Loose leash walking question

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Smiles
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:30 pm

Loose leash walking question

Post by Smiles »

Hi all!

I have been browsing this forum for some time, and I have learned a lot about training my Boston Terrier, who is wonderful as a whole but has a few issues that we're battling at the moment. I've been trying Mattie's loose leashing walking method as of today. I just got this new harness: http://www.wiggleswagswhiskers.com/news ... arness.htm that allows me to hook a leash on both the back and the front for added control, or either one alone. Previously, I was using a Sporn Mesh No-Pull Harness and attempting to work the 300 Peck method, which worked quite well until he saw another dog or a really interesting bush to sniff- then it didn't seem any use at all. I think a root of the problem is that he just wants to go faster than I can walk, as when I run with him, he doesn't pull on the leash. However, I must admit that I'm not quite in shape enough to run for the entire duration of the walk, though I'm certainly working towards it. He also doesn't pull at the end of a very long walk when he's tired.

Anyway, I took him out walking in an empty parking lot about half a block from my house. I spent about ten or fifteen minutes doing the "walk, wait for his head to move in front of my hip, drop the leash to my left hand, and turn" routine. In a way, it seemed like it was starting to work- I could certainly walk further without having to turn at the end of the time than at the beginning. However, I think I'm doing something wrong. When I turn, he frequently lags behind, and I feel tension on the leash. Sometimes this only lasts for a second and he catches back up with me, but other times he just stops and stares in our original direction- the opposite of the one I turned toward when he stepped in front of me. I sometimes ended up sort of tugging him along behind me for a few steps, followed by him catching up with me, stepping ahead, then turning around and repeating the whole leash tension- tug process again. If I understand properly, the thought behind this method is that there never be tension on the leash. What am I doing wrong? I want to correct my mistake before it hurts my dog's training, as I have made errors before (used Don Sullivan's plastic pinch collar- ouch!) and regret them very much.

Any advice you all could give would be much appreciated, and I hope I've been clear enough for you all to understand me. Thanks so much for your help!
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Noobs
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Noobs »

Well congrats on changing your training method and thanks for coming on here and asking for clarification.

A few questions:
How long have you been doing the the loose leash walking training? A week or two? More?
How long do you usually train and how often? (e.g. twice a day for 15 mins each, etc.)
At which point does he start to lag behind enough for you to have to tug him? From the get-go? Five minutes after you start? Ten?

It sounds like you're physically doing the right things. He could be working it out like, "Uh...we were just there, why are we going back?"

When you do this training, do you talk to him? Do you give him any verbal cues or praise?

When you turn, you could try saying "Let's go" in a happy voice to get him to follow. If you turn around and he's looking at your face, give him praise for focusing on you.

Maybe the harness is uncomfortable and rubs him the wrong way when you turn to go the other direction.

You could do any of the following:

Shorten the duration and increase the incidents of the training - 3 times a day for 10 minutes instead of 15. He could be getting bored or maybe even worn out mentally.
Change it up - when you turn, walk backwards and talk to him happily. Instead of back and forth, try circles, figure 8s, make it more fun.

I'm just throwing these out there. Sounds like you definitely have the right idea with the training though.

More details please, and we'll figure it out.
Smiles
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Smiles »

Noobs wrote:Well congrats on changing your training method and thanks for coming on here and asking for clarification.

A few questions:
How long have you been doing the the loose leash walking training? A week or two? More?
Thanks so much for replying! I started trying LLW with the Sporn and the other method a couple months ago. It sort of worked, but as I said, if he saw anything too interesting he went ahead and pulled. I was worried that even though the Sporn harness looks soft and gentle, it has moving parts and must make him uncomfortable to work. I started up with Mattie's method yesterday. I know that it will take time to work; I just wanted to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong and messing up his training.

Noobs wrote:How long do you usually train and how often? (e.g. twice a day for 15 mins each, etc.)
Before, with the old harness and method, I was trying to go on an hour-long walk each day. That had kind of fallen off with the hot weather, though, as I do worry about him overheating as a Boston. It's quite warm here during the day, and he has a history of heat strokes from when he was with his previous owner. Now I think I'll go for three ten minute sessions each day- better for his focus and his temperature!
Noobs wrote:At which point does he start to lag behind enough for you to have to tug him? From the get-go? Five minutes after you start? Ten?
Probably around the five minute mark? It was definitely worse when there were things he was tugging towards in the original direction, like my neighbors he wanted to jump on (another issue we're working on- I'm thinking of hiring a trainer for that one!)
Noobs wrote:It sounds like you're physically doing the right things. He could be working it out like, "Uh...we were just there, why are we going back?"
This makes sense- he probably thinks, "Stupid human! Don't you know that there's good stuff that way? Why are we turning?"
Noobs wrote:When you do this training, do you talk to him? Do you give him any verbal cues or praise?
I hadn't been really, although I do when training other things.
Noobs wrote:When you turn, you could try saying "Let's go" in a happy voice to get him to follow. If you turn around and he's looking at your face, give him praise for focusing on you.

Maybe I'll try this- seems to make a lot of sense.
Noobs wrote:Maybe the harness is uncomfortable and rubs him the wrong way when you turn to go the other direction.
This is possible, though I chose this harness because it supposed to be comfortable and had velour under the arms instead of the regular nylon. I was worried about something like the EasyWalk rubbing, especially when we start to run.
Noobs wrote:Shorten the duration and increase the incidents of the training - 3 times a day for 10 minutes instead of 15. He could be getting bored or maybe even worn out mentally.
Change it up - when you turn, walk backwards and talk to him happily. Instead of back and forth, try circles, figure 8s, make it more fun.

I'm just throwing these out there. Sounds like you definitely have the right idea with the training though.

More details please, and we'll figure it out.
I will definitely take all these suggestions to heart! Thank you so much Noobs- your posts about Murphy have very much helped me in dealing with the leash reactivity issues he's had, which while not healed, are definitely improving, I think. I'm off to try again before the sun gets any warmer!
MPbandmom
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by MPbandmom »

In looking at the picture of the harness you are using, I would recommend watching out for rubbing where the buckles are.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
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Mattie
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Mattie »

I have been browsing this forum for some time, and I have learned a lot about training my Boston Terrier, who is wonderful as a whole but has a few issues that we're battling at the moment. I've been trying Mattie's loose leashing walking method as of today. I just got this new harness: http://www.wiggleswagswhiskers.com/news ... arness.htm that allows me to hook a leash on both the back and the front for added control, or either one alone.
I don’t like those harnesses that go round the chest like that, it encourages dogs to push into the strap to pull their owners along. I prefer the straps to go either side of the neck, it is more difficult for a dog to push into.

Also, looking at the picture of the harness it could be too close to the front legs and may cause rubbing.
Previously, I was using a Sporn Mesh No-Pull Harness and attempting to work the 300 Peck method, which worked quite well until he saw another dog or a really interesting bush to sniff- then it didn't seem any use at all.
The 300 Peck method never worked for me, my dogs seemed to fill their tummies on treats and would stop working. :lol:
I think a root of the problem is that he just wants to go faster than I can walk, as when I run with him, he doesn't pull on the leash. However, I must admit that I'm not quite in shape enough to run for the entire duration of the walk, though I'm certainly working towards it. He also doesn't pull at the end of a very long walk when he's tired.
A dog’s normal pace is a trot, you rarely see dogs walking, they have to learn to walk next to us and stay balanced, many dogs are not balanced when walking. With the loose lead walking dogs also have time to learn how to balance. We don’t go fast enough for dogs, they pull because we are too slow for them.
Anyway, I took him out walking in an empty parking lot about half a block from my house. I spent about ten or fifteen minutes doing the "walk, wait for his head to move in front of my hip, drop the leash to my left hand, and turn" routine. In a way, it seemed like it was starting to work- I could certainly walk further without having to turn at the end of the time than at the beginning. However, I think I'm doing something wrong. When I turn, he frequently lags behind, and I feel tension on the leash. Sometimes this only lasts for a second and he catches back up with me, but other times he just stops and stares in our original direction- the opposite of the one I turned toward when he stepped in front of me. I sometimes ended up sort of tugging him along behind me for a few steps, followed by him catching up with me, stepping ahead, then turning around and repeating the whole leash tension- tug process again. If I understand properly, the thought behind this method is that there never be tension on the leash. What am I doing wrong? I want to correct my mistake before it hurts my dog's training, as I have made errors before (used Don Sullivan's plastic pinch collar- ouch!) and regret them very much.
Your dog should be playing catch up when you turn, which is what is happening, if we don’t turn early enough or fast enough we do jerk our dogs but if they have a harness on it won’t do any damage.

No matter what you do some dogs can’t turn quickly enough, I also use my voice by saying “This way” in a high, happy voice, as I turn, this comes in handy later when my dogs are off lead and I want to change direct.

Personally I would go back to the Sporn harness.
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meggit
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by meggit »

when practising the loose lead walking i allways say "this way" to buddy in a very happy voice and now that i let him off lead it has come in really usefull as he will just turn and follow me so if you can use a verbal cue when you change direction, keep practising it really does work :D
Zoeypuppy21
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Zoeypuppy21 »

Noobs wrote:At which point does he start to lag behind enough for you to have to tug him? From the get-go? Five minutes after you start? Ten?
Probably around the five minute mark?
Smiles replied: It was definitely worse when there were things he was tugging towards in the original direction, like my neighbors he wanted to jump on (another issue we're working on- I'm thinking of hiring a trainer for that one!)
Something to help with the tugging in opposite directions is the command "Watch Me". When you see a distraction coming your way stop, take a treat and bring it in front of your Boston's nose and drag it up to your face (this way he sees that you have a treat) while doing this say "Watch Me". After he looks at you give him the treat. As soon as you give the treat get another. Bring it from his nose back up to your face again and say "Watch Me". Repeat this as many times ad needed until the distraction passes. I also know that alot of times distractions will not always be moving in the opposite directions. When you can not wait for a distraction to pass I would show him you have the treat and tell him to watch you (like mentioned above). Keep telling him to watch you and walk by the distraction. Give him a few treats while you walk by, especially at the beginning of the training. The main idea behind this technique is to keep your dog focused on you. A few tips that I have discovered are: Make sure you keep the "Watch Me" super happy that way your Boston will want to look at you. Sometimes you might want to bend over in order to get closer to your dog. At the beginning use lots of treats. As the training continues you can slowly add more space between treats.

I hope this helps with the distractions! I have found it to be really helpful. In a nut shell just distract your dog to look at you! I know this may be a little confusing so please ask questions :)
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Mattie
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Mattie »

Zoeypuppy21 wrote: Something to help with the tugging in opposite directions is the command "Watch Me". When you see a distraction coming your way stop, take a treat and bring it in front of your Boston's nose and drag it up to your face (this way he sees that you have a treat) while doing this say "Watch Me".
Watch me is really useful for for a dog to do for many situations especially if you have a dog reactive dog but when teaching a dog to walk on a loose lease, stopping to get your dog or "Watch me" and/or give a treat breaks the loose lead walking training and the dog looses concentration. You need to use your voice to encourage your dog to keep going forward with you and only reward when the training has finished.

It is much better to continue walking and give your dog a command as you turn like "This way" which is also useful in other situations as Meggit says.
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Smiles
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Smiles »

Thanks to everyone who posted for your help! I did start saying, "This way," as I turned and this has made a world of difference. He's rarely lagging behind now- really only if there is something super interesting to watch or listen for in the other direction. I can also see that we're able to go quite a bit further before needing to turn.

I also want to say that I was initially concerned about the harness rubbing- I took an EasyWalk back to the store for this reason. However, this one doesn't come as close to the underarms as at looks in the pictures- it's really about an inch back. The material there is velvet instead of nylon like the rest of the harness to also help with rubbing. Even so, I'll be sure to check there and around the buckles and such to be certain there is no irritation.

I do have a question, though. I know that the point of this exercise is just to keep him at a loose leash, not a heel. However, while doing this method, he is always behind me. When can I let him start walking ahead?

Thank you all so much for everything! I appreciate learning from you all!
MPbandmom
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by MPbandmom »

This method kind of does both. Do you really want your dog walking in front of you? I find it is much easier to make turns and such when the dog is at heel. (or close thereto) Otherwise I tend to trip over the dog, have to stop and get the dog to come back, turn around in a circle to get where I want to go and such. Plus a dog walking beside you is just more in tune to what you are doing in general. More focus = more fun on walks for both of you.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
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Mattie
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Mattie »

Smiles wrote:
I do have a question, though. I know that the point of this exercise is just to keep him at a loose leash, not a heel. However, while doing this method, he is always behind me. When can I let him start walking ahead?
He is were he wants to be so he can watch you and what you are doing. If he is too far behind you need to encourage him to come closer with your voice.
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Noobs
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Re: Loose leash walking question

Post by Noobs »

Smiles wrote:
I will definitely take all these suggestions to heart! Thank you so much Noobs- your posts about Murphy have very much helped me in dealing with the leash reactivity issues he's had, which while not healed, are definitely improving, I think. I'm off to try again before the sun gets any warmer!
Hey, best of luck, and be sure to come back here and post updates!

If you're having issues with the jumping up, try doing a new post, maybe we can help you before you spend money on a trainer. I'll tell you what, this forum has saved me probably thousands of dollars in money I don't have for trainers! :D
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