To muzzle or not?

[suttonsue]

I have a rottie/collie cross, looks like a rottie but with a longer snout and a white chest. See below. I've had her for a year now although she is around 4 years old and although she is very obedient with me, she takes a dislike to some dogs and not to others. So I never know when to put her back on the lead when we are out on park walks. She goes to Doggy Day care two half days a week to get her used to various other dogs. She tolerates other dogs there but will bark and chase some away if they come bounding up to her. Other times she is happy to have them sniff her and her to sniff them, then goes and plays ball happily with them, taking her turn and giving way when need be. I'm worried about muzzles because she needs to have her mouth open quite wide to pant. see below


We have given up on training classes however because she becomes fixated on some other dogs and will lunge and bark at them and is unable to concentrate at all. I've tried all sorts of ways to get her back to me, using watch me and distracting her with treats but to no avail.

She is a rabbit/squirrel chaser and has killed a couple in the past and I was worried that she might go after a smaller dog in the same way. So to be on the safe side my friend has suggested that she wear a muzzle on our off lead walks. I have been told to get a basket one but on a couple of sites it says that they should not be unsupervised so this rather negates the reason for having one on her as it is to give her the freedom of off lead, yet not be a problem for other dog owners and the rabbit/squirrel population. Do you think this is a solution? To date my method has been as follows.

See a dog in the distance coming towards me - if same size as her and also off lead, let them greet each other. She might bark at it but she always follows me if I continue walking.

If other dog is small, I put her on lead until past it. She doesn't got after anything that has gone past. If small dogs comes up to her she might lunge and air snap at it or might tolerate it. I never know.

If other dog is old, I put her on a lead again. If it eyeballs her, she is likely to retaliate, if it averts or ignores her, she will ignore it.

I would really appreciate any comments.

[Lorrie]

She is beautiful & good picture!! I have an unpredictable dog also, and therefore she cannot be trusted off leash where we will encounter other dogs, ( she does get to run free in the openness of fields or the beach) Until you have worked through the unpredictable issues, I would not "reward' her with being off leash around other dogs. Always remember, you can not know the other dogs and if they have issues, so why chance serious consequences? And it is my understanding that a muzzle should always be supervised (under your control) and used only for training.

[jacksdad]

what a gorgeous dog.

I've had her for a year now although she is around 4 years old and although she is very obedient with me, she takes a dislike to some dogs and not to others.

Generally speaking this isn't a problem. we humans tend to have unrealistic ideas that our dogs must automatically like and get along with every dog they encounter and be able to run off into the sunset playing together. problem is not all dogs are "nice" for a variety of reasons or simply not well behaved. dogs have lots of subtle body language that without a lot observation and practice we miss out on a whole bunch of dog / dog communication. your dog could just be picking up on body language that makes her uncomfortable with said dog.

However, because of other things you post, I would feel fairly safe to say it's more than that.

Is "to get her used to various other dogs" the only reason you have her in doggy day care? if so, you might consider dropping doggy day care for a while and "socialize", in terms of other dogs from a distance. let her see and be around other dogs at a distance rather then be "forced" to interact with them.

Based on what you are sharing it sounds like she is a bit low in the self confidence area with other dogs and a bit conflicted how she feels about strange dogs. which is why she "acts out" sometimes and not others. When she acts out, she is just trying to pass on the message "I am tough, don't come closer", when odds are inside she is saying "oh no, oh no, dog is getting closer". If this is the case, places like doggy day care or dog parks can make her even less predictable and less tolerant of other dogs.

what I would recommend is for a while, forget the "forced" up close socialization (ie doggy day care and/or dog parks). see if that calms her down in terms of other dogs. If there is any doubt about how she will respond to another dog, keep her on a lead. And when another dog approaches, change directions. turn go the other way, make a sharp right or left turn head off in that directions, weave off to the side to allow greater distance between you and your dog and the on coming dog, place your self between your dog and the on coming dog as you pass etc.

If your willing to do things like that, and not leave her to deal with other dogs by her self, you can try not going to the muzzle particularly if the only thing driving the muzzle question is because she has killed the odd rabbit/squirrel. Remember, dogs are hunters and since you do not describe an out of control indiscriminate killer dog, you can be pretty confident your dog can tell the difference between a rabbit or squirrel (prey) and a small dog, ie not prey.

My dog is significantly more reactive towards other dogs than you describe for yours. Given the choice, he wants as little to do with the vast majority of dogs as possible. Even when he was full on attacked a couple months ago, when given a choice did not continue in the fight. The point I am getting at is he does not attack other dogs for the heck of it even though he has issues with other dogs. He distinguishes between rabbits, ducks, and squirrels and other dogs and behaves different towards them. there are members on this board who let their dogs hunt and report no issues with their dogs distinguishing between prey and other dogs (not prey).

If you think your dogs needs more then just being lead away, there are several of us dealing with dog/dog issues (often described as "aggression" or reactive towards other dogs) and I am sure we can come up with some good strategies for you.

[emmabeth]

If you are worried and it makes you feel more comfortable, then the right sized Baskerville style muzzle would be fine for her, when they say not to use it unsupervised, what they mean is 'dont leave your dog home alone wearing this', for walks its fine, she is supervised, you would be by her side in a few seconds if she got caught up or something.

From what you say though I don't think theres any real need to use a muzzle on her, I think she is well aware of the difference between a small dog and a squirrel/cat/rabbit.

I would echo Jacksdads advice I think - quit the daycare for now, walk her on a harness with a long leash trailing so you have more control, work on her recall too using this, but shes not totally trapped by being on a leash.

You seem to know how to manage her pretty well, so I would think if you can train her to step behind you on command (fairly easily done with practice) when shes on the lead, get her recall nice and sharp when out and about, and boost her confidence in you and in herself in general via clicker training and various games, you should be fine.

Clicker train her around the house and garden and it doesnt really matter what you work on, its the process of the training itself that can be so helpful in boosting confidence. If she has more confidence in you she wont need to react to certain sorts of dogs on walks!

[suttonsue]

From your replies there are two things I'd like to try and comment upon. I think I'll take up another post title on the one issue - Doggy Day care rather than going over it on this post. I have bought two books, Turid Rugaas, calming signals and Scaredy dog by Ali Brown. When I read particularly the calming signals I noticed that it showed, more often than not, how a 'secure' dog intervened by various signals between two possibly insecure and lack of street cred dogs to calm them down. It was all about how well adjusted dogs acted towards those who weren't secure. What I would like and I daresay everyone would like, is for my dog to become one of those well adjusted dogs. Is this ever likely to happen or do I just assume that she prefers me to other dogs and is past learning the signals? And if she was wearing a muzzle when she has come out of squirrel bashing and comes across other dogs on her path, is the muzzle likely to be a problem with her trying to send signals to other dogs and make her worse because she's had one of her defences taken away from her, even if she is off lead? I should say she very, very rarely goes towards another dog in the near distance, it's usually the ones that come up to her and then it's not always a problem.

From the other book Scaredy Dog I have taken on board two training aids, one of which is to keep saying her name in different tones, from daft, soft voice to angry voice and each time giving her a treat. It evidently needs up to 5000 repetitions for the dog to immediately turn to you in whatever voice you say their name for a treat and distract them from their possible reaction to another dog. Secondly targeting a pointing finger or open palm by clicker training and treating. i've clicker trained horses in the past and have found it the best way to mark the required behaviour, better than voice, though that comes later with a cue. Then moving around the house calling, touching and treating, then outside, eventually to ensure an immediate distraction recall. As she is a great ball player possibly a tennis ball would distract her better. I'll now start the doggy day care post separately.