Part of my anger comes from the human part of me saying: "oh please just let me have some coffee and i will be there for you in a sec!" or "come on Ziggy, i just want to sleep! you had all day to chew up our apartment!"

If you taught her what you wanted you will be able to have some coffee and sleep,

[Mattie]

I think we all struggle with our own anger and frustration at times, there are times, like the other day when one of my dogs opened the (switched off) oven door and stole a cheesecake id spent hours making.. that I would dearly like to kick or strangle mine! Obviously I dont, but I DO have to step away, count to ten (or sometimes a LOT more) and remind myself that he hasnt done it to wind me up, upset me, spite me or anything likethat. Hes done it because hes a dog and the opportunity was there, and whose fault is it that the opportunity was available? Mine.

The other evening 2 of my neighbours came in bringing a bottle of wine, we sat in the conservatory leaving the dogs the house. Dolly didn't appreciate this so kept trying to open the door by jumping up. When I went to open the door I couldn't, Dolly had locked the door.